Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Ethylene carbonate as a source of ethylene oxide

blueberry58 - 14-2-2015 at 19:03

Looking for ethylene trithiocarbonate preparation I found a nice title on Google "One-pot synthesis of ethylene trithiocarbonate from ethylene carbonate". This prep uses ethylene carbonate as source of ethylene oxide. The article requires some payment in ScienceDirect.

Someone knows the details of this reaction? Its possible use EC as source of EO in others reactions?

Thank you.
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Boffis - 15-2-2015 at 12:43

Can you give us the reference and/or the DOI? Then we can have a look at it.

Chemosynthesis - 15-2-2015 at 22:43

Just in case anyone is curious, the original poster is very likely attempting to use this in an admittedly discredited scam medical treatment where similar trials were stopped due to patient mortality rates.
He got very aggressive with me in another thread for simply pointing out clinical trials and questioning his methodology when he claimed to be performing medical research, yet wanted us to devise protocols. PM me or look through his post history if this is of interest to you.

Boffis - 16-2-2015 at 06:28

@Chemosynthesis; point taken!
Some interesting reads! Good to see the Art of Quackery is still alive and kicking ..... or maybe not!

blueberry58 - 16-2-2015 at 09:27

Is not legal to share publicly a DOI, but everybody can find the way of getting it after some googling.
ETTC is synthesized from reaction of EC and CS2 in good yield and selectivities.
This subject is interesting because provides an inexpensive and not dangerous source of a toxic gas as EO. Ethylene carbonate with lithium chloride as catalist in a solvent as dimethylformamide or N-methyl-2-pyrrolidinone produces high EC conversion. By supplying EO slowly and maintaining molar ratio of CS2/EO high enough prevent excessive heat and supress polymerization of EO.

Another cheap solvent perhaps is DMSO.

Temperature is 150 C for 4 hours. The best EC/CS2/LiCl mole ratio is 20/40/1.

Nicodem - 16-2-2015 at 14:15

Quote: Originally posted by blueberry58  
Is not legal to share publicly a DOI, but everybody can find the way of getting it after some googling.

Saying that citing references is not legal is one of the most idiotic things you could have said on a science forum. If you so intensively hate the scientific method, then why are you here?

blueberry58 - 16-2-2015 at 15:17

Share a DOI is illegal. I have great respect for scientific method. Why you say I hate it?

sparkgap - 18-2-2015 at 19:25

Clearly, you misunderstand. (Publicly) Sharing PDF files of articles is probably not a good idea. Sharing a link to a publisher's website where the article might be read (which a DOI effectively is) is something a publisher would be fine with. I have a copy of the article, but I don't have time to look through it at the moment; a less busy soul might be able to tell you something.

sparky (~_~)

blueberry58 - 19-2-2015 at 14:12

Thank you sparkgap. Obviously not is selfishness. I sent the article to Boffis when he asked for it.

blueberry58 - 20-2-2015 at 12:37

The following article describe some raw facts about a supposed trial of a medical chemistry based methodology that most not know and some people criticize speaking unaware of his limits. Its a memorable page of history to not forget. Judge for yourself.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/58tyblpadcj25kt/LYALL_AND_THE_...

Chemosynthesis - 20-2-2015 at 14:18

For those of us who actually understand peer review, or the importance of having data behind wild claims, let me do blueberry58 a favor and link to this article that the attached fictional book excerpt without references impugns, so that anyone who finds this all fascinating can see the actual scientific and primary literature: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=656789

Conveniently, there is no mention of the fact there was more than one attempt at this. Even more conveniently, Revici himself failed to provide data or agree to testing protocols for reviewers, who of course must all have been either evil or incompetent, unlike Revici, who only had his medical license revoked for professional misconduct and never received a board specialty:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/canjclin.39.2.119...

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/com...

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cancer.htm...

