Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Strike anywhere matches from safety matches

moonclub - 20-8-2006 at 02:02

Few mounts ago I have made some strike anywhere matches from safety matches - NaClO3 + P (red) and little water. I can ignite it anywhere (glass, wood, paper, skin), but they are not safe. Falling from 10 sm on glass cause ignition. 0,005g composition per one match.

Deceitful_Frank - 20-8-2006 at 09:15

and?

YT2095 - 20-8-2006 at 09:20

I think that`s IT.
(s)he`s sharing this "Idea" with us.

moonclub - 20-8-2006 at 10:45

That "Idea" is not so bad. Natrium chlorate is better than KClO3, but matches must be in a dry and cool place. They are too sensitive to be really useful, but I like it.

agent_entropy - 20-8-2006 at 20:06

You might try using perchlorate instead of chlorate, it will probably be a lot safer as perchlorates tend to be much more stable than chlorates.

12AX7 - 20-8-2006 at 20:21

But then, you don't really get the "strike anywhere" reaction. :(

Tim

moonclub - 20-8-2006 at 21:59

The red P, mixed with any usual oxidiser is too sensitive. It's harder, to dissolve KClO3 or KClO4, than NaClO3. NaClO3 contains more O, but is more hygroscopic.

YT2095 - 21-8-2006 at 00:33

a little bit safer method would be the one outlined here: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how20/7308716ca54f8010vgnvcm100...

for the outside coating, you may use NC laquer instead, it also gives them a more water resistant quality.

moonclub - 21-8-2006 at 04:01

Just see the video - striking match on my own hand.

http://moonclub.by.ru/Clip(5).3gp

YT2095 - 21-8-2006 at 04:36

ya ne vidu spichka, gde eto?


В руку, где... А внешне практически не отличается от обычную.

Het, izvinitye: 404. Документ не найден.

mozhet ploho link?

I Tozhe, ya ne (vsem ne) govorit(esh) mnogo po russki :)


[Edited on 21-8-2006 by YT2095]


http://moonclub.by.ru/ - там находится файл Clip(5).3gp - чтоб открыть нужен quick time player или другой.

spasibo, eto robata :)
no, ya vidu ne s 3gp?

kakoy .3gp?



PLEASE CONTINUE THIS BY U2U!!

[Edited on 21-8-2006 by chemoleo]

moonclub - 21-8-2006 at 06:07

Use quick time player to open the file.

YT2095 - 21-8-2006 at 06:26

good point Chemoleo, sorry each.

I don`t have Quicktime player, and so cannot see this. but I must say that lighting a match on your hand is Crazy! esp homemade sorts and with such a volatile/unpredictable mixture.
in 100, 99 may work fine and them one will hurt you :(

moonclub - 21-8-2006 at 09:03

0,005г is not so much :)

YT2095 - 21-8-2006 at 10:15

still, it is not a risk I would wish to take (I have Pain allergies).

IIRC, Phosphorus sesquisulphide is used in the stike anywhere types nowadays, although where you get this or even make this I don`t know.
I`m assuming it`s a little more stable as a compound than the raw RP and Chlorate with binder mixture though.

I`ve had plenty of sucess with home made matches in the past and in different flame colors similar to bengal matches, you may wish to try these also :)

FullMetalJacket - 21-8-2006 at 16:13

Neat. I will have to try this.

halogen - 22-8-2006 at 19:05

Alternatively, one could imbue matchsticks with a soluble metalic salt (copper cloride?) for colouring effects.:P

DeAdFX - 22-8-2006 at 21:44

You will need a chlorine donor + replacement of oxidizer. Sodium Chlorate will dilute any sort of blue/green color from the copper.

FullMetalJacket - 22-8-2006 at 22:12

Quote:
Originally posted by DeAdFX
You will need a chlorine donor + replacement of oxidizer. Sodium Chlorate will dilute any sort of blue/green color from the copper.


Bit of powdered PVC would sort that out though.

12AX7 - 22-8-2006 at 23:28

Sort out sodium yellow???

That seems unlikely...

Works fine with KClO3 though, the coloring.

Tim

Brie - 23-8-2006 at 17:02

I remember one of my friends trying the popsci-article method to make arrow heads. I'm going to assume that since he has all his limbs he hasn't gotten around to firing them at anything yet...

nitro-genes - 24-8-2006 at 04:33

Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
Sort out sodium yellow???

That seems unlikely...

Works fine with KClO3 though, the coloring.

Tim


Hehe, even the smallest presence of Na+ will make pure blue or green impossible indeed. I finally got some ammoniumperchlorate today, for making some blue light comps, but I was very disappointed to see that it burned with a slight yellow flame in the flame test. :( (Is this normal?!)


Btw, if you think KClO3 + red P is too sensitive you can also replace half of the red P by sulpher, like is used in toycap compositions. Always use enough water though, I found that pure KClO3 + red P can explode from friction even with a decent amount of water present! So a "little" water aint going to do it...;)

YT2095 - 25-8-2006 at 00:06

I do the sulpher mix also, the RP has to be in the smallest amounts possible, or put on the outside later as a seperate coating entirely, and even then you only need to do the very Tip of the match.

