Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Tap water

Tap water

Tegwyn - 27-7-2015 at 23:48

am not a chemist but need help...my son seems to react to tap water ( chlorinated) with irritated esophagus but only in summer...does sunlight or high temperatures affect the water? We live in Italy. The water board say they do not change dose of chlorine in summer.

aga - 28-7-2015 at 00:12

Surprising that your drinking water is dosed with chlorine !

The water chlorine level may change very slightly, but that would not be restricted to summer.

If your son is very young, it may be that his sensitivity to chlorine is is the variable factor.

You can find out exactly how much chlorine is in your water using a method called Mohr's Titration
www.outreach.canterbury.ac.nz/chemistry/documents/chloride_m...

Tegwyn - 28-7-2015 at 01:34

Thank you...was only cooking with the tap water and still gave problems...not chlorine but Ipoclorito?

annaandherdad - 28-7-2015 at 08:51

Quote: Originally posted by Tegwyn

am not a chemist but need help...my son seems to react to tap water ( chlorinated) with irritated esophagus but only in summer...does sunlight or high temperatures affect the water? We live in Italy. The water board say they do not change dose of chlorine in summer.

Ciao, Tegwyn, se e' vero che il livello di cloro e' lo stesso d'inverno e d'estate, forse non e' il cloro che fa al tuo figlio irritare l'esofogo. Suggerisco che tu faccia uno sperimento, dagli solo acqua da bottiglia una o due settimane, e poi torna all'acqua dal rubinetto, e vedi se c'e' qualcosa diverso...Quanti anni ha tuo figlio?

aga - 28-7-2015 at 09:05

Quote:

We live in Italy

facepalm minore: Tegwyn è un nome gallese, e non ha mai detto che era italiano

[Edited on 28-7-2015 by aga]

annaandherdad - 28-7-2015 at 09:19

E aga, e' un nome italiano?

unionised - 28-7-2015 at 10:59

People drink more water in Summer.
So whatever is in the water, the child will get more of it in Summer.

kecskesajt - 28-7-2015 at 11:18

I not triing to be an a**hole but there are medical forums all around the web.
Does he react the same way to mineral water?
Buy an activated charcoal water filter.
Not the cheapest thing but really worth it.(for my family)
Or buy only a jug like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Laica-household-water-purifie...

[Edited on 29-7-2015 by kecskesajt]

aga - 28-7-2015 at 12:07

Quote: Originally posted by annaandherdad

E aga, e' un nome italiano?

Il mio nome italiano è di solito pronunciato 'agi' seguita da uno sputo, e l'incendio di uno scoiattolo infuriato per la sicurezza.

(confession: translate.google.com).

Sulaiman - 28-7-2015 at 12:38

Aga, I used google translate to translate your text to english;

"Il mio nome italiano è di solito pronunciato 'agi' seguita da uno sputo, e l'incendio di uno scoiattolo infuriato per la sicurezza"

which came back as

"Italian My name is usually pronounced 'ease' followed by a spit, and the burning of a squirrel angry security"

how does burning a squirrel help with angry security ?

aga - 28-7-2015 at 13:05

Yes. That's about right.

Should be 'angry squirrel'.

The God Juno is not happy with placid burnt offerings.

[Edited on 28-7-2015 by aga]

feacetech - 28-7-2015 at 13:58

How is your towns water sourced.

If its from a river or other surface water, during the summer the water flow can be low and organic loading can increase.

This can be even worse after a dry patch followed by heavy rain.

This in turn requires more Chlorine to be added to maintain the required FAC (FAH) level in the drinking supply.

So while the level of free available chlorine maybe fairly similar through out the year the by-products of chlorination will be more concentrated.

Also it could be another contaminate that is more concentrated during the warmer months.

Chlorine gas is the most common method of water sanitisation due to its price and availability.

Get a good quality water filter and see if this fixes the problem, if not try a different source of water.

aga - 28-7-2015 at 14:02

Quote: Originally posted by feacetech

Chlorine gas is the most common method of water sanitisation due to its price and availability.

No.

It cannot be, *if* you mean the gassing of water with actual chlorine gas.

That would be insane.

softbeard - 28-7-2015 at 15:34

I'm not sure why you think that would be insane. Usually the chlorine is added as 'liquid chlorine', i.e. sodium hypochlorite solution, but bubbling in chlorine gas would also work and accomplish the same thing.
The consequences of not doing this properly are well illustrated by an incident that happened in a town called Walkerton, close to where I live, in Ontario, Canada.
In 2000, the town's water supply became contaminated by 0157:H7 e. coli bacteria, resulting in 7 deaths and half of the population becoming sick. I'll take a little chlorine in my water any day.

