Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Fluorinert FC-40

MrHomeScientist - 6-1-2016 at 08:53

I was recently (extremely) lucky enough to become the recipient of a large quantity of a very interesting substance, Fluorinert FC-40: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Electronics_NA/E...

Fun Facts:
- An electrically insulating liquid used mainly for cooling electronics (by convection).
- True to it's name, it's very chemically inert.
- It is capable of dissolving large amounts of gases. Because of this, it was used in the movie The Abyss as the underwater oxygenated breathing liquid. It was actually breathed by a rat in the movie, but the actors used special effects instead (since the rats tended to die a few days after breathing it).
- It's viscosity is about the same as water and it's colorless, but it is almost twice as dense as water. Hefting the little jugs I have is very surprising.
- BP range of 150 - 175 degrees C

I now have several liters of this liquid, and would love to find some interesting uses for it. Applied Science made an interesting video where he used it to fry a potato chip. My first hope was to use it as a dense solvent for the potassium synthesis (see the stickied thread), but the boiling point appears to be too low. Any ideas for fun projects that require an inert, dense, nonpolar solvent?

blogfast25 - 6-1-2016 at 09:46

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
My first hope was to use it as a dense solvent for the potassium synthesis (see the stickied thread), but the boiling point appears to be too low. Any ideas for fun projects that require an inert, dense, nonpolar solvent?


That would be a bad idea. K is capable or ripping F from these molecules and quite exothermically too!

Similar stuff has been used as mild fluorinating agents, e.g. conversion of metal oxides to metal fluorides, at fairly high temperature.

Generic example:

6 MeO + C6F14 === > 6 MeF2 + 6 CO2

Beats using F2 or chlorine fluorides, in terms of safety! :cool:

Think e.g.

7 Nd2O3 + 3 C6F14 === > 14 NdF3 + 3 CO2 + 15 CO


[Edited on 6-1-2016 by blogfast25]

Bert - 6-1-2016 at 10:12

I could see some exciting reactions with finely powdered. Mg, Al or alloys...

Mechanical uses for buffers/inertial dampers?

blogfast25 - 6-1-2016 at 10:15

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
I could see some exciting reactions with finely powdered. Mg, Al or alloys...



Considering just how vigorous both these metals react with PTFE (Teflon) and that we're dealing with a fairly low boiler, those reactions might be difficult to contain. :o

MrHomeScientist - 6-1-2016 at 10:25

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Similar stuff has been used as mild fluorinating agents, e.g. conversion of metal oxides to metal fluorides, at fairly high temperature.
...
7 Nd2O3 + 3 C6F14 === > 14 NdF3 + 3 CO2 + 15 CO

Since this is a fairly low boiling solvent, how would such a fairly high temperature reaction be done practically? High pressure, sealed container?

blogfast25 - 6-1-2016 at 10:34

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  

Since this is a fairly low boiling solvent, how would such a fairly high temperature reaction be done practically? High pressure, sealed container?


A tubular reactor contains the target oxide and is heated to a suitable temperature.

A boiler containing the FC-40 is attached to it and heated till it starts boiling. These vapours are thus lead over the heated oxide. Control vapour delivery by heat input to the boiler.

Post-reaction, a simple condenser separates any unreacted FC-40 from the carbon oxides.

There's a fluoridation reaction of UO2 to UF4 ('green salt') with a Classic CFC in the library's Brauer ('Handbook of Inorganic Preparations').

An interesting one could be CuO to CuF2, as one is black and the other green. And CuO isn't the stablest of oxides (in terms of EoF), so success is 'guaranteed'.


[Edited on 6-1-2016 by blogfast25]

unionised - 6-1-2016 at 11:23

Just a quick thought, look out for COF2 and HF as potential by-products.

blogfast25 - 6-1-2016 at 12:04

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Just a quick thought, look out for COF2 and HF as potential by-products.


HF? There's probably no H in the FC-40...

MrHomeScientist - 6-1-2016 at 12:25

Indeed, it's claimed to be fully fluorinated. Nothing but C's and F's. But potassium could rip it apart? I was under the impression that fluorine bonds were very hard to break.

blogfast25 - 6-1-2016 at 14:16

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
Indeed, it's claimed to be fully fluorinated. Nothing but C's and F's. But potassium could rip it apart? I was under the impression that fluorine bonds were very hard to break.


They are but:

(CF2)n + 2 n K === > 2 n KF + n C

... is still exothermic @ STP by about - 50 kJ/mol of K.

Teflon stirrers bars have been shown to be blackened in the KOH/Mg reduction.

[Edited on 6-1-2016 by blogfast25]

blogfast25 - 6-1-2016 at 18:37

Other applications could be as a highly inert, aprotic, non-polar solvent in some organic reactions. The BP would allow for some really hot refluxing. But no specific examples really jump to my mind...