Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Mom-and-pop lemonade-stand-style ways to make quick legal cash from chemistry

Mom-and-pop lemonade-stand-style ways to make quick legal cash from chemistry

Cou - 22-3-2015 at 07:10

Of course when you read that title, you thought "meth cooking", meth cooks make a ton of money from their chemistry knowledge, by selling a product on the street that has VERY high demand and low supply. All of this being done without a formal business, simply a lemonade-stand operation (make meth, walk to streets, sell, cash, done).

But I am not promoting meth cooking. The problem with making money from chemistry is that the USA is capitalist and doesn't want low to middle-class citizens making their own cash from a lemonade stand business. Would rather they make that cash by being a proletariat and working for a big company, be part of the working class. So the USA makes tons of laws and regulations making it very difficult to sell stuff on the street, lemonade-stand-style, without an official business and licenses.

In the pre-industrial days, the working class wasn't nearly as strong as it is now. Before the industrial revolution, and for most of post-agriculture society, individual families made money from their own little hobbies in their house. Be it a blacksmith who makes money by selling steel weapons, a tailor who sells clothes from their own house, etc. The people who were equivalent wealth as of today's working class, didn't make money as much by working for a huge company.

And this brings me to chemistry. With my chemistry knowledge, if I don't have enough money to buy factory space and start an official business, what are some legal things that I could sell to the public, in a lemonade stand fashion? If wintergreen (methyl salicylate) isn't toxic, the best thing I can think of is wintergreen flavored liquor. Or diethyl ether. But drug-making isn't in the spirit of this forum. So what about something utilitarian, some kind of homebrew cleaning product?

Chemosynthesis - 22-3-2015 at 07:27

Quote: Originally posted by Cou

The problem with making money from chemistry is that the USA is capitalist and doesn't want low to middle-class citizens making their own cash from a lemonade stand business. Would rather they make that cash by being a proletariat and working for a big company, be part of the working class. So the USA makes tons of laws and regulations making it very difficult to sell stuff on the street, lemonade-stand-style, without an official business and licenses.

What a fascinating definition of 'capitalism.'

If you want to make money, look at what is in demand. Perhaps some soaps or perfumery supplies, assuming you can offer a superior product in some form, and/or at a lower price (doubtful on the latter). You most likely need to distinguish your products in some proprietary fashion.

Cou - 22-3-2015 at 07:34

If only I knew anything about organic chemistry beyond functional groups... then perfumes made of various fruit-scented esters would be doable.

Another interesting idea: Using those same banana/orange/grape artificial flavorings to make extracts similar to food coloring which can be put on food.

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by Cou]

Amos - 22-3-2015 at 07:35

Methyl salicylate is pretty toxic. Doses as low as 10mL can be fatal, even less for children.

morganbw - 22-3-2015 at 08:16

Young Cou,
Perhaps essential oils, not synthesized as such but extracted.
Big item in aromatic therapy and perfume, soaps, etc.... Could work well in a niche market/possibly.
Glad you are still here and please leave meth out of your every post, not a healthy thing to think about continually.

aga - 22-3-2015 at 09:38

If you're new to something, such as Business, take a look at what other people are doing.

Also Talk to them - the worst they can do is tell you to f**k off, although people usually love to talk about themselves at great length.

If you see, for example, a hotdog stand on a street corner every day, you can safely assume that they are making enough money to want to keep coming back each day to do it again.

From this you can conclude that people buy those hotdogs from that place every day, and that it makes a profit.

Do some more observation, and ask people questions, such as 'would you have preferred a Burger to a Hotdog ?' and 'how far did you walk (and from where) to get that hotdog ?'.

The simplest thing is to simply Copy a working business as best you can, but asking questions sometimes reveals a better way to make more money.

Walk before Run and all that.

Hellafunt - 22-3-2015 at 09:54

Like Chemosynthesis indicated above, you will never be able to compete in the low price battlefield. The only ways left to distinguish ones product in the market place is higher quality or unusual offerings. Despite the "anti Mom and Pop laws "you mentioned Cou, there are ways for the little guy to bring his goods to the public.
It is very cheap to rent a table at a weekend farmers market or swap meet. Give out samples. Use eye catching packaging. If you are selling an extract you made, have a distillation set up on your table, it will draw folks over to check it out like a magnet. People respond to seeing the face behind the product. If you are there to answer questions, and you are polite and patient, you will do great. I speak from experience.

mayko - 22-3-2015 at 10:53

This might not make you a millionaire, but it might help some of your issues with finding a supportive community and working space: have you thought about a chemical hackerspace? The notion pops up on the forum from time to time. You might look into local, existing spaces and see if they would be interested in branching out.

