Can't open the lid

Hmm.... - when my pots of polymer dispersion get their lids stuck on I BASH them REALLY!!! hard on the desk and that usually loosens them up a bit! Try eating some poisonous beans after to make sure!!

But seriously, if it has dried in the threads of the jar as you suspect, could you try soaking the jar for a couple of hours in a solvent for the material? Hopefully the solvent will work its way in and free up the thread for turning. (???) I've never made nitroglycerin and would probably be a bit scared too, so I'm really not an authority on this.

[Edited on 17-5-2006 by DrP]

...

Yep, hot water did the trick. It took a few tries, since the small lid would cool by the time I could get a good grasp.

All this chemistry is making me forget my physics I guess

[Edited on 17-5-2006 by Quince]

NG is much safer to handle when frozen and given Quince has a long history of flouting risk it was unlikley he'd simply destroy it (The best option). Defrosting NG only has a bad reputation in the early literiture due to how it was being done, generally on site just before use and people were lighting fires to provide the heat. Companies like Nobel were freezing NG for transport and defrosting later for decades without any problems. This was massivly safer than transporting the liquid. Properly frozen, the glass jar could have been smashed with low risk, depending quite a lot on the quality of the NG though, so opening the lid should not have been a real problem in this state.

I don't think home made NG is suitable for any long term storage at all, though in many cases use of glass for short periods is unavoidable. Maybe a teflon coated plastic container might be better for handeling the liquid but storing it frozen is also a much better move.

I have no experience with Methyl Nitrate, nor have I read much about it so I can't really comment but I may start calling you 'Chris the great area'.

With regards to the production of NC, the most succes I've had in its production, involves the addition of cotton wool in very small increments. I.e something like 5 or 6 additions per 1gm pad. Nitration is effected in seconds IIRC, so it's just a matter of adding small amounts albeit many more of them. I used the method specified in Urbanski, though the method of cellulose hexanitrate as found on the PowerLabs site works equally well.

Have never had particullarly good results using phosphoric acid + nitric, nor have I had good results with H2SO4 + any nitrate salt. For best results, you really need to use concentrated nitric acid. This has been produced succesfully dozens of times using a brand of fertilizer freely available from supermarkets combined with distilled H2SO4 from discarded car batteries. The distillation equipment could not even be described as primative .

I.e saucepan filled with vegetable oil, glass bottle (I use V or RedBull) with platic lid, along with a section of clear PVC tubing (8mm OD). This tube runs through a hole in the lid of the reaction vessel into a hole in a second plastic lid 1/2 way screwed onto a second glass bottle submerged into a large cup filled with ice/water. The receiving flask's cooling water needs to be changed every 10 mins or so. Ensure also that the tube runs to nearly the bottom of the receiving flask.

While being light-years from optimal, this setup has successfully distilled nitric with a s.g of 1.5 - 1.6 each and every time, albeit with the replacement of the plastic lids every 5 times or so and replacement of the tubing every time. It goes opaque and begins to crackle

While Al will improve the overall energy output of such a mixture, one would need to use rather a low percentage of NC in order to keep a +ive or 0 O.B, remember that something like 6-7% NC is needed for an OB'd mixture. IIRC its use (Al) will also slow the max VDet, although the practical VDet may be increased due to the adherence of bubbles to the Al powder.

Failing the use of home-made NC, one may freely use double base shot-gun (or pistol or rifle) powder as the NC source. If as is probably the case, this is not a viable option, Table tennis balls are entirely serviceable.
Simply dissolve them with minimum acetone first to form a thick gluggy mass. Next add calculated mass of NG, kneed to incorporate bubbles and at the same time provide heat to drive off acetone and Voila! Blasting gelatin!

Can't say however if the Al would be unreactive. You could try a web search for compositions containing these three if you've not done so already...

[EDIT] The fertilizer sold is less than 50% NH4NO3, which obviously entails purification first. This however is another matter..

[Edited on 18-5-2006 by enhzflep]

Nitric of density 1.5 - 1.6? You mean like 125% pure?
Depending on temp, 1.50 - 1.52 is 100%. You *can* get higher densities for a given concentration if NO2 is dissolved, e.g. 1.5 g/ccm but only <90% pure, with water and NO2 raising it above 1.45.

Oh and NC is *not* fully nitrated in seconds. Leaving it 15-30 minutes, or even some hours gives better results (especially with sulfuric/nitrate). It also helps to cut it as fine as possible before. I rather spend 10 minutes with scissors than stirr a hard lump an hour. The cut-up stuff is easy to stir, making a few stirs over an hour sufficient (after initially stiring well for 5 min).

As far as NG and plastic is concerned, all *hard* plastic I tried was OK, just not the rubber-like lining in metal lids. Small med bottles with plastic lids work fine for me, so do syringes which stand up infinitely as well.

Finally I like to note that home made NG *can* be stored for ages. My two youngest batches are from 2004/5 respectively (I don't use much), and are still fine, and I even have small samples left from the 1980ies and 90ies! Three days of washing, with a shake every time you walk by does the trick. Very weak soda solution (<<1%) is sufficient here, you don't want it to hydrolize. The bulk of the acid must be removed beforehand of course, and the soda and finally the water removed well after.

