Sciencemadness Discussion Board

alum reacts with steel

vmelkon - 7-1-2016 at 13:30

Does this make sense. The information is on this site and a friend wants to know if it works:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=2765

Of course, I could give it a try since I have aluminum potassium sulfate.

Or is that food grade stuff ammonium aluminum sulfate. This stuff is a little acidic.

careysub - 7-1-2016 at 14:08

I have used boiling in potassium alum to dissolved a steel tap embedded in a block of aluminum. It left the threads that had been cut intact, and saved the part.

blogfast25 - 7-1-2016 at 14:09

Quote: Originally posted by vmelkon  


Or is that food grade stuff ammonium aluminum sulfate. This stuff is a little acidic.


ALL aluminium salts are a little acidic:

[Al(H2O)6]<sup>3+</sup>(aq) + H2O(l) < === > H3O<sup>+</sup>(aq) + [Al(H2O)5(OH)]<sup>2+</sup>(aq)

Food grade or not...

[Edited on 7-1-2016 by blogfast25]

DraconicAcid - 7-1-2016 at 14:14

Blogfast, I think the OP thought the food-grade ammonium aluminum sulphate would be more acidic due to the ammonium ion, not because of the food-gradeness of it.

Anyway, the aluminum ion is much more acidic than the ammonium ion.

blogfast25 - 7-1-2016 at 14:19

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Blogfast, I think the OP thought the food-grade ammonium aluminum sulphate would be more acidic due to the ammonium ion, not because of the food-gradeness of it.

Anyway, the aluminum ion is much more acidic than the ammonium ion.


I didn't see the ammonium in that question (just woke up).

Like you said, makes no difference though in terms of acidity.

Ka for Al<sup>3+</sup>(aq) = 1.4 x 10<sup>-5</sup>
Ka for NH4<sup>+</sup>(aq) = 5.6 x 10<sup>-10</sup>

http://bilbo.chm.uri.edu/CHM112/tables/KaTable.htm

[Edited on 7-1-2016 by blogfast25]

vmelkon - 8-1-2016 at 06:48

Thanks dudes.
So, it sounds like almost any aluminum salt would do the job.
I assume the reaction produces iron hydroxide or aluminum hydroxide in the end.

blogfast25 - 8-1-2016 at 07:15

Quote: Originally posted by vmelkon  

I assume the reaction produces iron hydroxide or aluminum hydroxide in the end.


In a nutshell, yes.

vmelkon - 31-1-2016 at 04:45

I tried it.
At first, there were tiny bubbles stuck on glass walls and iron. This was possibly hydrogen.
After 1 week, some Fe(OH)2 was visible on the bottom of test tube.

After another week, there is quite a bit of white precipitate. It is amorphous. It is possibly Al(OH)3 but the solution looks colorless. Weird.