Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Restricted Chemicals AUS???

Restricted Chemicals AUS???

Dangle89 - 28-7-2015 at 03:58

Hello All

Long time reader of the site and figured I would finally sign up now I have a question that I cant seem to find an answer to!

Also sorry if this is in the wrong spot will read through the posting rules after this

I have been ordering Chems from all over the world for personal backyard use and a mate in the USA asked me what is Australia's restricted chemical list (like the DEA list in the US)?

I've probably spent close to 5 hours over the past couple of weeks reading websites that tell me to check 7 or 8 different federal agency's and then to check my state agency's

In my research the only page I could find that was half useful had the Customs 1901 Act but it only really talks about mind altering substances and chemical weapons

Just to clarify I am not looking for mind altering chemicals that are flat out illegal or in the gray like that synthetic pot stuff from a couple of years ago, I am more looking for a list of chems that would probably require a EUD if bought in Aus. The only chem in the act which was in the same ball park as what I am looking for was Carbon Tetrachloride (CCl4).

Last time I tried talking to government agency's I was trying to find out about importing depleted U metal for my element collection, I got passed from agency to agency till one lady told me "anything radioactive requires a $250 permit"

Have ordered plenty of Th and U minerals before and after that conversation and never had a problem tho

My theory has always just been if i'm not doing anything naughty with the things I buy I have nothing to worry about and could use the "bought it on ebay and didn't know" excuse

but figured I should probably try to find out the answer some day.

So my question is does anyone know if Australia has a list of restricted chemical imports (I would assume we do) and if so can anyone point me in the direction of where to find it?

Thanks so much everyone

Dangle

P.S. I know I cant spell / write great so please dont smash me over my writing skills

NedsHead - 28-7-2015 at 04:47

I don't have an answer to your question, you're better off calling customs directly or asking the police in your state for the info. I came here to say that many Australians have had their lives ruined because "bought it on eBay and didn't know". Unfortunately for us plebs ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Be careful

diddi - 28-7-2015 at 04:49

customs are most unhelpful. I spent 6 months trying to obtain advice about licencing to import, all to no avail.

Ignorance is not a defence, btw. Ultimately it may depend entirely on the impression you give in terms of competence and co-operation and evidence of legitimate usage of your chems and equipment.

[Edited on 28-7-2015 by diddi]

Dangle89 - 28-7-2015 at 05:52

Hello again :-)

Just to clarify I mainly stick to inorganic chem and would be happy to fill in EUD's here in AUS :-)

Contacts overseas are just so, so much cheaper, have better stock, I already have relationships built from buying elements and I find it hard to find chem company that sell to individuals within Australia.

It is more a preemptive question as don't really want to get a knock on the door one day because I ordered something that was flat out illegal without even realizing!

Would be happy for police to come have a look and show / explain to them what i'm doing

Just don't want to spend a night in the station while they test everything to check what i'm saying is true!

I know the "Didn't know" answer would not be ideal but figure if I have no intention / signs of doing anything dodgy it may hold up in a worst case scenario!

Thanks again everyone

j_sum1 - 28-7-2015 at 06:27

This matter crops up regularly. I think one of the issues is that the laws in Aus are less than transparent. diddi's vain attempts to extract information from customs is by no means unique. I had someone at my work do the same for a day and a half and got nothing more useful than that it is illegal to import meth pipes.

EUDs are a strange piece of legislation. They target suppliers rather than buyers. In other words they make it difficult for someone to supply wholesale to illicit drug manufacturers. They don't cover importation from overseas. I know of a couple of situations where someone has sought to sign an EUD to cover themselves for an imported item or chemical and the situation is just not set up for that.