You can even make NC quite well with a nitrating mix composed of 40 grams AN or 50 grams of KNO3 with 100 ml H2SO4 (96%+). I have used nitrating times up to 5 days (!) at room temperature with very good results. You have to use very pure, and well rinsed cotton for this else you will end up with a yellow goo...

And yeah, NG that is neautralized and stabilized is very storage stable, in fact the 6 grams that was used for my last shaped charge was from 10 ml of NG stored for over a year in a safe place. Just gave it another wash before using it, just to be sure. To know what unstable NG looks like I've stored 1 ml quantaties also that were only bicarb neutralized for a day, without stabilizer and these samples went from very faintly yellow, to almost orange in about a month. If NG is still very faintly yellow and clear, I think it is safe to say that there is very little decomposition and it won't be terribly more sensitive...

I'm glad to hear NG is compatible with hard plastics, I've noticed indeed that there is no problem of using NG with PVC, unfortunately though PVC adhesive does get dissolved... Polyethylene or polypropylene, (Greiner tubes and eppendorf tubes ) are no problem. Hard polystyrene however looks very much like these plastics, and becomes weak very fast...

[Edited on 18-5-2006 by nitro-genes]

Nearly doubles it by weight by my calculations
Who cares if it 0% OB, you're still going to be getting a butload of energy. IIRC I calculated that with 32% Al powder by weight for the nitro/NC of 93/7.

Thank you so much for that tip nitro-genes for NC! I've tried it with NC before, it gelled stuff, but it was not fully nitrated and burned very slowly. I will try your method from now on. Off topic I know, but thank you!


Marvin- methyl nitrate has a drop test of 40cm (vs. 20cm for EGDN) but is apparently friction sensitive. My two month old first batch, after it turned yellow, could not be set off with repeated hammer blows on the anvil, even when absorbed into paper. Still, I treat it with respect, a 240% TNT brisance makes one tread carefully.

Well, whatever you do, make sure it doesn't spill in your bedroom if you attempt to open it... I'm sure Boomer could enlighten you with the downside of this if he so chooses to.

Yup, thats right. Itwas RFNA - not WFNA. Should have mentioned that. sorry.
If I'm in no particular hurry it's pale yellow, but generally without a vacuum and with correspondingly higher temps and short reaction time - its rather red.

I never bother with urea unless I'm doing NG, and can't be bothered looking up the literature now, (the NO2 may well have an effect on the nitrating abilities of the mixture)but the cotton shrinks immediately upon contact with said acid mixture.

Yeah, I guess zero OB is not too important, I just preffer low light emmisions and a good sharp crack rather than a BOOM - personal preference..

For what its worth Quince, if your cotton doesn't stay stuck together in clump at the bottom of the reaction vessel, you may just pour the mixture through a plastic strainer as found in a supermarket, failing that - just tip the acid out slowly and recycle as desired..

I use cotton pads as opposed to balls since the packet was unmarked and I thought I was getting a 'brick' - (like we use for polishing the inside of gold rings with.

However, this form of cotton wool in pads has proven to be very satisfactory. Each pad may be pulled apart into about 8 layers of reasonably uniform thickness. I have been more successfull with the cotton
in this form than in cut-up form too, btw. Since each layer is about 2mm thick and like a cyclone fence in compactness - i.e free access for the acid.

The longest I generally nitrate for is 1/2 hour (room-temp to slightly warm acid mix) - 15mins after last addition, after which time a sample is flame tested from each of the strata. (The cotton doesn't stick together too much at all..) I don't have scales acurate to 1/100s or 1/1000s of a gm, but the amount of ash left behind is on a par with smokeless powder. - Though admittedly there is a rather nitric smelling emmision of gas upon burning, due to obviously insufficient neutralizing. Boiled in bicarb for around 10mins.

The only success I've had in making reasonably good NG - read no discoloration after at least 6months, is to use 98% H2SO4 from chem supplier, along with 70% Nitric, dried with same sulphuric, over the course of about 3hours- and without the use of pvc tubing. Think along the lines of small mouthed glass bottle inserted into larger mouthed glass jar/bottle - It just allows more gases to escape, for the sake of usually unnessecary purity. Which, when using store bought Nitric is rather galling due to it's rather high price when only buying 2.5L at a time, considering that 15L may be had for just over twice the price as 2.5!

Hence my most common use of fertilizer + distilled car-battery acid. Heating gas is very cheap, car-batteries are about $1.50 worth of petrol for 6 or 7 at a local car workshop, and the fertilizer is also very cheap - labour is free


There is a saying in computer programming that also applies to much of life. The final 20% of the job takes 80% of the time.

If the results gained in the final 20% are not necessary then why use 80% of the time on them? Hence quick 'n dirty production techniques for material to be consumed within 24 hours. SO LONG AS the first 80% of the job will be safe.