chemprodder - 23-10-2005 at 20:56
I recently saw batman begins(great movie i might add) i noticed that one of the bad guys "scarecorw" used a toxic agent(a mist or dust i
dont know what) that caused hallucinations as well as panic/fear attacks and peoples phobias come alive.
Now i remember reading somewhare that supposidly the CIA was using agents that caused massive panic and fear.
Is this true?
they said it used LSD derivitives....
i know LSD causes hallucinations, but not neccisarly grotesque ones. Exactly what chemicals or chemical combinations would induce such a state?
or is this kind of drug simply a myth?
i would like to know any info at all i am greatly intruiged by this subject.
stygian - 24-10-2005 at 05:31
That CIA chemical would be BZ. Can't remember the exact chemical name but I think it's an anticholinergic (not positive) that has effects
for several weeks and is very potent.
Blind Angel - 24-10-2005 at 10:03
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bz/bz.shtml
Mostly all anti-choligernic have chance to induce fear, not always though.
Drugs
MadHatter - 25-10-2005 at 08:04
60 Minutes did a segment many years ago on soldiers who volunteered to be
test subjects for drugs. IIRC, it was the U.S. Army that did the tests. The segment
included interviews of the volunteers and military footage of the reactions they had.
The drugs tested were LSD and BZ. The guys on acid looked like they were having
a good time. The ones on BZ appeared to be totally withdrawn from the world -
almost non-responsive.
other toxins
chemprodder - 27-10-2005 at 14:47
how bout adrenal cortical/ secretions brain makes when under panic?...i also heard of a chem callled DPT...that made stong bad hallucinations so
intense the user thought he or she was in hell?!
Blind Angel - 27-10-2005 at 18:29
DPT, diisopropyltryptamine is an hallucinogène in the same class of DMT (which is stronger), DET, LSD and all other tryptamine, for reference on the
subject please look at Tihkal (free on erowid)
As for brain chemistry, it's mostly, i think, a cocktail of chemical more than one precise (adrenaline being certainly one of the most produced)
so there is no real answer. Emotion control is something that scientist only start fidgetting with, it's way more complex than you might think.
sparkgap - 28-10-2005 at 02:38
I wouldn't consider anticholinergics as "fear inducing chemicals", so to speak (this was tackled in an earlier thread in
"Biochemistry"
.
Although, the symptoms of intoxication with atropine and ilk (dilated pupils, sweating, etc.) *might* be construed as an experience of fear.
sparky (~_~)
what about in-direct panic?
chemprodder - 30-10-2005 at 17:20
Well yes i do see the point that the actual human emotion is very hard to contolll by tech means......But what about this:
A) any hallucinagen that produces more of grimmer hallucinations rather than pretty patterns(more like a "ightmare on elm street" trip)
b) or how bout a chemical that produces more of a physical panic rather than a emotional state?( like a sinister MDMA?) perhaps causes high
bloodpressure and disorentation?
...
panic(not fear) is truly based on the perception of our physical senses then i am sure there can be a chemical way to provide that.....as Brry rothman
stated " if it exists in the world of humanity then there can also be a synthetic way to re-create it...."
guy - 28-11-2005 at 00:26
Datura plants (thorn apples, angel's trumpets) contain the highly toxic anticholinergic alkaloids hyoscyamine, scopolamine, and atropine. They
are cause strong hallucinations. For more information, see this site.
DDTea - 25-12-2005 at 16:54
I'm also going to jump on the anticholinergic deliriant boat regarding what type of chemical could cause those symptoms.
The wobbly vision and demonic hallucinations in Batman Begins reminded me a lot of (dare I say it..) overdosing on dramamine. I imagine absorption
and the onset of symptoms would be a lot faster if inhaled, as this is usually the case with alkaloids.
There are so many plants that contain anticholinergics; Belladonna, Jimson Weed (Datura Inoxia), and Henbane are the more common ones, and have
earned nicknames like "Devil's Cherry" and "Devil's Weed." But in Batman Begins, they said the guy "purified and weaponized" the active ingredient
from the plant. To me, that sounds like BZ.
One of the big things about deliriants is that they don't disable the basic, physical functions of a man; at lower doses, they only target higher
functions--coherent thought, speech, coordination. When it comes to people's reactions...if they don't know they've been drugged, they're going to
react to what they see as they normally would. The typical example is you touch your computer mouse and you realize that you just set your hand on a
1 foot spider. Of course it makes absolutely no sense to a normal person, but then to a person with disorganized thought...
The interesting thing about anticholinergic hallucinations, though, is that the really wild stuff happens in the dark; that is, you can disintegrate
the aforementioned 1 foot spider with a flashlight. 
If only they were better regarded by the druggy community...we could get some interesting studies going.
Binary system
goblin - 10-1-2006 at 08:40
While there may be no toxin in itsself that would produce fear, how about a combo. While LSD or BZ wont produce panic of fear all the time i belive if
you stimulate fear like symptoms within a person the mind may gear the hallucinations down the more grim path:
example: BZ-produces hallucinations+Amyl Nitrate-produces rapid pulse+belladonna or amphetamine-panic like state....all these combonations would
trigger what you consider to be fear.