I think the way it works is this:
1. Possession or purchasing of just about anything is legal. (I know you want an exclusion list but I don't think one has been drawn up.)
2. Possession of anything with intent to do something illegal is illegal. (Intent is difficult to prove.)
3. Possession of anything that is demonstrably related to classified illegal drugs is illegal. I believe the definition may be as loose as "drug paraphernalia". I think if it came to a court case they would be interested in evidence that the equipment/chemicals had been used to manufacture drugs or were specifically designed for that purpose. Several lines of evidence would be necessary and not just the fact that you own a beaker.
4. Sale and supply of items within Australia is fraught with all manner of ill-thought and unclear paperwork in an attempt to curb supply but mostly makes it awkward for genuine businesses. Most seem to respond by (a) not supplying individuals and (b) limiting the items that they supply. Everything is still available from China or India on eBay though.
5. Customs track glassware and chemical imports. They inform police. This happens regularly.
6. Police perform regular checks based on information provided by customs. All accounts I have heard involving hobby chemists have turned out ok.
7. Drug cooks continue to make crystal meth in tin cans and suitcases and with untraceable glassware -- stolen, blown, hacked or jury-rigged or through false EUD statements or unchecked eBay imports.

Keep your nose clean and don't do anything stupid. Make sure your lab looks inorganic rather than organic. Keep a lab book. Label everything and make it look organised. Support local suppliers when possible. Buy from overseas when not. Expect a visit from police if you order glassware from overseas or sensitive chemicals (with a fairly broad and vague definition of what that might be.) Be friendly and cooperative with the police when they arrive. Ask them questions including to see relevant paperwork and what the law actually states. Being friendly and cooperative of course. Remember that possession of glassware etc is not illegal. And if it turns vaguely sour, buy the best lawyer that you can.

Dangle89 - 28-7-2015 at 08:43

Hello

Thanks everyone!

I have decided to contact Customs and get them to point me to legislation (so they cant just give me the "No" answer) and will let you all know what the result is

I know in my state legislation (would be different for each) everything is based on "intent to manufacture" so as j_sum1 said technically, as far as I can see, everything (apart from straight up illegal substance) is legal in my state unless I plan on doing something illegal with it

I am not a lawyer but, at this point, looks like everything might work out OK! I still wouldn't push my luck by ordering 25L of AA or HI acid or something stupid though!

I will let you all know what the result is from Customs

Thanks again

Dangle

diddi - 28-7-2015 at 17:42

25litres of HI is not a good look. not even I would do that. but I know an .au distributer that would sell 25L GAA no probs.

Oscilllator - 28-7-2015 at 18:57

Quote: Originally posted by Dangle89

I have decided to contact Customs and get them to point me to legislation (so they cant just give me the "No" answer) and will let you all know what the result is

See the attached file for a list of restricted chemicals and contact details for the relevant government agencies. I myself contacted the NSW police force regarding the purchase of glassware in particular (the thread's around there somewhere...) and I would recommend you do the same, since it is not customs that makes the decision to restrict chemicals and/or knock down your door.
With regards to the legislation however, the "Drug Misuse and Trafficking Regulation 2011 Part 2 Clause 7 (Sales of Schedule 3 apparatus) " is probably worth a look.

Edit: I should have read your post properly. I don't think a list of restricted imports will necessarily help that much, since it might be that a chemical that is restricted/requires an EUD in Australia does not have any restrictions on importing. For example, I purchased 1L 24/40 round bottomed flasks from China with no problems, even though to do so in Australia would require an EUD.
So although contacting customs is a good idea, I think you should also contact the relevant government agency so if anything comes up you have evidence you tried to do the right thing.
Attachment: end user declaration.pdf (242kB)
This file has been downloaded 686 times

[Edited on 29-7-2015 by Oscilllator]

diddi - 28-7-2015 at 19:06

very good oscillator! I am getting what ever info from Vic Police atm...

Dangle89 - 28-7-2015 at 23:34

Hello all

Talked to Customs and AFP today.

Customs told me they have no information on anything like that (that really surprised me!) and to talk to AFP to check. AFP told me "if it was illegal to import, that would be a Customs law".