I mention this in particular because, even if your business model hinges on home chemistry somehow, it's still going to require some amount of additional infrastructure. For example, suppose I decided to sell small samples of copper salts, melted inside glass, as jewelry. Yes, this is a chemistry project, but there's also the glass-processing aspect, the metalworking aspect, the need for art supplies and maybe photography for marketing... you may not have all this on hand! By working with an extant, open structure, you might get access to the additional tools and skills you'll need to provide backup.

You'll also be opening the door for people who are already there, who know a lot about electronics but not about chemistry. You'd have a more flexible liability climate to work in. Your parents would see you working in an environment with allegedly competent humans, and maybe worry less. You might even be able to offset some of your fees with chemistry shows!

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by mayko]

Etaoin Shrdlu - 22-3-2015 at 11:37

Quote: Originally posted by Cou

If only I knew anything about organic chemistry beyond functional groups... then perfumes made of various fruit-scented esters would be doable.

If you are curious about perfume, try here. https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-88-aroma-and-flavor-m...

Great selection of workhorse aroma chemicals available in small quantities, and run by one of the nicest people I've ever dealt with. If you find yourself really interested, a lot of these can be converted into more exotic chemicals with methods accessible to the hobbyist.

NexusDNA - 22-3-2015 at 11:57

The chemistry of essential oils and artificial perfumes, by Ernest J. Parry (1922/4th ed.) is a good book for learning "osmophores" and perfume making in general. A little old, but the chemistry is almost always right.

Arctander's Perfume and Flavor Chemicals is terrific. It's a joy to take a walk and know what molecules you smell along the way! Look for it in references.

@ES, that's nice! If only I had something like it here... I'd probably waste all my chemistry savings on these!

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by NexusDNA]

aga - 22-3-2015 at 12:26

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu

If you are curious about perfume, try here. https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-88-aroma-and-flavor-m...

Thanks Etaoin.

After today's bouts with H₂S that was just the thing i needed.

Ordered their Aromachemical Kit to see if i can make any Better smells.

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by aga]

Cou - 22-3-2015 at 12:56

I know drug making is frowned upon here, but after looking through every law, just to be sure it's legal, you could sell legal highs from ordinary ethanol to diethyl ether.

EDIT: scratch ethanol, because it has so many regulations

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by Cou]

aga - 22-3-2015 at 13:15

Scratch any mind-altering chemical idea unless you're prepared to make quite a lot of money for short time, then wind up either in prison or dead.

In that Game, there's the Law, then there's the Unlawful, both of which carry and use guns in their daily business.

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by aga]

morganbw - 22-3-2015 at 13:17

I think that drug making is frowned on from an individual perspective ( neutral from this forum ).
Cookery request are definitely a no go. Talk science, present references. etc... then all is open.
Young Cou, know that from my perspective that I worry about you and your train of thoughts.
Small steps please.

morganbw - 22-3-2015 at 13:19

Quote: Originally posted by aga

Scratch any mind-altering chemical idea unless you're prepared to make quite a lot of money for short time, then wind up wither in prison or dead.

In that Game, there's the Law, then there's the Unlawful, both of which carry and use guns in their daily business.

You beat me to it ( different words, same intent )

aga - 22-3-2015 at 13:29

Same attempt at guiding away from a path that leads mostly to imprisonment (60%) or death (39.99%).

Chemosynthesis - 22-3-2015 at 14:02

There is a legal reason most research chemical companies are not in the United States. Even if ostensibly legal, the civil liability in selling something which, if sold for consumption is illegal, with zero toxicology testing... it can be high due to unethicality. Recent deaths have really cast the research chemical arena negatively, and governments respond. Plenty of places selling legal highs have been raided in the US and UK, as well as Israel. If you were to manufacture in any sizeable quantity, and if you were able to compete with Chinese and Indian chemists, which I doubt, I expect you to get on someone's radar. And you could still face criminal prosecution.

Essential oils can be extremely expensive per mass as they are very dilute. Cornering a local market would be key, but this may preclude expansion.

I do think this is all probably dangerously close to chemistry for commercial purposes argued against in the guidelines, so I do find it interesting being discussed.
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=19...

