Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Meth craze hits Germany

Meth craze hits Germany

garage chemist - 30-3-2006 at 11:34

Today there was a huge article in STERN, a weekly german magazine.
It talked about how meth destroys peoples and families life, how it is so easy to cook (they mentioned ehedrine and red P as ingredients) and how dangerous the procedure is, that the chemicals were highly explosive etc..., the usual things the media tells us. Also that meth is the number one party drug in germany now too.

What worries me a great deal is that maybe the laws will get as horribly hysterical and restrictive as in america.
The german police has already shown that it is very paranoid about people having chemicals (I'll make a new thread about the recent wave of house searches because of an illegal supplier... the cops even searched my house. I like to pretend it didn't happen, but it did. It was about 5 months ago.).

The first chemical to be banned will most likely be red Phosphorus (Ephedrine and P2P are already banned, but that's ok since they are useless for law- abiding hobby chemists).
Luckily I have my 300g, and that will last me a lifetime even if I do syntheses with PCl3 made from it.
More worrying would be solvents like toluene or diethyl ether.
I use those quite often.
Extremely inconvenient would be the banning of NaOH and HCl.
NaOH is not available OTC here (only massively diluted in drain cleaner), and banning its sale to private persons would be horrible for chemists.

How do you estimate the danger of such things happening?

EDIT: Maybe this belongs in Legal and Societal Issues...

[Edited on 30-3-2006 by garage chemist]

Darkblade48 - 30-3-2006 at 13:15

It's interesting to note how all countries are going into a trend of increasing "chemophobia", most likely due to an (in an over generalization) uneducated public.

I know in Canada they've passed (or are planning to pass) a law to make it illegal to purchase/possess red phosphorus.

Interestingly enough, 10 M HCl and relatively pure NaOH prills are commonly available OTC whereas I've never seen a bottle of diethyl ether for sale.

Niels Bohr - 30-3-2006 at 14:00

Remember remember the 5th of november

Sandmeyer - 30-3-2006 at 14:12

this is actual quote from DEA radio propaganda campain:

The ingredients. Sulfuric acid: an industrial corrosive used in lead storage batteries ... it can eat through cloth, metal or flesh (hiss). Red phosphorus: used to make fireworks and the striker surface on packets of matches (sizzle). Mercury: Banned from toxic paints. Used in electronics, fluorescent lamps and cathode ray tubes (click, hum, crackle). Phenylacetic acid: commonly used in insect repellants (buzz). Aluminum foil: commonly used to bake your Christmas turkey (sizzle).

The announcement concluded with:

Nine out of ten chemists say it's a bad idea to put these materials in your brain. It all goes into making methamphetamine hydrochloride, "crank," "ice" or "speed." Nine out of ten chemists say, "Don't." The tenth chemist (explosion) was unavailable for comment. This is the Drug Enforcement Administration urging you to think twice before you speed.

Did I forget to mention -- the CHILDREN!?

The_Davster - 30-3-2006 at 15:33

Darkblade I was unaware of the ban on red P!

I guess Germany is catching up with the rest of the world in regards to banning usefull things...
Was your house search in regards to this thread?
https://sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=4396
Why did you not mention it earlier?

[Edited on 30-3-2006 by rogue chemist]

garage chemist - 30-3-2006 at 16:07

Yes, my house was searched in regard to this thread.
I did not post it because I was feeling unsafe, as I had posted stuf about explosives here sometime in the past.
And I did not want to have to do anything with the entire affair again after I was informed that the investigation against me had been stopped. You know, if there is any sentence against me on the matter of explosives I will neither be able to study it later nor will I ever be able to get a job in the realm of chemistry.

The police was investigating because of suspected illegal manufacture of explosives, in every case.

DeAdFX - 30-3-2006 at 18:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandmeyer

Did I forget to mention -- the CHILDREN!?

How could you

They are willing to do any sort of drug as long as it is endorsed by celeberaties.

Darkblade48 - 30-3-2006 at 20:53

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue chemist
Darkblade I was unaware of the ban on red P!

Here's a link from the Canada Gazette

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2005/20050611/html/regle4-e...

Note it's dated June 11 2005; just scroll to the part that talks about adding the phosphorus to the schedule.

The_Davster - 30-3-2006 at 22:03

I might be missinterpreting, but that seems to just be more watching of it, GBL and butanediol are also on that list, which are very important industrially. I should get a little before it gets illegal.

