Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Using Chemistry to Refine Pure Silver

Using Chemistry to Refine Pure Silver

kadriver - 5-1-2015 at 07:14

Here is a new video for your review;

Silver Refining Complete Process for the Amateur Part 1 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bici_7jgs1w

Any critical comments would be welcomed!

kadriver

Bert - 5-1-2015 at 09:25

Mostly safety related comments-

You are very casual about NOx. Merely noting that it's deadly dangerous... Are you working in a fume hood? Is there a fume extraction system above your hot plate setup we don't get to see? Please make clear exactly how you handle this issue?

Video is done working with kitchen implements, and at least some of your processing is done in a kitchen- It's easy, but a bad idea. Dedicated work area for your chemistry, dedicated equipment. No accidental poisoning, or murder by wife/girlfriend for abusing THEIR stuff... I learned this one the hard way!

Working with random scrap jewelry and decorative Silver as you are, there are probably some soldered pieces in the mix. Specialty jeweler's silver solder/braze may contain toxic metals such as Antimony and Cadmium- I would not be heating your assorted items to red heat in the air I'm breathing, so once again: WHAT IS YOUR AIR HANDLING SYSTEM.

A little bit of Cd goes a long way, more than one old jeweler has died at the workbench of what is assumed by the coroner to have been a heart attack or stroke- When they had actually just inhaled the last little whisp of Cd fumes.

You are working on a "pilot plant" scale. What is your refinery waste disposal system?

gdflp - 5-1-2015 at 10:32

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

Video is done working with kitchen implements, and at least some of your processing is done in a kitchen- It's easy, but a bad idea. Dedicated work area for your chemistry, dedicated equipment. No accidental poisoning, or murder by wife/girlfriend for abusing THEIR stuff... I learned this one the hard way!

You killed your girlfriend???, I knew there was something strange about you

@kadriver
Some other tips, generally clamping a vacuum filtration flask is a good idea during the filtration, to prevent the top heavy flask from tipping. Another idea would be to use quantitative filter paper, this would allow for any silver stuck to the filter paper to be recovered by incinerating it. Overall great video! If you don't mind me asking, how much do you usually pay for the scrap silver?

[Edited on 1-5-2015 by gdflp]

Bert - 5-1-2015 at 10:39

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp

You killed your girlfriend???, I knew there was something strange about you

No! Girlfriend/wife killed ME! I'm a ghost writer now...

"Why is there black pepper floating in our margaritas?"

(You can actually make black powder in a blender! But shouldn't use the one from HER kitchen...)

kadriver - 5-1-2015 at 13:05

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

Mostly safety related comments-

You are very casual about NOx. Merely noting that it's deadly dangerous... Are you working in a fume hood? Is there a fume extraction system above your hot plate setup we don't get to see? Please make clear exactly how you handle this issue?

Yes, I should have put into the video that I was working in fume hood. I concluded that it was obvious but a person who wasn't familiar might not recognize that.

Quote: Originally posted by Bett

I am working in a vacant rental home that is set aside for this work only. I agree that using an area for chemistry and for serving food is a bad idea. This is another good point that should be included in the video

These are the exact kind of inputs that I am looking for. I will make sure and include this information in future shots.

Thank you!
kadriver

kadriver - 8-1-2015 at 21:08

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp

Hello, I just noticed your question. My first wife is the primary buyer. She is very good at finding and purchasing both silver and gold for me to refine. Without her I would be punching a time clock somewhere.

Its getting harder to find sterling/925 silver at low prices - I think she paid $140 for the sterling and jewelry items shown in this video. Not all that great of a price, but in the profit zone.

She is good at finding over-looked jewelry items for pennies at yard sales and thrift stores. Without her, I'd be lost! By the way, I am still married to my fisrt wife and we celebrate 35 years this June, 2015.

Thank you for the clamping tip, I've never had a problem but I have noticed instability with the flask empty and top-heavy.

Those filters are thrown into a large ziploc freezer bag and saved for retirement. I have several tucked away with cement silver falling off of them and piling up on the bottom of the bag.

I am working on the Part 2 video and hope to have it completed before the end of Jan 2015

Thank you for your comments!

kadriver

kadriver - 8-1-2015 at 21:50

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

You are working on a "pilot plant" scale. What is your refinery waste disposal system?

Bert,

in the video I siphon off the copper nitrate into a "Stock Pot" which is a plastic 10 liter bucket that can be incinerated easily. This bucket has pieces of copper in it from previous silver "cementing" operations.