[Edited on 22-3-2015 by Chemosynthesis]

WGTR - 22-3-2015 at 14:18

I live in Texas, and have run my own business before. Establishing one's self and making money takes hard work. It can take several years to gain traction, and begin growing a business into a profitable enterprise. This is not because "the man" is trying to keep you down. It's just a fact of life. It takes innovation and hard work, otherwise everyone else would be doing it. Capitalism is great. In my world, there's no such thing as "easy money".

A lot of electronics hobbyists don't know chemistry. All they know is that a circuit board put into ferric chloride magically loses its copper, and that after a while it doesn't work anymore. One idea that pops into mind is to see if local electronics stores or clubs would be interested in having you make etchant for them. The stuff is usually expensive in local stores. It would be a small market for sure, but...baby steps...

Pyro - 22-3-2015 at 14:39

My friend who used to be a real estate broker pitched something similar to this to me a few months ago.
He had the opportunity to buy a business (including chems, formulas, client basis, rental of location,...) that made artisanal paint strippers, art restoration stuff and furniture products, for 40 000$ because he knew the previous owner who was retiring.
He wanted to go 50-50 with me because he knew I was a ''chemistry guru'' as he called it and he thought that together, we could make a decent profit. The only problem is that I don't have nearly that much money...

aga - 22-3-2015 at 14:47

Quote: Originally posted by Pyro

He wanted to go 50-50 with me

Alarm bells ringing !

Business is a thing you do alone.

There is a saying: The only Ship that never sails is a Partnership.

Accept the fear and do it all yourself, avoiding the horrors of having Partners (in business).

Done that Twice, and lost a friend, plus a lot of time and money both times.

j_sum1 - 22-3-2015 at 15:28

My intention is to slowly perfect a few of the syntheses and display techniques that I have been doing for my element collection. Then when I do something in my lab I can make some spares and flog them off on eBay. If, say, I am producing and ampouling some bromine or chlorine, it will take negligible more effort to do batches of twenty than it does to produce one. It is never going to be that profitable but if it gives the occasional bit of spare change to help me buy the next reagent then it will be ok.
I have some ideas for gas discharge tubes, a handful of elements and metal crystals. I need to get better at working with glass and display resins. Early days yet.

Pyro - 22-3-2015 at 15:58

Aga, that is one of the reasons I decined, another was that this guy may be a good friend and from a good family (He is of nobility) but he is unpredictable!

50-50 can work though!
Right now I am in a 50-50 venture (boutique hotel and later private club on my boat) since my dad has had a brain hemorrhage and won't be back for at least a year.
So I figured I may as well use the boat for making some money...

subsecret - 23-3-2015 at 14:57

Pesticides.

aga - 23-3-2015 at 15:19

I only met 1 long term Partnership business that worked for a long time.

It *can* work, just that human nature generally means that it doesn't.

j_sum1 - 23-3-2015 at 15:40

Quote: Originally posted by aga

I only met 1 long term Partnership business that worked for a long time.

It *can* work, just that human nature generally means that it doesn't.

I am not certain that is the meaning of a "Mom and Pop chemistry business" that the OP intended.

DraconicAcid - 23-3-2015 at 15:57

Quote: Originally posted by subsecret

Pesticides.

Artisanal pesticides, with citronella and lemon oil added.

cyanureeves - 23-3-2015 at 15:58

you can make soaps too but most soaps are expensive and its cheaper to just buy Dial or irish spring.my favorite soap is patchouli and it works as a mosquito repellent as well.compost could sell if you have the time and space but if you cant keep up with demand then your business will end quick.the public is fickle and unforgiving!

gregxy - 24-3-2015 at 11:25

Special sparklers or colored smoke pots. 4th of July is not far off.

Cou - 26-3-2015 at 14:08

The best thing that doesn't require exotic organic reagents, would be extractions of food-grade products such as caffeine from black tea, vanillin from vanilla extract, capsaicin from ghost peppers, and selling those white powders at the farmers market. But you would have to ensure they are food grade... make sure none of the extraction reagents such as dichloromethane are mixed in there.

morganbw - 26-3-2015 at 14:14

Quote: Originally posted by Cou

The best thing that doesn't require exotic organic reagents, would be extractions of food-grade products such as caffeine from black tea, vanillin from vanilla extract, capsaicin from ghost peppers, and selling those white powders at the farmers market. But you would have to ensure they are food grade... make sure none of the extraction reagents such as dichloromethane are mixed in there.

You are near reason here. Lots to do, effing legal as well.

aga - 26-3-2015 at 14:19

Do the research : nothing has much of a chance of Success without putting in the Work to do the research.

