Sciencemadness Discussion Board

looking for my first lab equipment, need advice

homegrown - 12-7-2015 at 22:51

I'm new here. I plan on going back to college for chemistry. I know little about it. I'm looking around for a good starter chemistry lab equipment. I was advised that a distillation equipment is a good start. Not sure what else are there to consider. Is this product below a good starter kit:

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/organic-chemistry-deluxe-gl...

If not can someone here recommend me a better one? That one in the link is over $200. Could I get a better one for less? I'm sure I could if I buy each parts individually rather than a "complete set" that come all-in-one as a set.

[Edited on 13-7-2015 by homegrown]

[Edited on 13-7-2015 by homegrown]

j_sum1 - 12-7-2015 at 23:07

Apart from being very overpriced, it is probably not a bad kit.

But...

Before you buy anything you should develop a clearer sense of what you are trying to accomplish. Then you will have a better idea of what you need. Build your lab project by project. That way the thing you buy will be the thing you need.

And don't forget that a lot of lab equipment is really un-sexy stuff like containers, funnels, filter paper, glass rod, thermometers, stands, clamps, burners, spatulas and scrapers. I am nearly a year into this and still don't have distillation glassware. But I have done some fun stuff with some basic otc chemicals and some simple beakers. In the absence of beakers I have used an old dinner set some flower pots, some buckets and an assortment of jars. (Boron thermite in a mug. Nice!)

My advice is to start doing first and improvise where needed. Buy gear when you discover that you actually need it.

Molecular Manipulations - 12-7-2015 at 23:26

That thermometer adaptor looks like a rubber stopper, not ideal.
Here's a better set IMO: http://m.aliexpress.com/item/788961046.html
For just under $200.00 it has everything the one you linked and more. I have bought from Aliexpress before and they are great, only problem is shipping from China, but hey S/H is free. Not bad for glassware. The glass is of good quality, not all China glass is.


image.jpg - 17kB

Just one thing, don't trust their thermometers, I've gotten a couple inaccurate ones from them, test them first.

[Edited on 13-7-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]

NedsHead - 13-7-2015 at 02:37

The distillation kit posted above by Molecular Manipulations looks identical to the Chinese kit I bought about 5 months ago when I took the plunge into home chemistry and it's been a real asset to have at hand.

I added an all glass thermometer pocket to my order and I'm glad I did because with it I can distill nitric acid and concentrate cheap battery acid. (paying for itself already)

For my needs this kit has been a great starting point that I have been able to add to and every piece has been useful, the RBF's are nice, thick glass as well.

I also recommend a quality glass thermometer to pair with the kit.

homegrown - 14-7-2015 at 04:30

I've gotten ripped off from alibaba before, not sure what this aliexpress thing is. Advice on how not to get ripped off?
Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations  
That thermometer adaptor looks like a rubber stopper, not ideal.
Here's a better set IMO: http://m.aliexpress.com/item/788961046.html
For just under $200.00 it has everything the one you linked and more. I have bought from Aliexpress before and they are great, only problem is shipping from China, but hey S/H is free. Not bad for glassware. The glass is of good quality, not all China glass is.




Just one thing, don't trust their thermometers, I've gotten a couple inaccurate ones from them, test them first.

[Edited on 13-7-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]

ChemPlayer_ - 14-7-2015 at 04:58

My advice on the place to start (because I just started 3 months ago and got back into this as a hobby after many years). These three things I seem to use in almost every single experiment I do in one way or another. Here's some tips I have learned mostly the hard way...

1. Filtration kit
- Porcelain buchner funnel, rubber stopper with hole to fit the funnel, thick walled conical filter flask which the stopper fits into.
- Some sort of vacuum pump. Note that for filtration it doesn't have to be superbly powerful. Modified bicycle pump (reverse the valve) might even work!
- Good quality filter paper (preferably strengthened so it's a bit more acid / alkali resistant).
- If you can find it / splash out, then a glass sinter (porosity grade 3 seems to suit most jobs I find).