I live in ACT and law (Criminal Code 2002) says:

"612A Possessing offence—presumption if controlled precursor possessed to manufacture controlled drug

(1) This section applies if, in a prosecution for an offence against section 612 (5) (Possessing controlled precursor), it is proved that the defendant possessed a controlled precursor with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug.

(2) It is presumed, unless the contrary is proved, that the defendant had the intention or belief about the sale of the drug required for the offence.

Note The defendant has a legal burden in relation to the matters mentioned in
s (2) (see s 59). "

So as far as I can tell from my discussions today, anything that is not black and white illegal is legal unless I plan on doing something illegal with it

Am expecting a knock at the door though as the AFP guy sounded a little confused but invited him to come past any time :cool:

Dangle

[Edited on 29-7-2015 by Dangle89]

Dangle89 - 28-7-2015 at 23:50

Sorry here is the rest of the precursor law!

"612 Possessing controlled precursor

(1) A person commits an offence if the person possesses a large commercial quantity of a controlled precursor—

(a) with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug; and
(b) with the intention of selling any of the manufactured drug or believing that someone else intends to sell any of the manufactured drug.

Maximum penalty: 2 500 penalty units, imprisonment for 25 years or both.

(2) Absolute liability applies to the circumstance that the quantity possessed was a large commercial quantity.

(3) A person commits an offence if the person possesses a commercial quantity of a controlled precursor—

(a) with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug; and
(b) with the intention of selling any of the manufactured drug or believing that someone else intends to sell any of the manufactured drug.

Maximum penalty: 1 500 penalty units, imprisonment for 15 years
or both.

(4) Absolute liability applies to the circumstance that the quantity possessed was a commercial quantity.

(5) A person commits an offence if the person possesses a controlled precursor—

(a) with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug; and Serious drug offences Chapter 6
Manufacturing controlled drugs and precursors Part 6.3
Section 612A R31

(b) with the intention of selling any of the manufactured drug or believing that someone else intends to sell any of the manufactured drug.

Maximum penalty: 700 penalty units, imprisonment for 7 years or both."

So again wouldn't buy "Commercial Quantity's" or sell anything to anyone, as those bits look a little open to interpretation and could get you in the crap, but apart from that all looks sweet

Dangle

diddi - 29-7-2015 at 03:58

as soon as there is interpretation involved I see warning lights a-flashing

"commercial quantity" hmmmm lets interpret that one

Dangle89 - 30-7-2015 at 05:02

Found the precursor amounts legislation (i.e. definition of a commercial quantity) after a lot of digging! The obviously don't want to make it easy for people to find!

http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/sl/2005-2/current/pdf/2005...

Some of them are really supersizing!

For instance I walk around everyday with a commercial quantity of platinum on my finger! Yet owning 1kg of Pseudoephedrine would NOT be commercial quantity

WTF!

Another interesting one is Th is on the list and anything under 1kg is not a commercial quality! Gotta say good luck finding a kilo of Th though! Plus I think that one might fall under some other laws

Last thing I don't understand is the acids. For Phosphorous acid commercial quality is 1.1L but I wonder if that is 1.1L of 100% pure or if 1.1L of 1% acid would count? Hydrobromic acid is on there too at 250ml and 100% HBr is a gas so that's where I got confused

Thank you so much for everything everyone

I have gotten all the answers I need and happy for this thread to be closed (or left open so other hobby chemists in ACT don't have to go through all the crap I had to!)

Thanks again

diddi - 30-7-2015 at 05:10

those figures do not match those which I have been able to check with Victoria Police.
ephedrine 25 grams
Pt 0.5g
Phosphorous acid 25ml

lesson here is that the states have no means of communicating with each other (because the train line changes at the border) so if its on the list you have no idea where the goalposts will be standing.

I think there are lot of issues that are entirely unresolved thus far in this thread.

Dangle89 - 30-7-2015 at 05:21

Quote: Originally posted by diddi

those figures do not match those which I have been able to check with Victoria Police.
ephedrine 25 grams
Pt 0.5g
Phosphorous acid 25ml

lesson here is that the states have no means of communicating with each other (because the train line changes at the border) so if its on the list you have no idea where the goalposts will be standing.