All you need to do is go Observe, and ask Questions : find out what people would actually give you money for.

This essential part is far from Rocket Science, yet is vital.

When you go ask, and they say 'I'd like something to stop mosquitos biting me' then you get an idea of what they will give you money for.

Bert - 26-3-2015 at 15:00

Make Copper benzoate and offer it to amateur pyrotechnists who like to use ammonium oerchlorate for blue stars. Glaze/ceramics grade Copper carbonate, food grade benzoic acid.

aga - 26-3-2015 at 15:13

That'd be a bit Niche.

The idea is to make some 'quick money'.

Top be fair, meth would be the straightest solution.

To avoid getting banged up or killed, perhaps there are Cop labs that would welcome some independent lab making small quantities of meth via various Kitchen methods in order to more exactly tailor their detection methods.

That would be fun, if there were paperwork given and guarantees of security.

Loptr - 26-3-2015 at 16:33

Quote: Originally posted by aga

That'd be a bit Niche.

The idea is to make some 'quick money'.

Top be fair, meth would be the straightest solution.

To avoid getting banged up or killed, perhaps there are Cop labs that would welcome some independent lab making small quantities of meth via various Kitchen methods in order to more exactly tailor their detection methods.

That would be fun, if there were paperwork given and guarantees of security.

You are talking about DEA licenses and security environments with specific storage units, documentation, records, etc., etc. This is half the battle when any group wants to experiment with scheduled substances. It's the darn overhead and costs that make them look elsewhere.

Oh, believe me, they will take your sample, and then lock your ass in the slammer! lol

No thank you!

SimpleChemist-238 - 20-7-2015 at 23:12

Nitrous oxide? Diethyl ether? If its legal their is a market!

The Volatile Chemist - 21-7-2015 at 14:09

Sigh, why? Just do reagent resale on ebay or something if you want to use your chem knowledge to make some change. Or sell Lemonade on ebay. That'd make even more money.

blogfast25 - 21-7-2015 at 17:42

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

Or sell Lemonade on ebay. That'd make even more money.

Do you really believe that? Sure, pocket money can be earned, before they shut you down for non-compliance to food hygiene regulations (and should people really be allowed to sell non-regulated foods to the general public?)

Capitalism ain't called that for nothing: getting set-up legally and profitably costs a lot of money (capital). And even then you'll be up against Big Brands.

Zephyr - 21-7-2015 at 17:54

Step one: Go to nearby university surplus store.
Step two: Buy quality Pyrex glassware cheap.
Step three: Sell on ebay for $$$.
But whatever you do don't go the UW surplus.... they always have terrible selection

The Volatile Chemist - 27-7-2015 at 11:27

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

Or sell Lemonade on ebay. That'd make even more money.

From all the jokes I make, I'm surprised you didn't see that was sarcasm. I think the whole idea is silly. Small shops, though, could be a good setup, resale is good, I guess.
Blogfast, do you own Oxford Chem, or does Bert?

deltaH - 27-7-2015 at 13:28

I've looked into this very problem quite heavily. My best advice is everytime you meet someone new, even when you have your car fixed, tell them "I'm a chemist, do you have a problem I might be able to help you with".

A big part of smart innovation is identifying the problem. People who work in an industry are 1000X better at identifying a really big problem you would never have guessed and believe me, they are very happy to tell you all about it.

As the chemist, you simply need to design a solution... usually the easy bit actually.

Case in point:

Just the other day (ok more like a year ago

) when repairing the air-con in my car, the mechanic (after telling him the above) said that they spend a small fortune on aluminium flux powder and asked if I could make it for them. They even offered to act as an agent to sell to other mechanics they know off who use the stuff :cool:

It was not difficult digging through some old expired patents to find out how to make the stuff, not that I did, but that's another story.

[Edited on 27-7-2015 by deltaH]

blogfast25 - 27-7-2015 at 13:38

Quote: Originally posted by deltaH

Just the other day (ok more like a year ago

It was not difficult digging through some old expired patents to find out how to make the stuff, not that I did, but that's another story.

So if I understand you well, you're sitting on a small goldmine but have decided to stay poor nonetheless?

I think I may have spotted a small flaw in your business model though: things may sometimes be cheap to produce but producers need to make a profit. That involves a large number of costs, aka the 'cost of sales'. If running successful businesses was easy, we'd all be millionaires. QED.

blogfast25 - 27-7-2015 at 13:47

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

Blogfast, do you own Oxford Chem, or does Bert?