2. Distillation kit
- Having all ground glass joints is a BIG plus, especially a proper fitted ground glass receiving adapter. Don't take any risks distilling anything flammable.
- If you get a choice, get a recieving adapter with a vacuum take-off - very useful for drying tubes, hoses for carrying fumes/gas away, and vacuum...
- A set of tubes which can connect up to a water pump snugly and fit to your condenser.
- An aquarium pump (buy the lowest power one you can find) for water pumping.
- A couple of stands with clamps so that everything is safe and secure.
- A heating mantle or hotplate (I use a 500ml capacity mantle for most things and we use it with 250ml flasks no problemo).
- As mentioned above, get the best thermometer you can afford - and don't forget the adapter to go with it so it fits in the still head.
- If you can get spare 'O' rings for the thermometer adapter. Don't know why but mine don't seem to last long... and they start to leak after a while.
- PTFE plumbers tape - for when the O rings start to fail :)

3. Hotplate / stirrer
- Preferably both in one unit which you can use multi-purpose.
- Don't forget to hunt around for a few different stir-bars!

My 2c...

Dr.Bob - 14-7-2015 at 04:59

Several people here have bought from Ebay, mostly Chinese made glassware with good luck. I would pick Synthware, but Labor has had good reviews here. Below are two conversations about it, or just use the search engine and look in Reagents and Apparatus for "Chinese glassware Ebay" to find more threads on it. There is also a lot of good used glassware on Ebay, but you must pick the better brands like Ace, Pyrex, Chemglass, etc, and stay away from unbranded or knock off names like Pyrox or the likes. I have sold used stuff there, but am running out of simple kits and flasks. But there are planty of US companies going under, so the supply is good right now.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=27694&...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24165&...

Texium - 14-7-2015 at 08:23

I've got beakers for sale right now at good prices: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=62910

I also recommend Synthware when it comes to Chinese glassware. Their equipment pretty much matches the old American made Pyrex/Kimax that I have in terms of quality.

Praxichys - 14-7-2015 at 08:55

Every so often I get to post this:

Some of the bare necessities:

1. A decent 0.01g (or better) scale. You can't do much if you can't weigh anything out!
2. Graduated cylinders. For the same reason as #1.
3. A device for heating and stirring - essential for solution preparation. Even a $20 Walmart hotplate, and a glass rod for stirring will be fine to start. Magnetic stirring and a set of various bars is really nice if you have the cash.
4. The containers mentioned in #3. A lot of great packs of beakers and Erlenmeyer flasks can be found online. It is good to get a variety of sizes, but double up on the ones in the 300-600ml range since you will probably use these the most. Get Erlenmeyer flasks with stoppers for oxidation sensitive things or stinky solvents.
5. A 1ml class A pasteur pipette and bulb. This is the best $5 you will ever spend. Coupled with the scale, it is an incredibly useful analytical tool for taking the density of liquid solutions, assessing gravimetrically the solubility of compounds, etc.
6. A partial immersion thermometer, and some closed-end capillaries to go with it. Melting point is also critical in assessing what you have and how pure it is. You can get a thiele tube if you want but a well-stirred oil or water bath works just as well.
7. A decently-sized (~100mm) porcelain buchner funnel, filter flask, and water aspirator. Waiting hours for things to fall through coffee filters is annoying, and will ruin compounds that you want to prepare anhydrous, or those that react with oxygen (which there are a surprising number of). Sometimes you can get the vacuum tap on the funnel and use a regular erlenmeyer to catch the filtrate. Don't bother with a hand pump for vacuum. They suck.
8. Storage. I started with cheap canning jars. Freund Container and Specialty Bottle are great places to get lots of containers for both solids and liquids.