I think there are lot of issues that are entirely unresolved thus far in this thread.

I agree with diddi

Probably should keep this open and turn it into a national thread rather than just relevant to ACT seeing as it is the smallest territory!

Everyone please all feel free to search for and add info for your states :-)

Also forgot to mention before, all of this info is a guide and you could still have AFP / local police knocking / smashing down your door even if you keep within these limits. Just remember they are just doing their jobs so be nice if they do rock up and (hopefully) as soon as they realize you are not doing anything wrong they will be as nice to you as you have been to them*

* also remember some people are just dicks and nothing you do will change that

diddi - 30-7-2015 at 05:48

and there is the perennial (well discussed) problem of neighbours with lack of understanding of what they see.

Dangle89 - 1-8-2015 at 20:55

Hi again all

Here is the DFAT chem list for anyone into Radiochemistry

or chemical weapons manufacturers

I hope we don't have any people in that second category!

That link didn't seem to work

Here is the google search (DFAT chemical imports):

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&...

It is the doc labeled "chemicals - Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade". Was the first page result at time this was posted.

Dangle

[Edited on 2-8-2015 by Dangle89]

alive&kickin - 4-8-2015 at 06:43

Dangle89, I've found that keeping a record of all the calls you've made (date, time, & who you spoke to) helps when the police come to the door, that way you can prove that at least you tried to get an answer to your question.

Oscilllator - 4-8-2015 at 16:40

Quote: Originally posted by alive&kickin

Dangle89, I've found that keeping a record of all the calls you've made (date, time, & who you spoke to) helps when the police come to the door, that way you can prove that at least you tried to get an answer to your question.

Better yet, use email. Writing down the time/date of calls is not nearly as convincing as emails.

Dangle89 - 5-8-2015 at 00:49

Keeping records of all phone calls and emails

Emails are generally useless but keep them anyway as proof of contact

In the habit of doing that for my day job

Job also involves interpreting much more "lawyer speak" legislation from the 70's than the way ACT law is written so quite use to reading legislation

My main interest is the acids (HBr, HI, H3PO4), elements (P, I, Na, Li, Ca) and inorganic salts (CrO3). Not the organic precursors (Psudo, Safrole).

Also as mentioned before, this is a guide to attempt to educate people. Just trying to get as much information in one place so they don't have to spend as many hours searching for it as I have!
And to give them some information so they can ask educated questions don't get a useless "No" runaround answer.

If anyone is planning on importing something dangerous or that could be used for illicit purposes, I would still recommend they do their own research as laws change all the time and this info could be out of date at any point

Dangle89 - 5-8-2015 at 01:15

Also here is some info provided to me by another member (Thank you!) on some of the environmentally damaging chems. The NICNAS site has a Chemical search section too but I have not had much luck gaining information from it!

http://www.nicnas.gov.au/about-nicnas/legislation-and-regula...

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C01128

Camroc37 - 5-8-2015 at 17:16

You can thank Aunt Thally for that restriction

Rynoaus - 13-3-2016 at 18:03

Looking at the therapeutic goods list of illicit precursors is a good place to start as it shows any chemicals that require an import Licence or permit then of corse the state legislation is very foggy. I live in qld I recently ordered enough AA to make a small sample of cellulose acetate (120mls for a .5grm sample) for a project from america. Customs stopped it and then sent police to my door I showed them what of the experiment I had done (working on extracting cellulose from wood etc they seemed happy with that but the police officer said to me that possession of AA over point one of gram is an Offence even if I am using it lawfully as it's listed in the drugs misuse act. They took my notebook and phone and nothing else it seems even the police up here have no idea.

j_sum1 - 13-3-2016 at 19:31

AA is acetic acid??