Yes, it's me. Hard work to make some money, trust me!

aga - 27-7-2015 at 14:04

Work = $

Smart work = $$$

the equation is very simple.

The hard part is coming up with a Plan.

The Harder part is Sticking to it, not allowing any other distractions to turn you away from the Plan.

blogfast25 - 27-7-2015 at 14:10

aga:

I think your upcoming book ('How to run a Successful Business') may be the shortest book in history! And 3 Chapters only!

macckone - 27-7-2015 at 14:20

It is the business part that is hard.
The legal mumbo jumbo actually does serve a purpose.
It keeps honest people honest.
Dishonest chemists become drug manufacturers.

That and burning rivers aren't good to drink.
If everyone had a chemistry lab and didn't
dispose of chemicals correctly think what it
would do to the water and air.

We like to make things that smell and go boom,
but that isn't a really good thing for the neighbors.

blogfast25 - 27-7-2015 at 14:51

Quote: Originally posted by macckone

It is the business part that is hard.
The legal mumbo jumbo actually does serve a purpose.
It keeps honest people honest.

G-d yeah, that explains why banks that were 'too big to fail' were rewarded for their incompetence/criminality with billions of bail out money!

aga - 27-7-2015 at 15:38

3 chapters:

#1 1000
#2 1000000

still working on book #3

Powers of Ten are tricky.
Binary is easier.

blogfast25 - 27-7-2015 at 16:04

Try powers of complex numbers:

(a + bi)3

(Easier than you might think, BTW)

[Edited on 28-7-2015 by blogfast25]

Corrosive Joeseph - 28-7-2015 at 09:14

Anyone looking to make 'quick legal cash' in business will probably fail.

These things take years..........................

But if someone is hellbent on making money from chemistry l would recommend soaps, perfumes and essential oils.

The latter two are quite expensive in small amounts.....................

kecskesajt - 28-7-2015 at 11:26

Get a goat like I had.But only had because the lack of time.
Only get it if you have time.Friendly,can replace a lawn-moover and makes milk--->fat--->soap---->add your artifical dyes and oils.Healty lifestyle following people will love it.Personal experience:made my skin more mostionised and resistant to weather.

blogfast25 - 28-7-2015 at 11:35

Quote: Originally posted by Corrosive Joeseph

But if someone is hellbent on making money from chemistry l would recommend soaps, perfumes and essential oils.

Prepare to blow a ton of cash on branding. It's the brand that sells these things, not the 'ding an sich'...

aga - 28-7-2015 at 11:58

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25

Try powers of complex numbers:

(a + bi)3

When it comes to Money, i prefer equations yielding Real Numbers rather than Imaginary (presuming i2 gives a real number, so times i again should go imaginary again).

The thing about Making Money is that it is an entire paradigm itself.

First Law of Dosh : forget what you Like doing if you want to make Money.

Basically you tend to have to do things you do Not want to do for Money.

This is the definition of Work (in this context).

[Edited on 28-7-2015 by aga]

The Volatile Chemist - 29-7-2015 at 09:36

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25

Try powers of complex numbers:

(a + bi)3

(Easier than you might think, BTW)

[Edited on 28-7-2015 by blogfast25]

De Moivre's theorem for polar form, right?

blogfast25 - 29-7-2015 at 09:47

(cos θ + i sin θ)n = cos nθ + i sin nθ

If you like. Or you can do it the old fashioned way.

[Edited on 29-7-2015 by blogfast25]

Metal finishing

James Ikanov - 1-10-2015 at 10:18

Perhaps a bit late to the show, but I'd bet there's some good money in finishing metal with chemical or electro-chemical means.

I know anodizing aluminum can be done with a fairly simple home-brew setup, along with bluing. I bet there's a small market for experimenting with metal oxide finishes and a lot of money in finding a quick and cheap process for effectively getting steel to take and hold a coating of a homogeneous magnetite surface.

Other than that the only things that come to mind are basically demolition with exotic explosives and high tolerance applications (in other words, when it absolutely positively has to be completely vaporized inside of unique constraints of some kind) and producing actual pharmaceuticals of some kind at a local level.

Not sure how much money there is in the second one, but if you got an operation making morphine or morphine derivatives (things like Desomorphine) and sold them to places like actual hospitals, I'm sure you could undercut shipping costs if you lived in a remote area.

