Sciencemadness Discussion Board

A collision between Mars and Jupiter

Marcus MacGregor - 28-1-2015 at 10:17

Hello,
A few years back I had the idea that the topography of Mars could have been largely created by a close encounter with Jupiter. I posted it on several forums and got some great responses. (And some angry trolls, but hey it is the internet so what can you do)

The introduction video to this idea is here:
http://youtu.be/mGOsw8CLxmE

This is a flyby that tears out the Hellas basin. I found that a great many people thought that it went by the Roche limit. I'd just like to point out ahead of time that Mars has a fairly high density so the Roche limit does not come into play.

I made a video showing the location of some things around Jupiter because of this common confusion.
http://youtu.be/PJumdRcZcUA

I just made a video showing what I consider to be the most easily grasped evidence of this:
http://youtu.be/zHGX_ZQwGdA

I have a video planned for the trajectory of the event. I found that many people are convinced that falling into Jupiter or being flung out of the solar system are the only options. I found many planetary scientists I contacted recommended the L4 or L5 lagrangian point as the start of the trajectory. I have decided to adopt this rather than my initial idea of a highly elliptical Mars triggered by a orbital resonance. L4 would accelerate while L5 would decelerate leading to the correct Hamiltonian.

I also have a video planned for the timing of the event. One commenter noted that we would of totally noticed this happening. I guess he was thinking that it was breaking news. We have been watching Mars for quite some time and although it saddens me that I have to make it explicit- This event occurred before the invention of astronomy.

So I'm posting on this forum to see if there is other flaws of this idea that I have not addressed. I want to run it by as many people as possible before I start the laborious task of submission to journals.

So, if you think you have a debunking concept or just a facet of the idea that needs more depth please tell me. It may be something I have worked out already but have not mentioned, but hopefully it might be something that I have missed. I have had this idea for awhile so it appears obvious to me, I understand if it does not appear so to you; I'd like to know why you have a dubious perspective.

If you don't accept the idea but don't have a reason why, perhaps you can share it with someone who can come up with a reason.

If you like the idea and have a piece of supporting evidence I have not mentioned, that would be great too.

If you simply like the idea, I always appreciate a like, share or nice comment. The internet can be a very negative place.

Thank you.

Etaoin Shrdlu - 28-1-2015 at 11:02

Quote: Originally posted by Marcus MacGregor  
This is a flyby that tears out the Hellas basin. I found that a great many people thought that it went by the Roche limit. I'd just like to point out ahead of time that Mars has a fairly high density so the Roche limit does not come into play.

The Roche limit comes into play for all pairs of celestial bodies. (Yes, it can be zero, I suppose.)

I will look over what you have later. Out of curiosity, what is the origin of Mars in your conjecture? How does it avoid being torn apart altogether if gravity ripped out enough to form the Hellas basin?

Zombie - 28-1-2015 at 11:09

Interesting!

The last sentence of the last vid summed up my thoughts. Trajectory?
I would have to believe that an incident such as you describe would have to have had some effect on trajectory. How would this be known?
Maybe I missed something but when do you suggest this should have happened?

Zombie - 28-1-2015 at 11:13

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
Quote: Originally posted by Marcus MacGregor  
This is a flyby that tears out the Hellas basin. I found that a great many people thought that it went by the Roche limit. I'd just like to point out ahead of time that Mars has a fairly high density so the Roche limit does not come into play.

The Roche limit comes into play for all pairs of celestial bodies. (Yes, it can be zero, I suppose.)

I will look over what you have later. Out of curiosity, what is the origin of Mars in your conjecture? How does it avoid being torn apart altogether if gravity ripped out enough to form the Hellas basin?



I had the same thought but quickly thought of passing a vacuum wand over a pile of debris.
Pass it far enough away, and you just pull out a small portion. Generally speaking, from the closest point or the weakest area.

Could be something to this... Just sayin.

IrC - 28-1-2015 at 14:43

While I am by no means knowledgeable in astrophysics, a gas giant with the gravity of Jupiter does not seem correct. Would not a large moon hitting Mars do the same, resulting in what is today the asteroid belt? Or am I way out on a limb here.

diddi - 28-1-2015 at 16:09

or possibly a pair of bodies in the Martian orbit which collide or engage in a slingshot resulting in the catastrophic destruction of 1 body? not that I am an astrophysicist either

Zombie - 28-1-2015 at 17:37

I'm not going to attempt to second guess anything here. What Marcus is suggesting, and attempting to prove is a tear-out vs a collision. I think he has pretty well shown his hypotheses is more likely that either collision scenario.
It must be daunting to prove something that happened a billion years ago tho.

MrHomeScientist - 29-1-2015 at 12:16

As several other replies pointed out, we aren't astrophysicists. This is a hobby chemistry forum. While interesting, your questions and ideas would be better directed towards sites devoted to your topic. If you have to post your pet theory on completely unrelated sites for 'validation' by non-experts, it's not a good sign!

AJKOER - 30-1-2015 at 09:45

As a possible explanation for the most likely answer, would not a similar scenario that actually occurred to the early earth be the best answer?

Namely, an asteroid collision followed by a significant mass ejection (which, in the case of early earth resulted in the formation of the moon).

Such an event occurring to Mars with a smaller asteroid latter in its planetary development may have just produced the current surface scar.

Looking at possible changes in planetary orbits is literally moving the heavens (reaching).

[Edited on 30-1-2015 by AJKOER]