You will find that there will be lots more incidental things you need to make your life easier - spatulas, funnels, a mortar and pestle, a torch, pH paper, a burette, wash bottles, a sep funnel, syringes, pipettes and droppers, test tubes, etc. I would suggest buying these as you see fit. Skip the expensive stuff to start - I still use plastic spoons from the grocery store and funnels from the auto parts store even though I have glass ones... simply because glass is expensive, fragile, and not always necessary. If you buy the stuff as you need it, you will eventually end up with a well-stocked lab.

You may have all of that already though. The next step starts getting expensive, and that is the distillation stuff. This level gets ugly on the budget really fast.

The best way to start is to pick up a kit. Cheap Chinese distillation kits are worth it. You will break things. Everyone tells themselves that they are not like the others and they will be very careful, all the time... me included. I still have a glassware graveyard full of newbie mistakes. I would be much more angry if the broken crap wasn't cheapie glass from China! Shatter your glass, not your bank account. The worst part about Chinaware is that it takes like 15 days to ship.

I currently have all 24/40 stuff. 24/29 is also common in Chinese glass. I started with 19/22 because I was being cheap... I ended up selling it shortly thereafter because the stuff was just too small to be useful for anything involving large amounts of solvents or purifying OTC chems, and 19/22 was hard to find apparatus for.

Get a kit corresponding to what your budget allows. A simple 500ml distillation kit with a 300mm leibig will suffice for most purposes. Keep in mind that if you break just one piece, the whole thing is unusable until you get the replacement part - hence the beauty of bigger kits where you get multiple condensers, extra flasks, and extra adapters. This is also why it is nice to go with Chinese glass to start. Getting one with a Vigreux column enables you to fractionate better and you will be able to do a lot more with your kit. Again, get the biggest one that still fits your budget with some wiggle room for incidentals. I would also suggest picking up at least one multi-neck flask.

Keep in mind that you need to figure out:

1. A heating system for the boiling flask. You can use a hotplate/oil bath/water bath heating system for the flask (which suck!), with a lab jack (or wood blocks, as I used to do...) so you can remove it from heating if you need to. You will be unable to stir unless the hotplate has a magnetic stirrer. A heating mantle is better, but you will also need a variac to control the temperature. A 1000mL heating/stirring mantle is ideal for amateur scale stuff; I have two of them. Unfortunately they are also very expensive.
2. You will need the ability to circulate water through the condenser - It can be a hose on a water tap or a pump in a bucket. Keep this in mind when you make your budget list. A pump is a lot more expensive than 10 feet of vinyl tubing from the hardware store.
3. Invest in good quality clamps and stands (which are annoyingly expensive!) or you will be like me and break a bunch of glass trying to use homemade ones.
4. Finally, consider building a fume hood. You may have been able to get away with it up until this point, but boiling stuff inherently involves fumes - potentially unhealthy, flammable, etc. Now is the time to invest in something that could save your life/house or prevent you from working outside all the time.

And then there is the miscellaneous junk like joint grease, boiling chips, keck clips, thermometer O-rings, storage flasks with stoppers, addition funnels, flask brushes, claisen and thermometer adapters, extra stoppers, etc. I won't even get started on chroma columns, microscopes, gas washing, etc.

I do have a lot of ace/wilmad/kimble/kontes/kimax/pyrex/chemglass stuff but almost all of it is used and was purchased on ebay. I am just now getting to the point where I can justify the purchase of expensive stuff because I am dealing with some pretty nasty chems, airless chemistry, etc. I wouldn't worry about glass quality since it's all 3.3 boro glass, Chinese or not, and almost every Chinese place I have bought from will refund for any defect or breakage in shipping.

Anyway, on top of all of that are the chemicals. If you need OTC sources for chems, I can definitely point you in the right direction.

eBay is the greatest place to get stuff, and Amazon after that. I can point you toward my favorite sellers if you're interested.

I realize that was a bit of a ramble, but I hope it helps a little. If you have any questions about something specific, I will be glad to help!