That said the previous two require intensive licensing and tread a fine line of legality. I'd rather stick to finishing metal parts or perhaps something like science themed snack food; it sounds silly, but I bet you could get a lot of nerds to pay 2-3 bucks for a cup of coffee brewed in plain sight in some clean glassware. I know that there are a few tutorials on making a simple system like that out of readily available glassware, and scaling it up ought to be a fairly simple proposal. Heck, you could even make actual lemonade in glassware. Plenty of people might buy something just like that.

[Edited on 1-10-2015 by James Ikanov]

BOBardment - 7-1-2019 at 17:19

Essential(Fragrance) oil, precious metal recovery, selling stuff to your local hobbist say like the dude making model rockets two streets down. There is a lot of ways to make money, it's just that local business tends to have a hard time maintaining a stable income because there isn't that much consumer...

clearly_not_atara - 7-1-2019 at 18:20

Perhaps you could sell lemonade? I've heard of people drinking "chemist's lemonade" which generally comprises 0.0001M HCl and sucrose. Obviously you'd have to get food-grade HCl but after that it's a simple exercise in dilution.

Herr Haber - 8-1-2019 at 07:28

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

Essential(Fragrance) oil, precious metal recovery, selling stuff to your local hobbist say like the dude making model rockets two streets down. There is a lot of ways to make money, it's just that local business tends to have a hard time maintaining a stable income because there isn't that much consumer...

Oils & perfume: great, you've read the thread
Precious metal recovery: You havent researched the topic or you're worst at maths than I am. I can tell you that unless you do this on the industrial level it's not gonna work.
Making model rockets: wanna bet it's heavily regulated wherever you are ?

Really, no need to resurect this thread if it's for this kind of contribution (talking out of your ass)

morganbw - 8-1-2019 at 07:37

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara

Perhaps you could sell lemonade? I've heard of people drinking "chemist's lemonade" which generally comprises 0.0001M HCl and sucrose. Obviously you'd have to get food-grade HCl but after that it's a simple exercise in dilution.

I am actually tempted to try this. I would just like to know the taste.
With that dilution, it should for sure be safe.
Well, another experiment in my queue, so many, sadly the arrow of time is working against me.

BOBardment - 8-1-2019 at 11:59

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

You are not recovering everything if you need alot to make money.
Also don't assume everyone is a dipshit just because you are

Because the rockets are not regulated. To the point no one can do it.

Mr. Rogers - 8-1-2019 at 14:50

I was going to say essential oils and perfumery but then I read the thread also

.

There's also a niche market for specialized pigments and dyes that are no longer widely available. There's also certain religious groups that have interest in compounded botanical formulations.

[Edited on 8-1-2019 by Mr. Rogers]

Herr Haber - 9-1-2019 at 04:44

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

You are not recovering everything if you need alot to make money.
Also don't assume everyone is a dipshit just because you are

Because the rockets are not regulated. To the point no one can do it.

I only assume what I can assume from your post histwhorry.
The part about me not recovering everything is... funny.

By the way, enlighten us, where is this fantastic land you're at where I can build and sell rocket engines freely without regulations?

BOBardment - 9-1-2019 at 19:18

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

You are not recovering everything if you need alot to make money.
Also don't assume everyone is a dipshit just because you are

Because the rockets are not regulated. To the point no one can do it.

Alright, let's backtrack a bit so we don't have to talk more about asses and shits.
Maybe I was being clear enough, the guy doesn't make rocket engines, he makes model rockets. The small one-off thing that flies a bit and just fells to the ground. And about the scraping metal part, it's true. You are not doing it correctly if you need an industry working for you to make money.

There is two major things people scrap for precious metal, scrap jewelry and e-waste. I personally prefer jewelry because they are easier to deal with, not very complicated composition of metals, usually just gold silver. Then there is e-waste, which is probably what you said "need an industrial-sized factory" for. E-wastes are messy and often times hard to make a profit off of but if you are doing it correctly it can be done easily at your home not at an industrial scale. The big thing with e-waste is to forget about the gold, scarp all the metals. E-wastes often contain other metal just as expensive if not more then gold. Even though they are in smaller quantity they can still make up a percentage of your income. Proper pricing is also an important part, some of the wastes are better off just sold as scarp rather than washing the gold off them, and collecting wires/aluminum/fans/motors is also a huge part of scraping. Basically, to make money scraping you have to really focus on the scraping part instead of making a certain type of product out of the e-waste.

happyfooddance - 9-1-2019 at 19:35

Model rockets are pretty well regulated, in the US and in many other jurisdictions that from time to time pass laws to protect their citizens. Here is some U.S. relevant info:

https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/section-guidebook/laws...

