Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Nitrous Oxide - how does it give extra horses to an engine? - VIDEO

Nitrous Oxide - how does it give extra horses to an engine? - VIDEO

kadriver - 9-10-2015 at 13:38

I've got this car that I set up with a POWERSHOT Nitrous Oxide under-the-carb mounted plate injection.

The plate bolts under the carburetor. It has two brass tubes about 1/8 inch thick mounted front to back. Both tubes have several holes drilled into them to allow the gasoline and nitrous oxide to be directed downward into the intake manifold. One tube receives gasoline through a solenoid operated valve and squirts it straight into the manifold. The other tube receives nitrous oxide through a solenoid operated valve and it sprays straight into the manifold and down into the combustion chambers.

I measured the fuel flow once with the system off the vehicle. When the solenoid valve is opened, and fuel pressure is at 5 psi, it takes about 10 seconds to fill half a soda can with gasoline. This extra gas combines with the nitrous to created a gigantic boost in horsepower.

An internal combustion engine draws in air that is 21% oxygen by volume. Nitrous oxide (correct me if I'm wrong here) is 66.6% nitrogen and 33.3% oxygen by volume. Though NOT flammable by itself, when heated in the combustion chamber of the engine, the oxygen separates from the nitrogen and becomes available for combustion. This extra oxygen is what creates the huge boost in low rpm engine torque. But it MUST have a greater quantity of fuel to burn as well otherwise the metal inside the combustion chamber could get so hot that it may begin to melt in the presence of that much oxygen. That is why extra fuel is injected with the nitrous oxide.

This is how it was taught to me, but I wanted to check with folks who know chemistry much better than me. Thank you!

https://youtu.be/jKaoUw9i0lg
Edited to inset shortened video

kadriver

[Edited on 9-10-2015 by kadriver]

annaandherdad - 9-10-2015 at 18:19

Why don't you just inject air that is enhanced with oxygen? It would be easy to make 66% N2, 33% O2 with an air-oxygen mixture. That way you'd take advantage of the 21% O2 that is already in the air. Unless your N2O is really cheap.

violet sin - 9-10-2015 at 21:18

http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrousoxide.html
has some decent info, probably cookie-cutter type stuff found on all kinds of sites. more than I knew about the setup.

kadriver - 10-10-2015 at 00:12

Quote: Originally posted by annaandherdad

Why don't you just inject air that is enhanced with oxygen? It would be easy to make 66% N2, 33% O2 with an air-oxygen mixture. That way you'd take advantage of the 21% O2 that is already in the air. Unless your N2O is really cheap.

I don't know. If pure O2 was being metered into the engine along with the proper amount of nitrogen then one would think that that would work pretty good.

On the other hand, if something malfunctioned and just pure O2 ended up spraying down into the engine by itself, then the motor would literally burn up in very short order.

This can happen with N2O also, but only if I lost fuel flow and ran it very lean for an extended period.

kadriver

kadriver - 10-10-2015 at 00:37

Quote: Originally posted by violet sin

http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrousoxide.html
has some decent info, probably cookie-cutter type stuff found on all kinds of sites. more than I knew about the setup.

Great reading. It has inspired me to order a pin drill set, tiny drill bits from .010 to .045 inches in diameter. I'll use them and a micrometer to measure the holes in the nitrous injection plate. Then I'll add 25% and drill out the holes to increase the flow of the nitrous and the gasoline.

I'm trying to get the vehicle up over 100 mph and the ET down around 7 seconds in the eighth mile.

If I fail and blow the motor up then I'll have an excuse to get my coveted 631 cubic inch Big Block Chevy crate motor like the one pictured. It says 572, but the engine builder quoted me that a different crank will increase the stroke to get 631 cubic inches, AT NO ADDITIONAL COST.

violet sin - 10-10-2015 at 00:45

from above link,. 3 reasons why N₂O works
"When the nitrous oxide is heated to approximately 572F (on compression stroke), it breaks down and releases its load of extra oxygen, However, it is not this oxygen alone which creates additional power, but the ability of this oxygen to burn more fuel" ----> just burning more gas doesn't take nitrous

"Secondly, as pressurized nitrous oxide is injected into the intake manifold, it changes from a liquid to a gas (boils). This boiling affect reduces the temperature... ...A general rule of thumb: For every 10 Degrees F. reduction in intake charge temperature, a 1% increase in power... ...A 350 HP engine with an intake temperature drop of 70 Degrees F, would gain approximately 25 HP on the cooling affect alone" ----> cooling is a good byproduct of the process

"Nitrogen acts to "buff or damper" the increased cylinder pressures leading to a controlled combustion process and better slower heat release" -----> buffer = balanced burn
................................................

perhaps just TEC( thermo electric cooler) cooled gasoline jet/port and regular air would do the trick. both could be lead in through a cooling block if you had a good TEC, otherwise I think air might warm it faster than desired. you are basically just adding MORE gas than the cylinder would normally get, over feeding the thing and in such a manner as to not explode it while reaping smaller additional benefits. but your car already runs on gas, no extra O₂ tank needed, just an additional port with 2 electrical leads... maybe a beefed up alternator?

to sum up; extra fuel, regular air complete with buffer, cold intake, only wiring to deal with... could be a good and simple idea

NICE motor

you posted while I was typing.
vid of TEC in action, not a great one. but a nice high power version cooling your fuel could be at least noticeable?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIMYlslqPnM

[Edited on 10-10-2015 by violet sin]

[Edited on 10-10-2015 by violet sin]

kadriver - 10-10-2015 at 10:28

Quote: Originally posted by violet sin

maybe a beefed up alternator?

to sum up; extra fuel, regular air complete with buffer, cold intake, only wiring to deal with... could be a good and simple idea

NICE motor

you posted while I was typing.
vid of TEC in action, not a great one. but a nice high power version cooling your fuel could be at least noticeable?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIMYlslqPnM

I already have a 120 amp alternator with a fat battery cable wire to run the AC and the electric fans.

It gets real hot under the hood. Where would I find one suitable for automotive use? There is such a thing as a "cool can" that is packed with dry ice to cool the incoming fuel charge.

Or this one uses a soda can full of frozen water to cool the fuel charge;

http://speedmaxperformance.com/coolCan.php

But having an electric cooling device to constantly keep the fuel cold would really be nice. Maybe we could invent one with TEC that fits inside an already fabricated cool can.

kadriver

kadriver - 10-10-2015 at 10:55

This video uses a TEC to cool water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnKlIc6oCCg
A series of these in an insulated housing could make cold water fast - a necessity for this to work.
The cold water could be pumped into a "cool can" to cool the fuel charge.
The water, now warmer from removing heat from the fuel, is pumped back to the series of TEC were it is cooled again completeing the loop.

violet sin - 10-10-2015 at 14:15

the advantage with cooling in the TEC, is the cold side temp is dependent on hot side temp. so if you load the hot side with coolant flow or lots of fins and airflow or ice,.. the cold side gets colder than it normally would. could try dry ice loaded aluminum block attached to hot side and it may be able to keep the cold side frosting the fuel at an acceptable rate for you run.

if dry ice allowed it to get too cold, you switch to reg ice. but I assume you have a ton of fuel blasting through in that short period of time, meaning it would pretty quickly warm the cooling side. it would have to be an aggressive cooling device to see a meaningful temp drop and realize any power.