That is crazy. It is sold to cake decorators. Glacial acetic acid apparently makes the fondant shiny.
With that in mind, you should be able to get food grade from somewhere like the Melbourne food depot. No time to look up a linky at present.

I would be asking questions -- including why they felt in necessary to take your phone.

gdflp - 13-3-2016 at 19:52

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

AA is acetic acid??

Much more likely AA = Acetic anhydride. It can be used to acetylate morphine into heroin, but personally I think that it is ridiculous to restrict such a generic reagent with wide applications. It is technically restricted in the US as well, although less so as I was able to purchase some without filling out any forms or whatnot.

Rynoaus - 13-3-2016 at 21:52

Yes it was acetic anhydride on the warrant it says and this is funny: that on this day this person was UNLAWFULLY in possessed a relevant substance namely Acetic Anhydride detail of warrant evidence or property that may be seized under warrant: acetic anhydride,citric acid crystals,baking soda,gas top cooker and items used in the manufacture of illicit drugs computers and electronic devices order forms or receipts for acetic anhydride.
When I saw this I thought god my kitchen stove is gas are they really gonna rip that out and take it lol and most of it is contained in a normal household. They took my phone cos they probably wanna see my texts and emails and shit but all I do is look at science stuff and I don't know or hang around any criminals. So to my mind if they try to charge me with something when I was attempting to do something legitimate with it I'll be able to fight it in court if I have too. But this is the attitude you could face the officer asked me why I would do chemistry for a hobby I told him knowledge, knowledge of the world around us the universe and ourselves this he could not understand! When he asked if my experiment had the wanted outcome could there be money in it to which I replied possibly then he thought he understood but money is not the reason knowledge is.

diddi - 14-3-2016 at 02:37

the police have to prove intent, which is why they have taken evidence that may potentially incriminate you. but as you say, you don't hang with the wrong crowd, so I would not expect you will have any trouble (good luck). you will also find that acquisition of glassware will attract the police as can be vouched for by several Australian SM members. as already discussed in this thread, ensure you have a paper trail showing your use of potentially illegal materials and equipment.

j_sum1 - 14-3-2016 at 03:05

Makes sense, diddi. Evidence to analyse to establish intent.

Indeed, good luck. I'd be having a preliminary conversation with a lawyer because you don't want this kind of thing to drag on or become more awkward due to something that you inadvertently said or did (or didn't do).

Sad that this situation arose. This is the first story of its kind that I have heard that did not pan out happily. It should have a happy ending but the middle bit is crud.

This document (attached) has been posted before but is relevant and a good read. Sure enough, your AA is the first item in appendix one.

Attachment: end user declaration.pdf (242kB)
This file has been downloaded 386 times

Rynoaus - 14-3-2016 at 03:29

Quote: Originally posted by diddi

the police have to prove intent, which is why they have taken evidence that may potentially incriminate you. but as you say, you don't hang with the wrong crowd, so I would not expect you will have any trouble (good luck). you will also find that acquisition of glassware will attract the police as can be vouched for by several Australian SM members. as already discussed in this thread, ensure you have a paper trail showing your use of potentially illegal materials and equipment.

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/d/drugsm...
States 1 a person who unlawfully possesses a relevant substance commits a crime.
Maximum sentence 15 years
2 it is a defence to a charge of an offence against subsection 1 for a person to prove that the person has a reasonable excuse for possessing a relevant substance or thing.
Have a look at the lists anything and everything is in there. Thanks for the good wishes. Maybe at best I'll get my AA at worst I may still get it but it costs in court fees we'll see I'll keep everyone updated. I'm planning on telling the guy when I see him that I'm going to get proper glassware set(I've always jury rigged something for my purposes) nothing to fancy or big but enough to further my experimentations and see what he says.cheers

Rynoaus - 14-3-2016 at 03:39

Thanks again also I should explain I bought on eBay green technologies they are really good actually. I probably should of tried to purchase in aus and do the end user dec but I drive trucks interstate so I really only get weekends at home. It's really hard for the hobby chemist/scientist ,terrorist drugs and the deliberate dumbing down of the population will see a gentlemans pursuit outlawed.