Sadly, a fairly recent clinical trial attempting to use selenium, a potentially dangerous treatment devoid of any demonstrated clinical efficacy, had to be halted on ethical grounds because too many patients were dying for the trial to be considered ethical and humane. It also may have given patients treated diabetes. I guess unlike Revici, these legitimately trained researchers who actually provide colleagues and the public with data and retrospective studies even on negative results to improve peoples' lives in the future don't know how to do their jobs either: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20882260/
Apparently these kind of results don't bother some purported medical professionals. These same people love to just insist they cure cancer, be it in books or forum posts, and when asked for evidence to support extraordinary claims....

Oddly enough, it seems some people still try diagnosing illnesses while unaware of how differential diagnoses and science work: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=51...
But I suppose that is to be expected when citing sources is so bothersome, one just calls it illegal to do so, and refuses to use any recognizable chemical nomenclature.

blueberry58 - 20-2-2015 at 15:21

This link is for all the forum. Open-minded and humble. (Not so astute as Chemosynthesis.)

The author is William Kelly Eidem on the trial that was submitted Dr. Revici by AMA. The main book of this author is called Research in Physiopathology as a guided Chemotherapy

http://www.mediafire.com/view/zzfxwx5jaza6xw0/Research_In_Ph...

Dr. Revici work have been replied by other researchers as Dr. Maisin Director, Institute of Cancer of Louvain University in Belgium replied his studies.

Dwight Mckee had worked using this method.
http://www.dwightmckee.com/dr-dwight-mckees-bio/

Chemosynthesis - 20-2-2015 at 15:34

Quote: Originally posted by blueberry58  
This link is for all the forum. Open-minded and humble. (Not so astute as Chemosynthesis.)

The author is William Kelly Eidem on the trial that was submitted Dr. Revici by AMA. The main book of this author is called Research in Physiopathology as a guided Chemotherapy

Clearly someone is not as astute... the author of that fictional book, according to the publication information, is the very Revici who defrauded the public of 2 million dollars in funding, not adjusted for inflation, and had his license to practice medicine revoked for malpractice and fraud. Did he defraud William Kelly Eidem by not crediting him as the main author of his own work, or did he just conveniently leave that part out while filing all those patents he must have wanted to cash out on from killing sick people with bad medicine?
Quote:
Dr. Revici work have been replied by other researchers as Dr. Maisin Director, Institute of Cancer of Louvain University in Belgium replied his studies.

Dwight Mckee had worked using this method.
http://www.dwightmckee.com/dr-dwight-mckees-bio/


Care to substantiate those claims with something more than a random biography page, or are you going to avoid doing so, just like when you claimed to have personally cured cancer?

Magpie - 20-2-2015 at 15:41

Quote: Originally posted by blueberry58  

This subject is interesting because provides an inexpensive and not dangerous source of a toxic gas as EO.


I would really like to be able to do that.

I understand that hospitals use EO as a (preferred?) method of sterilization of equipment. But I'm sure that intercepting EO from that supply chain would be very difficult.

Etaoin Shrdlu - 20-2-2015 at 15:42

I don't recall blueberry58 claiming to have cured cancer, nor can I find any support for this claim in his posts.

It doesn't seem English isn't his first language, when asked for a DOI he probably thought it meant he should post the entire article, which is (sadly) illegal. He's not trying to hide that he's following Revici's work given how many times he's openly mentioned it.

All this said, I don't give any credence to the "selenium cures cancer" idea and I'll be quite disappointed if people are scammed or otherwise harmed by experimental treatments tied to these requests.

Chemosynthesis - 20-2-2015 at 16:19

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
I don't recall blueberry58 claiming to have cured cancer, nor can I find any support for this claim in his posts.

You're right. Thank you for correcting me there. I meant to say that bluebrry58 claimed to have personally witnessed said cures of cancer: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=45...

He didn't quite say he cured them himself, and I don't intend to be misleading. To the best of my knowledge, it was factually inaccurate for me to state it that way. He has made several ridiculous and patently false claims, though. One is portraying his espoused treatments as "Its the only real medicine chemistry based. "
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=52...
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  

I understand that hospitals use EO as a (preferred?) method of sterilization of equipment. But I'm sure that intercepting EO from that supply chain would be very difficult.