I am curious as to a technicality though, does KClO3 and RP mix actualy Detonate, or just burn very quickly?

Beaters - 7-11-2006 at 12:47

Quote:
Originally posted by YT2095
I do the sulpher mix also, the RP has to be in the smallest amounts possible, or put on the outside later as a seperate coating entirely, and even then you only need to do the very Tip of the match.

I am curious as to a technicality though, does KClO3 and RP mix actualy Detonate, or just burn very quickly?


This has been the subject of considerable discussion in pyro circles for years. May depend on howthe word "detonation" is defined. It definitely explodes in very small quantities.

In any case this is very hazardous stuff because of its extreme sensitivity. Look up "Armstrong's Mixture" and "Union Torpedoes" in other forums. I don't have the exact citation at hand, but you might find Charles Nelson's patent from ca 1880 of interest -- see USPTO web site. Many people were killed and injured manufacturing and transporting these toys way back when.

SRStafford - 7-11-2006 at 19:51

I am not sure, but i remember reading somewere that adding sulpher to ANY red P mix actually increases sensitivity.

nitro-genes - 8-11-2006 at 08:26

"somewhere"? :)

Sulfur and red P are used together in many toycap compositions. I tried a couple of them and found that using only a small percentage of red P reduces sensitivity somewhat. Mixtures of sulfur and chlorate alone need a rather strong hamerblow, whereas using 5:1 sulfur/red P needs something bigger than a small tap and using red P alone as a fuel will make it very susceptable to even the smallest taps with a spoon...

quicksilver - 9-11-2006 at 07:31

Both Konske (1998) & Shimezu (1997) report that KCLO3 / P / S can be determined to explode @ 3200mps. KCLO4 / Al / Sb2S3 with most any det initiation can be measured @ 31-3200 mps thus if the study is confined to the specifics listed and the definition is VoD rate it does detonate. Residual particulate is such that the breakdown of starting material would also indicate detonation. The PGII published the symposiums from WinterBlast wherein the subject was reserched from French studies before WWI that clearly indicate that chlorates detonate...however, there are some folks who have strong beliefs that detonation is more that VoD and byproducts of an explostion. but given that the studies quoted were done with unconfined material a lot of the skeptics didn't follow up on their opinions that a det cap itself influences the overall measurment of speed, etc. Many people now feel that those studies were clear enough to put the matter to rest. but some people object to the inclution of any outside stimulus - even though most all energetic material is tested that way. Even in the Shimezu's old book on pyro ("The Art & Science") listed the speed of common flash as 3100; enough to compose detonation via a speed criterion.

YT2095 - 9-11-2006 at 07:59

Thanks :)

I think I`ve always viewed it in a more Simplistic way, there are things that Detonate (molecular level) and things that just burn very quickly.

but I guess like most things in Science, there`s always room for gray areas.

Making Matches, Longer Gray Article

ChemistrySet - 9-11-2006 at 14:05

The longer Theodore Gray article for the Popular Science column:

Making Matches

Cheers!

CS

Bert - 10-11-2006 at 10:07

Quote:

I would like to relate what I call the "Gilbert Chemistry Set Effect". I had a chemistry set. I did all the experiments in the book, then mixed together pretty much every combination of chemicals I could think of...and pretty much nothing happened. Some bubbles, some color changes. Then I got my hands on an industrial chemical supply catalog. I WAS IN THE HOSPITAL WITHIN TWO DAYS OF RECEIVING MY FIRST ORDER!


Ah, memories...

I have one visit to the hospital ER and a nice scar to show for my first day of red Phosphorous/chlorate experimentation as well. If you must try this, use only SMALL quantities, MIX THE PRE-DAMPED INGREDIENTS ONLY and let it dry where you intend to fire it.

I have a guy on my crew who used to make "firecrackers" with red P and chlorate, untill he blew the bathroom counter right out of his apartment building. You won't talk your way out of that kind of a situation without jail time these days.

[Edited on 10-11-2006 by Bert]

YT2095 - 10-11-2006 at 10:24

IMO, RP and Chlorate comes a close second to NI3 in instability and foolishness to make.
I`ve done both, I like Neither of them.

it truly is a Mixture Darwin would have approved of :)

Jdurg - 11-11-2006 at 16:38

NI3 will always have a place in my heart simply because if it weren't for that compound I'd have never thought of having an element collection. I recall seeing the compound used in a cheesy 1980's flick titled "The Manhattan Project" and after seeing it mentioned I went and looked it up. I found out it was real and asked my teacher if I could make it, and she said NO! Later on I found E-Bay, some iodine and then a bunch of other elements out there and my collection had begun.

I think everyone has one "foolish" compound that gets them hooked on chemistry and experimentation, but once they've made that compound they realize that it's not as "kewl" or "leet" as they once thought.

The_Davster - 11-11-2006 at 17:47

Haha. That exact movie got me hooked on chemistry at a young age. Really that entire movie got me hooked on science in general. Also developed another obsession from it, but at such a young age and lack of experimentation resources, my interest in radioactivity died after a few years, perhaps for the better:D.

We need more movies like, it actually gets kids interested in science, it is definatly one of my favorites.

[Edited on 12-11-2006 by The_Davster]