NedsHead - 14-3-2016 at 05:03

I honestly would not want to be in your shoes mate and I would do as j_sum1 suggested and contact a lawyer to nip this in the bud before it's blown out of proportion.

All the best

diddi - 14-3-2016 at 14:26

I point of difference with this case j_sum is that the trigger for the raid was chems and not glassware. hmmm. beware "unusual" imports from Onyx and the like

and a bit of encouragement. I know of au SM members who have been raided and have not had large quantities of banned chems confiscated, let alone further action taken, so there is at least some room for the hobby chemist to practise their evil craft here. more good luck to you

[Edited on 14-3-2016 by diddi]

Rynoaus - 15-3-2016 at 02:43

Thanks again I hope it doesn't turn into a farce. I checked the TGA website before I purchased to make sure I didn't require an import licence or permit. But if a person isn't intending on making drugs why really would they go looking into the drugs misuse act.

diddi - 15-3-2016 at 03:21

i tried to get the required documentation to import thallium. got directed from place to place until they could not decide what to recommend so they gave up and said i did not fit into a category requiring licencing

Rynoaus - 15-3-2016 at 12:26

Quote: Originally posted by diddi

i tried to get the required documentation to import thallium. got directed from place to place until they could not decide what to recommend so they gave up and said i did not fit into a category requiring licencing

Seems pretty typical of the legislation it even leaves the people in charge wondering what's legal and what's not. I suppose the best thing as sum1 suggests is to get an ABN and get account but that then brings about the cost issue full distillation set from China half the price it is here. Ahh groan scratch head

Rynoaus - 22-3-2016 at 22:17

Update. I had sent an email to customs stating that I wanted it for research and told them the process I was looking at. After the police came they I'm told showed my email to two police chemists. One of them said don't believe me and the other said do believe he is legit. So they call me down to the police station to give my phone and notebook back and the officer tells me that while they are not (generously) going to charge me but I cannot have the chemicals they will not release them to a joe blo from the public and made me sign a waiver giving up ownership. He told me that AA can be converted directly to heroin and I can't have it. So after some discussion I pressed him on the issue of glassware to which I got a fuck knows answer. I also said we'll can I get acetyl chloride then it's not on the list and of course the answer was dunno. This is a link to the actual amounts and what is relevant. https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/D/DrugsM...
Notice it doesn't even mention sizes for flasks anything could be a reaction vessel includind really a bucket!

NedsHead - 22-3-2016 at 23:21

the Australian Gov<sup>TM</sup> have been operating behind vague and undefined laws for a long time now, it's no better for us firearm owners. I'm glad they didn't choose to make an example of you

diddi - 23-3-2016 at 00:52

yes you have had good luck, but from a more sceptical point of view, they clearly could not prove intent so they would not have been able to prosecute anyway. again, good documentation and a paper trail has supported a home chemist. let that be a lesson to others.

glad that your hobby does not have to take place behind bars

Rynoaus - 23-3-2016 at 02:48

Thanks. Yeah it kinda sucked in the fact that I live in a small city so the officer here only sent the email to customs that I had sent with a brief description of what I was doing. But if they had actually copied my notebook and sent that to the chemists in B then they would've seen clearly what I was getting at, the process, the thinking and notes behind it. As well as past experiments with detailed notes on the chemicals used amounts etc and products as well as disposal (I try not to have a great deal of chems laying @ even though it in locked shed I have a child) so I can't understand why they wouldn't have sent that but anyway it turned out a draw. It's a setback but that's life. I don't suppose acetyl chloride would work in the cellulose reaction to acetate I'll have to look into that now. Cheers all

woelen - 23-3-2016 at 03:49

From acetyl chloride and anhydrous sodium acetate you can make acetic anhydride. This may be a route for you to get small quantities of acetic anhydride, which you use up in experiments, so that you do not violate any laws by storing it.