Remeber, what goes up comes down; and also, if it is built to fly through the air fast, it is built to fall through the air fast, too.

Edit: Actually, there are guidlines to their construction, but making and selling amateur rockets seems to be pretty legal, at least by federal U.S. law:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2006/08/11/06-6862...

They even say that a big part of the reason that people aren't forced to get permits is that it would be too much stress on the ATF's already strained resources, because too many people already make and sell them, and then they go on to quote the statistics on that.

[Edited on 1-10-2019 by happyfooddance]

BOBardment - 9-1-2019 at 19:54

Had a couple typos in there... Too lazy to fix it

BOBardment - 9-1-2019 at 20:14

Quote: Originally posted by happyfooddance

Model rockets are pretty well regulated, in the US and in many other jurisdictions that from time to time pass laws to protect their citizens. Here is some U.S. relevant info:

https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/section-guidebook/laws...

Remeber, what goes up comes down; and also, if it is built to fly through the air fast, it is built to fall through the air fast, too.

Edit: Actually, there are guidlines to their construction, but making and selling amateur rockets seems to be pretty legal, at least by federal U.S. law:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2006/08/11/06-6862...

They even say that a big part of the reason that people aren't forced to get permits is that it would be too much stress on the ATF's already strained resources, because too many people already make and sell them, and then they go on to quote the statistics on that.

[Edited on 1-10-2019 by happyfooddance]

You are assuming he is going to mess up and kill people.
Over an example I gave for a suggestion.
I'm going to give two response to this... First of all, he can do it safely, I wouldn't sell something to someone I know is unstable and dangerous.
Second of all, once the stuff is out of my hands I'm not responsible for whatever it does. Selling a gun might be just as bad as pulling the trigger but you are going nowhere charging metal foundries.

Twospoons - 9-1-2019 at 20:40

Paint pigments or dyes might be a winner. I'm sure there are plenty of artists would love to play with making their own paints, especially given the weird things that get turned into art these days.
Have you seen the eye-watering prices of artist grade paint?

fusso - 10-1-2019 at 03:25

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara

What?! One can prepare food then sell it to the public without a license in US?!

[Edited on 190110 by fusso]

Herr Haber - 10-1-2019 at 08:35

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

Maybe I was being clear enough, the guy doesn't make rocket engines, he makes model rockets. The small one-off thing that flies a bit and just fells to the ground.

No, you're not clear at all and I'm trying to say it as nicely as possible. "The guy two streets down" is not you so you cant really say how he runs his business.
Are these rockets propelled by a rubber band or by a chemical composition ? If the latter, then good luck with your local authorities when they bust you. There's just no way you can market a product like this and get away with it. If you can, better do coke --> More money.

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

And about the scraping metal part, it's true. You are not doing it correctly if you need an industry working for you to make money.

That's not what I said and you said PMR, not scrap metal.
I said you'd have to do it on an industrial level to be worth it. Buy, refine, sell, make a worldwide business starting from your garage. It has happened but good luck to do that nowadays.

Unless someone gives you the metals you're still gonna have to get them somehow.
Scrap e-waste might be a source that you actually get for free. You still have a lot of work before it can be processed for extraction. But you're damn right about other metals than gold and this would be my interest if I went this way.
Buying jewelry is another option for gold, silver and with luck a bit of other metals.
There is just no way in Hell I'm going to explain to every moron on earth why I wont be buying spot price "duh!". I tried a couple of times and got hanged upon !
Unless you manage to somehow get jewelry well below spot price you're gonna lose.
I dont know how much you value your time, I know how much I value mine. Or how my employer values my time.
I also have a fairly good idea on what taxes I have to pay to whom just for running a business from my appartment.
I know how much 1 liter of HNO3 costs me. About the same as if I were to buy 25 liters but in industrial quantities. (Fine: make your own acid. How long to get a liter and how much is your time worth).
More importantly I know I cant purify a metal to 99.99 in one run. Especially silver.
Lets forget about the stamps, pen and paper and small costs like that.
And now, for the grand finale... A 15 % tax on precious metal sales. Doesnt change anything: I was already losing money before that. I love my country :-/

Still unconvinced ? Ok, take all the above parameters, the ones I certainly forgot and let me give you 1kg of silver solder !
Do the maths yourself. Be generous, there's 50% silver in that solder (Holy effing Christ ! Silver price has taken a dive since last time I checked). Now, you've made 215 Euros (because you are Super Chemist and got 500 grams of silver in one run), spent a few days, invested some money in hardware, more in chemicals and... Wait, I'm better off with my employer !