It is preferred for heat sensitive items, such as plastic and sterile packaging. Newest guidelines for 2014.
https://www.document-center.com/standards/show/ISO-11135
The 2007 version is all over the net. Additionally, here is a paper on its use and some modeling:
http://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553%2807%2900052-1...

Etaoin Shrdlu - 20-2-2015 at 17:04

Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis  
He has made several ridiculous and patently false claims, though. One is portraying his espoused treatments as "Its the only real medicine chemistry based. "
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=52...

I had figured that was a translation error given the garbled sentence, and meant something more along the lines of "this research is about actual medicine based on chemistry." I won't deny there's a lot of belief in quackery/discredited hypotheses in blueberry's posts, that's why I haven't been replying to the threads. Scientific inquiry is one thing, this stuff shouldn't be used on patients and I hope it is not. It worries me to see this coming from an MD.

[Edited on 2-21-2015 by Etaoin Shrdlu]

blueberry58 - 20-2-2015 at 17:32

I had not had cured cases of cancer but I have witnessed several cases of cancer remission after taking Dr. Revici medicines. Specially colon and breast tumors.

Revici method is a coherent and simple way to integrate basic chemistry principles in diagnosis and therapy. It is based inter alia on the work of Otto Warburg who found most diseases are derivated of troubles in celular respiration.

The body may enter in two possible metabolic offbalances as consequence of stressors. Free fatty acids or lipoacids and sterols or lipobases are the rulers of cellular respiration. Basic exchange across membranes are ruled for lipidic activity. Oxidative fosforilation and other stages of Krebs cycle occurs on nearby of membranes.
Free fatty acids overactivity (leukotriens are part of them) increase cells membrane permeability and create an excess of aerobic activity, local alkalosis, low potassium, and catabolic tendency called offbalance D. (Disaerobic).
Sterols overactivity (steroids included) low cells membrane permeability and provoke anaerobic activity, local acidosis, high potassium, and anabolic tendency called offbalance A. (Anaerobic).
Both membrane components are the regent molecules, in biology. Disease occurs as consequence of these offbalances.
Lipoacids, or analogues raise membrane permeability and cellular oxidation. Lipobases, some derivatives or analogues low membrane permeability, decrease cellular oxidation.
These offbalances are detected by very simple tests in blood and urine. Medical intervention is focused in correcting these offbalances.
A key point to Revici is considering the value of vital constants fluctuation, not static values. For example, seric potassium may be inside normal range of 3-5 mEq/l but its is oscillation above and below of 4.5 what is important. If all time its value remains below 4.5 this person has an offbalance tough be inside the range. Absence of fluctuation is pathologic. This is a completely new of vision of physiopathology. 80% of people with symptoms of disease have not change in classic lab tests, in ambulatory people. With this method now many of these patients show an offbalance that must be corrected.
In inflammation, trauma, burns or shock the damage is determined by free fatty acids overactivity. The body controls them using sterols. This is a key aspect of physiopathology.

Lipids with negative charge of positive charge are the rulers. Controlling these offbalances Dr. Revici discovered and characterized leukotriens since 1950 showing its origin, its biologic function and the way of medically intervene when a condition arises.

Chemosynthesis - 20-2-2015 at 17:56

Quote: Originally posted by blueberry58  
I had not had cured cases of cancer but I have witnessed several cases of cancer remission after taking Dr. Revici medicines. Specially colon and breast tumors.

I do apologize for mis-stating your words, even though the rest of what you're saying is misconstruing a lot of biochemistry.

blueberry58 - 20-2-2015 at 18:01

Dr. Revici work since 1930`s is based on simple chemistry principles. The same idea during 73 years.

May be summarized as: Negatively charged lipids regulate the defense response to stressors in the body and are controlled by positively charged lipids.