Keep in mind though that acetyl chloride is a real nasty and long term storage of this is a pain in the ass. The only really satisfactory way is ampouling it.

[Edited on 23-3-16 by woelen]

Rynoaus - 31-3-2016 at 15:28

Thanks I've thought about that I'm trying
To see if I can get it without a drama I'll see how that goes.

Rynoaus - 14-4-2016 at 16:45

Update I bought some glassware that I was assured came from within aus so that I could sign an end user Dec if needed etc well It mustn't have. had a few cool experiments in mind. Any way three weeks after my initial raid they just came back this morning going on that I bought a condenser and then went through my shed again asked if I had iodine which I don't and reckoned that some of the chemicals I had could make ice (a couple weeks ago it was heroin)I politely told them that you could probably make anything from anything nearly so what does that prove then one of them ended up being ok calling me a mad scientist lol I'm far from well versed in chemistry I feel. So they took my whole new glass kit to test it and to see if it conforms with regulations? What regulations would they be I could only find info in drugs misuse act. This is really pissing me off I tell you I lost money with the chemical and I bet they will say I can't have it and that I have to sign it over to them unreal they really are just thieves they can't prove a thing but they still take stuff just because. Qld is a redneck hole but I was born here and have made my life here. End note I told cop I was accused ten years ago of making drugs they had nothing because there was nothing nefarious that didn't stop them from writing an official letter stating that was what I was doing gave it to real estate agent and got me kicked out. Then conseded weeks later that there was nothing in it. And now this crap and he said is it really worth it? I said that's crap that attitude is it worth it to learn? Experiment? I said just come over and ask to look in my shed as long as your not here looking for pot( yes I smoke on occasion) you are welcome to see what I am doing with chemistry to which he replied well we may need to come to a compromise like that as I'm giving to end up with charges of shooting you if I have to come back here every month over something you've ordered from china. Obviously supplier lied about where item was despatched from.

j_sum1 - 14-4-2016 at 17:27

Crap!

So, what happened to the EUD you signed?

I would be asking further questions about this one. Did you record their badge numbers?
In this case they have obviously overstepped the mark and have not followed procedure. There should be some follow-up.

More discussion later -- gotta go.

Rynoaus - 14-4-2016 at 17:38

I know one of them by name but get their badge numbers there was a South African cop who was not too bad but he was the one who seem to know the most about chemistry anyway thanks cheers talk soon

Rynoaus - 14-4-2016 at 17:43

oh and the end user agreement was never asked for in the end which I figured might just come with the invoice so that I could sign it and send it back on a side note I got 24/ 40 an organic glassware set with a bunch of stuff couple of different condensers bits and pieces I figure 24/40 is pretty much the same as 24/29 isn't it as the 24 is the constricting size for the flow rate if I'm on the right track I just figured with the larger conical so that it might be a bit tougher at the joints

[Edited on 15-4-2016 by Rynoaus]

j_sum1 - 14-4-2016 at 18:18

I use 24/40 and have a couple of 24/29 bits that fit with it.

I'm in QLD. We are probably quite close. Send a U2U if you want.

(At work at the moment so can't really chat.)

Rynoaus - 14-4-2016 at 18:24

Will do thanks

Rynoaus - 18-4-2016 at 05:49

on the topic of end user declarations does anyone know is the onus on the company to ask for one and provide one or is there also an expectation on the purchaser as I can only find codes of practice that state that the provider must ask for an application to be filled out and then send it on to the Commissioner of Police is the onus is on only the seller then I am wondering how in the news a poor guy in Townsville was found making tea tree oil with a distillation set that he bought from China and they charge him with not providing an end user declaration somehow my set didn't even arrived with a paper invoice but it said sometbi g about Sydney on the postal stamp on top I really have no idea where it came from now.