Now, there are a few ways this can be profitable:
- Use eBay and maybe avoid some state taxes. Ebay still takes its share. Plus, they already rat you out to the authorities when you make more than a set threshold (2500 Euros / year here) so I'm willing to bet they are smart enough to collect special taxes or rat you out for that too)
- Look for niche markets: silver nitrate, silver or gold in powder or other form that your buyers will value more than a metal bar.

Quote: Originally posted by BOBardment

He, I, SWIM ? Stop being so much on the defensive and use some common sense.

You are going to be liable if something bad happens no matter how you look at it anywhere in the world. Try to sell guns to bank robbers. Wanna bet you'll share a cell ?
At the bare minimum you could be charged for selling illegal fireworks which in many places isnt that different from selling explosives.

You will always be subjected to regulations if you work with controlled substances...

And again to be clear, you will be hold liable if you sell a rocket that self ignites and burns down your buyers house.
Even if that's only by him and his shotgun.

Jackson - 10-1-2019 at 09:02

Just sell meat essential oils. Steam distil meat and sell the juice that comes over.

clearly_not_atara - 10-1-2019 at 13:25

Quote:

- Look for niche markets: silver nitrate, silver or gold in powder or other form that your buyers will value more than a metal bar.

this x1000

AgNO3 costs so much more than Ag spot it's frankly hilarious. i'd also be tempted to make and sell the methanesulfonate, which is just as good (soluble) but nobody would buy it because they don't know wtf it is. nobody gets gassed with NOx while making silver methanesulfonate.

if you want to make money, though, step 1 is know your market. you could probably make and sell chemicals to amateur photographers or perfumieres or painters or whatever. first you have to figure out what those people want and how to give it to them. maybe you could also sell custom-designed plastic trinkets if you learn to make polymers.

one thing i would NOT do, is sell cleaning products. actual real life chemical engineers spend all of their time trying to figure out how to make better and cheaper and safer cleaning products and they have entire factories at their disposal. also no food and nothing that burns unless you want to ride the partyvan.

one particular idea i had was making your own phosphorescent pigments. the downside is, it's INCREDIBLY hard to get the stupid things pure enough that they actually work. 1 ppm Fe will completely ruin your SrAl2O4. but if you do manage to make a pigment, you might be able to make other stuff out of it, like a glowing hat or something.

the other downside is that this is one of the more boring kinds of chemistry, just repeatedly purifying some minerals, and that ties back in to why it's hard to have a fun job. the things that need to be done usually aren't that fun. otherwise they'd get done

CharlieA - 10-1-2019 at 18:04

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara

What is the point of this lemonade? The pH of gastric acid (essentially HCl is 1.5 to 3.5; the pH of 0.0001M HCl is 4. I suspect one couldn't taste the difference between "chemist's lemonade" and just lemonade. Has anyone actually tried this? (And if so, why?) What was the result?

clearly_not_atara - 10-1-2019 at 18:20

Guess again sweaty

All of the small carboxylic acids have their own characteristic flavor. This is most noticeable with acetic acid (vinegar), but it is also pretty easy to notice with citric acid or lactic acid. In the latter case, the characteristic taste is quite foul, which is why food is practically never flavored with lactic acid intentionally, although it occurs naturally in yogurt. See also why Greek yogurt is so popular: the lactic acid has been removed.

HCl by contrast is practically odorless and tasteless when it's diluted to a drinkable concentration. It generates a pure sourness with little other noticeable flavor. Or at least that's the story I've been told since i've never made it lmao.

Also, gastric pH climbs when you eat, but the figure I usually hear quoted for empty stomach is 2, which is 100x more acidic than 4. That's not exactly a small difference. Unsurprisingly, bulimics tend to suffer severe tooth decay.

Steam - 15-6-2019 at 17:17

One possibility would be a chemical distributor sourt of how chemsavers are. They have buying contracts with a couple "big-boys" in the reagent/laboratory business. After an individual buys a chemical through them (via ebay or their website), they phone in a order through their suppliers. After they recieve the shipment, they forward the chemical to your address. Because many amature chemists do not have busness addresses, or purchase accouts with the name brand distributors, these type of business are essential.