Therapeutic agents are simple chemicals analogs and derivated of free fatty acids and sterols. Today modern pharmaceutic industry applies Dr. Revici discoveries. Doing a molecule less or more polar improves or decreases its bioavailability.

His book contains perhaps a hundred of metastatic cancer cases treated by these principles. Most of which classical medicine offers low or no possibilities. (Leukemias and lymphomas are the exception.)

Read the article please.

Chemosynthesis - 20-2-2015 at 19:12

Biochemistry, carcinogenesis, and cell signaling are extremely complex, and much has advanced in 73 years. Fields like molecular biology were essentially non-existent in the 1930s. The simple chemistry of the 1930s has been expanded upon so much since then. Even books such as Linus Pauling's General Chemistry show their age.

I have already briefly mentioned how targeted drug delivery is not applying Revici's discoveries at all. Polarity is a small part of bioavailability, and polarizability, enzymatic metabolism, various types of transport, etc. all play a role.

As for the article, it's a book excerpt. The article I see mentioned in the book is the review that Revici invited to scrutinize his work, and they found it lacking statistical relevance. I would prefer to spend what time I have on articles scrutinizing peer reviewed ones. I have drawers full.

blueberry58 - 21-2-2015 at 13:48

I see you are a sensitive person Etaoin Shrdlu. (In good sense)
I do not treat cancer patients. But I have learnt that cancer chemotherapy only works well in lymphomas, leukemias, some tumors of the testicles and breasts. The others are very experimental but not because of this are free.

So I'm about to start a study on metabolic imbalances A and D, and their response to certain lipids here in Cali Colombia.

Chemosynthesis - 21-2-2015 at 15:39

Chemotherapy is not as typical in testicle or cervical cancers; usually a surgical intervention is used from all I have seen. Additionally, pharmacological treatment of thyroid cancer is extremely well tolerated, for example. Look at radioactive iodine therapy.

I wish you put more effort into science based medical study rather than whatever you are learning.

blueberry58 - 21-2-2015 at 18:19

Chemotherapy is not used primarily in testicular local tumors but is used to prevent recidivism and this type of cancer is one of most responsive to this treatment.

Dr Revici method is science based study and true physiopathology for who has the humility to pay attention.

Chemosynthesis - 22-2-2015 at 07:03

Comparing adjuvant chemotherapy to first line chemotherapy without specifying treatment or subtypes of cancer by genotype or histotype is not intellectually valid. Saying "chemotherapy" while hiding the fact there is concomitant surgery is outright deceptive.
For chemotherapy, different medications have different effects. Different combinations and formulations can have altered effects as well. The entire trend of healthcare is personalized medicine based on specific diagnoses.

Generalizing and using non-scientific ideas based on 80-year-old speculation is a step backward. Colorectal cancers of specific genotypes (microsatellite stability) are fairly amenable to adjuvant chemotherapy as another example.

Edit- someone who doesn't understand that the 1930s weren't just 70 years ago shouldn't be holding a clinical study or anything masquerading as science whatsoever. (2015-1930=85 years ago, hence not only not a new concept, as you claim, but completely inaccurate math).

What you are doing is using discredited diagnostic techniques to bias your studies. Coffee and eggs to diagnose illness? Urine gravity, which varies upon hydration? Use a medically recognized confirmatory test. This is how real clinical sciences establish diagnostic criteria. It takes a lot of actually educated people to design trial methodologies. This and more complicated math than subtraction, which might be a pitfall.

When you bias a study by "treating" otherwise healthy people with crap, then watching as they fail to contract the illness they didn't have, isn't valid. When you do things like that and claim that cancer has been cured, you are misleading actually sick people. This is made worse by evidence that the treatments you espouse diminish quality of life!

For someone who talks a big game about humility and openness, if only you were humble about how factually inaccurate and mis-educated you are, even about simple things like math and authorship... if you were open to learning the scientific method you claim to respect, you could try to use it in a helpful way.

[Edited on 22-2-2015 by Chemosynthesis]