S.C. Wack - 31-3-2006 at 02:51

I posted on this before in the best country... thread, both after and long before the current law was enacted; the relevant CG links to the law in force, not the same as above, are found there.

wa gwan - 3-4-2006 at 11:39

The UNs INCB reported Mar 01 2006:
Traffickers take advantage of existing loopholes in the international and national control regimes to obtain precursors for methamphetamine manufacture. Bulk ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are controlled under the 1988 Convention; however, these measures apply only to the raw material, not to pharmaceutical preparations containing those substances. To counter the situation, the Board recommends extending existing controls to the pharmaceutical products containing these substances.
http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/press/2006/press_release_2006-03-0...

the best option

Vitus_Verdegast - 4-4-2006 at 08:14

The only decent move for the EU-powers-that-be would be to withdraw (pseudo)ephedrine from the pharmaceutical market and replace them with synephrine or phenylephrine, instead of going USA-style and have cashier clercks monitor the amount of match-boxes you buy.

Also I thought that (pseudo)ephedrine-containing pharmaceuticals were not OTC in Germany?

from Wikipedia:

Quote:

Because pseudoephedrine can be used in the illegal manufacture of methamphetamine, it is expected that phenylephrine will become more common. In particular, Pfizer, who manufactures the name brand decongestant Sudafed, introduced "Sudafed PE" in 2004. The new formulation uses phenylephrine instead of pseudoephedrine. Because it has been on the market for several years, phenylephrine is not legally patented by any drug company. Thus, many generic forms are available in addition to Pfizer's formula.

Pfizer was a strong opponent of strict pseudoephedrine laws previous to their introduction of "Sudafed PE", but now that their product is widely available (and currently the primary non-pseudoephedrine decongestant formula), they have changed their position to support legal changes severely restricting the sale of pseudoephedrine products.

and

Quote:

In late 2004, Pfizer started publicly disclosing its plans to make available a new OTC product, Sudafed PE, which does not include pseudoephedrine. Sudafed PE contains a different decongestant called phenylephrine, in a formulation sold for years in Europe. The new product became available on January 10, 2005. Sudafed products which combine the decongestant with other ingredients will be completely converted to phenylephrine later in 2005, though original Sudafed will still be offered.

Strange thing is it took 15 years for the cold-pill meth hype to come to Europe. Where I live amphetamine sulphate has always been preferred over methamphetamine, and this is what forensics mostly find in "speed" samples.
I always chalked this up to the idea that most European drug users don't like to stay awake for 5 days and talking with 'shadow people', which is apparantly popular in some states of the US?

Sandmeyer - 4-4-2006 at 09:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Vitus_Verdegast
Strange thing is it took 15 years for the cold-pill meth hype to come to Europe. Where I live amphetamine sulphate has always been preferred over methamphetamine, and this is what forensics mostly find in "speed" samples.
I always chalked this up to the idea that most European drug users don't like to stay awake for 5 days and talking with 'shadow people', which is apparantly popular in some states of the US?

Ah, the McDonaldization of EU has been in progress for a while. When you see adds virtually everywhere you look, SUV's, big-box shops popping up like shrooms along with surprisingly many homless people in the city it is only a matter of time when other american "culture" items like methamphetamine and crack cocaine become popular here too. Just take a look at the wetdreams forum, it's total madness.

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by Sandmeyer]

wa gwan - 4-4-2006 at 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Vitus_VerdegastThe only decent move for the EU-powers-that-be would be to withdraw (pseudo)ephedrine from the pharmaceutical market and replace them with synephrine or phenylephrine, instead of going USA-style and have cashier clercks monitor the amount of match-boxes you buy.

I don't think they can. There is no safety issue like with phenylpropanolamine. Sure they can restrict sales but not force removal from the market, IMHO.
d-pseudoephedrine, the stereoisomer currently available OTC in products such as Sudafed deoxygenates to d-methamphetamine. l-pseudoephedrine, produces only l-methamphetamine when deoxygenated by whatever route.
Pfizer in acquiring Warner Lambert owns the patent for it US6495529
To my knowledge they aren't yet in the process of getting this isomer licensed

nightflight - 23-5-2006 at 11:38

Meth is hell ... ,my Grandma was on it for at least 20years. everytime she had to beg my father for the pills, and when she was on, se made her household, singing and then, all of a sudden, she died with 80years on a heart attack.

I cannot imagine what kind of hell she went through, beacuse of this killer drug, cause I only drink alkohol ^^

She could have had such nice time being bound to a wheelchair with dipers on and psychodrugs, maybe a little beating up, from time-to-time, by the frustrated care-personal, just in case it would have gotten too boring, with that wonderful decubitus full of sh*t all the while.... .

We need to be saved .... and our children!

[Edited on 24-5-2006 by nightflight]