Zephyr - 28-7-2015 at 15:37

Quote: Originally posted by aga

Quote: Originally posted by feacetech

Chlorine gas is the most common method of water sanitisation due to its price and availability.

No.

It cannot be, *if* you mean the gassing of water with actual chlorine gas.

That would be insane.

Actually, adding chlorine gas to water is quite common in older systems.
Other additives:
1. Sodium hydroxide when the water is acidic enough to dissolve pipe fittings and leach copper and lead into the water.
2. Sodium hypochlorite as a disinfectant, the modern alternative to Cl2.
3. Sodium fluoride is commonly added to water and helps prevent teeth decay, despite what conspiracy theorists say.
4. Trisodium phosphate to complex iron and manganese to stop them from precipitating and causing stains.
5. In addition, many dissolved minerals are naturally in water.

Finally, concentrations of these chemicals in drinking water vary depending on temperature, organic carbon content, and pH. So it is very likely that Cl concentration increases during the summer, at least in the US.

AJKOER - 28-7-2015 at 17:34

Try adding dilute H2O2 to the chlorinated water you will directly consume.

Pretty much removes the chlorine smell also.

Chemistry:

Hypochlorite based chlorination:
NaClO + H2O2 = NaCl + O2 (which produces a fresh smell as well).

Direct use of Chlorine:
Cl2 + H2O = HOCl + HCl
HOCl + H2O2 = HCl + H2O + O2 (note, water is slightly more acidic)

Chloramines:
NH2Cl + H2O = NH3 + HOCl
HOCl + H2O2 = HCl + H2O + O2
NH3 + HCl = NH4Cl

[Edited on 29-7-2015 by AJKOER]

Tegwyn - 28-7-2015 at 22:41

Thank you everyone...yes there are lots of medical forums but no one gets down to the nitty gritty of reaction of water, chlorine, sunlight temperature, etc and seeing as local doctors poo poo the idea, I thought I'd try to get some more concrete facts from you all. So,it could very well be something else in the water which I am unlikely to discover...my son is now 12, this has happened for 4 summers now and stops as soon as I stop using tap water for cooking (we always drink bottled spring water). Then in winter I go back to cooking normally and everything is ok. Will have to get a very good filter.
Tegwyn e' gallese infatti e non sono italiana ma vivo qui da anni.

pneumatician - 2-8-2015 at 15:19

leave it 2 or 3 days in the fridge o in a quiet place in a jar o bottle with a wide mouth and bye c.

the simple the best

feacetech - 2-8-2015 at 15:37

Yea standing only removes the FREE Cl (and potentially increases by-products).

You forget what chlorination does to water it chlorinates every thing.

Like I said the FAC (Free available Cl) may stay the same all year round lets say ~1.0 ppm, however the municipal may be adding a lot more Cl during the summer to make up for organic loading and what not.

When you chlorinate water you get by products of chlorination.

These could be a lot higher in the summer causing the issue.

It may not be this, it could something totally different.

This problem is substantially worse if the municipal gets its water from a river or other surface water.

Even so Chlorination by-products are usually carcinogenic.

The down side of cheap and cherry water treatment options aka Cl gas (and to a lesser extent Hypo, gas is cheaper and easier).

ClO2 apparently forms little to no by products of chlorination but is a lot more expensive, and we all know the risk if the dosing system has a major issue like lose of containment and mixing of precursors in a confined space.

However I have seen test results from a bore water treated with Cl vs ClO2, the odd thing was Bromination by-products actually increased to some degree while Chlorine by-products dropped significantly.

[Edited on 2-8-2015 by feacetech]

pneumatician - 2-8-2015 at 16:20

well ok, so do not complicate life, if you have a car... I don't known where you live but believe or not inclusive in my area where I live, metropolitan area of Barcelona, exist a lot of fountains very near my home, some are lost, some dry, some in a private property but a lot in places you can reach by car. so buy a lot of glass jugs, find a fountain with a good taste and get a lot of water free!

every water is diferent (have diferents amounts/mixes of various chem elements) so puting Cl or Cl02 can result in various end "products".

when the water of a fountain go out start to "die" if the temp outside is diferent, a spontaneous reaction start and the chlorides change to nitrates, sulfates to chlorides, sulfur to... so always in the end you are drinking water with + or - "shit" in it. now if you drink tap water who spent years in a dam injected of Cl, imagine, if you can, what "thing" you are "enjoying"