NedsHead - 18-4-2016 at 06:33

I believe if you are importing the glassware then the onus is on you to provide an EUD, only the Australian suppliers would be bound by law to require an EUD before sale, and that may even vary from state to state, in any case I wouldnt just take their word for it, I would fill one out and submit it myself, especially so if I lived in Queensland, horrible place

Rynoaus - 20-4-2016 at 03:22

OK so I was unable to find an easy way to quickly send a eud I don't even have a printer but as its sent to the commissioner of police I emailed his office with details of what I wanted it for ametuer chemistry trying to prove out theory's I have and possible invention's I just listed the set I had and swore that it would not be used to make illicit substances outlined the quandary with sellers location etc so its been sent within 12 days and if they want more details they can ask the officers who took my stuff they know it all. Also the chemicals that really had the guy in a huff was hydrogen peroxide and pottasium permanganate I asked him what do they do then he says you make iodine from them maybe he meant extract I'm not sure really the brought out some afid killer and asked do I use that for anything but plants it has pottasium salts it says then asks if I have a root rot product which I dont. I showed him glycerin for use with permanganate for survival kit as well as exp and explained that hydrogen peroxide was for the sulfuric acid exp. So yeah pretty full on stuff.

NedsHead - 20-4-2016 at 04:58

Well at least you will be seen to have made some effort to do the right thing, in a worst case scenario it'll look good in court.

On an unrelated note, it's very difficult to follow your posts, they read like the scribbles of a tweaker, please break it up with some paragraphs

diddi - 20-4-2016 at 13:33

Quote: Originally posted by Rynoaus

Qld is a redneck hole

haha cop that j_sum

EUD is only a requirement for SELLERS within .au
It covers their arse, not yours. sorry
Unless you paid an enormously inflated price for your glassware, it will be imported (and hence EUD free) as the seller is not under .au legal jurisdiction. I followed up the legislation with Vic police as I was negotiating with a .cn supplier to resell for him here. Their advice: don't even think about it

[Edited on 20-4-2016 by diddi]

[Edited on 20-4-2016 by diddi]

j_sum1 - 20-4-2016 at 14:29

Quote: Originally posted by diddi

Quote: Originally posted by Rynoaus

Qld is a redneck hole

haha cop that j_sum

I could rephrase -- Aus is a redneck hole.
But there are risks at generalisation. I'm here for family reasons primarily. But I also feel like I am doing things of significance and making a difference in my little chunk of the world.

There are degrees of holes. I am glad I am not living in Ipswich. Where I am is not so bad.

Rynoaus - 20-4-2016 at 22:59

Haha sorry I was using speech to text while driving in my truck, sorry about that.

[Edited on 21-4-2016 by Rynoaus]

Rynoaus - 25-4-2016 at 00:55

Thanks diddi yes I thought that was the case after reading and rereading legislation over and over. I just figure I have an extra defensive line by attempting to comply with their innate need to know where every flask and condenser is located in qld lol.

tekkado - 4-5-2016 at 14:14

hey guys alot of good info here.
something from when i had a visit from the police.
I'd admittedly gone over board buying from China when i saw the price difference when compared to here. So anyways it turns up and im excited, its beautiful and i couldn't want for anything more. about a month later a knock on the door and dad answers. police with a warrant to search. so i talk to them and take them to all the glass and show them. they were very fair and really pressed the point of how valuable the glassware is to criminals. whether this is true or not i dont know. they mentioned "well what if the courier who delivered it knew what it was told some crim buddies and burgled the house for the glass". which scared the hell out of my parents. it signed over all my condensors and larger flasks to them and that was it.

Think before you order. And just be honest. They were actually pretty candid and had to come back out to pick up the glassware (they didnt take it on the spot) but everytime they were meant to come out were out on a bust or something and had to reschedule. The sheer amount of illegal labs in QLD seems to be no joke thats why theyre so hard on it.

Loptr - 4-5-2016 at 20:53

Fear is why they are so hard on it. The media does a good job demonizing anything it deems outside the norm. Sad, but it's a fact that police receive direction from public outcry, rather than the results of evidence based methods.

So, wait. They took your glassware?