The copper nitrate being siphoned off into the stock pot in the video probably still contains a tiny bit of silver nitrate as well as some palladium and possibly platinum - in trace amounts.

These remaining precious metals are allowed to cement out on the copper and they fall to the bottom of the "stock pot" in the form of a black powder that can be easily refined later on.

All my gold refining wastes go into this same stock pot. So if there are ANY precious metals that are still in solution, including gold, silver or platinum group metals, then they will be "caught" in the stock pot and not thrown into the waste treatment and lost.

After the metals have cemented out completely in the stock pot, the resulting copper nitrate solution is then transferred via siphon to a larger 5 gallon bucket (you can see this larger bucket back behind the smaller stock pot bucket in the video).

This larger bucket is charged with scrap iron. In accordance with the "reactivity series of metals", the copper (and any other metals above iron on the periodic table still in solution) will cement out on the iron. These cemented solids are allowed to settle and they too will be refined later on.

Finally, the acidic iron solution is siphoned off to a third waste treatment bucket. NaOH is added to a pH of 9. Higher pH levels will cause some metal hydroxides to go back into solution.

After the metal hydroxides created by adding NaOH to the waste bucket have settled, the clear liquid sodium salts are siphoned off into an evaporation container and the metal hydroxides filtered out and added to the waste barrel (55 gal blue chemically approved container). The metal hydroxides are allowed to dry to a "moist cake" before being added to the waste container.

It costs over $700 to have this thing removed and replaced with an empty one. I have yet to fill a 55 gallon container - that is how small of an operation I have. It is at the micro level.

Thank you for your suggestions!

kadriver

Bert - 8-1-2015 at 23:57

Your possible exposure to all the various materials found in jewelry, solder and braze materials is something to think carefully about, and manage pro-actively.

Jewelry metals safety

Good air handling as mentioned earlier- Be very careful to avoid all routes of exposure. No eating, drinking or smoking in the refinery, work clean, I would shower and change clothes before going home.

A heavy metals blood screening might not be a bad idea, it seems this is your primary occupation? Years ago, I had one done. And came out just a bit high on Lead, but near the level of Arsenic that would call for medical intervention. Not from chemistry. I lived in a basement apartment of an old building where the interior walls of basement and stair wells had been painted green with a Copper aceto arsenite pigmented paint- And the paint had begun to chalk badly. I care took for that building, vacuumed the halls and breathed the dust. Cooked my meals and ate in the basement too.

Elements that the body doesn't excrete efficiently add up, even from seemingly tiny exposures. Be safe out there-

Hennig Brand - 9-1-2015 at 14:23

Really enjoyed your video, looking forward to part 2.

kadriver - 11-1-2015 at 12:37

Here is part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ZxYsAI9Mk

Critical comments on improvement welcomed!

Thank you, kadriver

Harvesting the pure silver crystal

kadriver - 26-1-2015 at 16:39

The cell finally got full and here is the video that shows how I harvested the pure silver crystal:

http://youtu.be/5mqKafsLUs8

Thanks for looking

kadriver

AndrewCampbell - 3-11-2015 at 22:44

I have never tried experimenting with my antique silver pieces before. The only science I have done so far with them is to use a baking soda mixture to get rid of old tarnish stains. It would be beneficial though to know the detailed procedures so I could get rid of copper to extract pure silver to produce other beautiful jewelry.

IrC - 17-11-2015 at 19:25

Quote: Originally posted by kadriver

The cell finally got full and here is the video that shows how I harvested the pure silver crystal:

http://youtu.be/5mqKafsLUs8

Thanks for looking

kadriver

"TO COVER EXPENSES THERE IS A SMALL FEE TO VIEW THIS VIDEO." ($1.99)

The plot thickens. One cannot pay even if the vid was worth a couple bucks.

Scott C 2 months ago How do u even pay to see it? Lol

sreetips 2 months ago Scott C hello, I am not sure. I made this paid as an experiment. I tried to revert it back to free but YouTube won't let me do it. I wish I had never done it. The pure silver crystal weighed about 1.6 kilos in this batch. After removing the electrolyte I rinsed the silver with hot distilled water to wash all the electrolyte off the crystal then dumped it into a large Corning ware casserole dish and dried the pure silver over low heat. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Moral: never trust YouTube.

I do have a question. Can't you just upload the vid again? Having never uploaded one myself I am not sure how it works but I was curious and want to see this video. The work you are doing is one of the reasons I like SCM. If you cannot at least post a pic here. I simply must see a 'pure silver crystal that weighed about 1.6 kilos'.