Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Republicans have control now. What effect does this have on chemistry?

Cou - 5-11-2014 at 16:31

I've heard that the reason high school chemistry labs are so boring nowadays, is because of chemophobic liberals trying to ban everything with long names. But on the other hand, drugophobic republicans are trying to ban everything that can possibly be used to make meth. I wouldn't be surprised if they ban water. So I guess chemistry is doomed, no matter what.

Etaoin Shrdlu - 5-11-2014 at 17:18

They both head in the same general direction, just screaming different things along the way.

Steam - 5-11-2014 at 17:26

Honestly, the best thing for chemistry is if there was less of the "Big-Brother" watching. I fear that recently, American government has been trying harder and harder to control our lives. ie. the NSA's PRISM program, government issued healthcare, and etc. But no matter how hard it is for home chemists these days in America, just be thankful that we don't live in Australia! No offence Australians, but you guys have it rough when it comes to chemical regulations!;)

gardul - 5-11-2014 at 17:35

While by theory I fall in the republican compass. In reality I do not see much of a difference in the two parties. If you pay close attention and show no bais and look at what congress and the president have passed in the last 30 years, you couldn't tell them apart. Politics is a very intresting study to me. It just boils down to the gift of the silver tongue and who's is shinier.

[Edited on 6-11-2014 by gardul]

BromicAcid - 5-11-2014 at 17:43

Nearly everyone suffers from Chemophobia. Doesn't matter which party is in charge with regards to that aspect.

Bert - 5-11-2014 at 18:36

Both major US parties are bought and paid for by the same interests. Why would you expect a difference in anything but rhetoric?

Any 3rd party that gains traction will also be co-opted by same interests. Witness "Tea Party".

US politics (foreign policy ESPECIALLY) needs to be stable for various long term investments to perform as planned. The concept that a different face in a national office every 2-4 years would be allowed to ruin long term plans... Is not happening.

But the sound & fury of the multi year election news cycle certainly does make for good advertising revenue, and the ammount of time spent in online bickering sucks away energy and thought that might otherwise endanger the status quo.

j_sum1 - 5-11-2014 at 18:37

Quote: Originally posted by Steam  
Honestly, the best thing for chemistry is if there was less of the "Big-Brother" watching. I fear that recently, American government has been trying harder and harder to control our lives. ie. the NSA's PRISM program, government issued healthcare, and etc. But no matter how hard it is for home chemists these days in America, just be thankful that we don't live in Australia! No offence Australians, but you guys have it rough when it comes to chemical regulations!;)

As one living in Australia (resident not native) I haven't been too hindered by regulations. Admittedly I am in the early stages of the process and maybe have not yet had time to encounter problems. But I have had an easy time stocking my lab with basic chemicals from the supermarket. All acids other than HCl and citric need to be from a chemical supplier but there are work-arounds for that. Hardware stores, pool suppliers and pottery suppliers have also furnished me with some useful chemicals with no real difficulties.
I think it helps that my interest is inorganic rather than organic chemistry.
Some glassware (separator funnels and distillation equipment) is restricted. Not illegal to own but you do have to jump through hoops if you want to buy it locally. That's what eBay is for though.

Etaoin Shrdlu - 5-11-2014 at 18:47

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Any 3rd party that gains traction will also be co-opted by same interests. Witness "Tea Party".

One of the more frightening things I've seen in a while. Took, what, months, at most, from the time they started to be taken seriously?

Bert - 5-11-2014 at 19:50

EVERYTHING in the USA can be understood as a business model.

If you're a large established business, would you buy out a promising startup? ESPECIALLY if it looks like an effective future competitor? Of course!

Same for anything else likely to be influential- New information technology business. Political party. Drug cartel. Terrorist cadre. To paraphrase a certain CIA director's candid remarks some time back: SOMEONE will be doing these things. We need to have control.

As a side benefit, some nice profits. Money is power.

Pardon me, it's snowing for the first time of the winter, and that always puts me in a certain mood...

Chemosynthesis - 5-11-2014 at 22:50

I am pretty dubious there will be any real effect on home chemistry. My reasoning is that the Republican party has so many issues of conflict with current legislation, they have been focusing on the Tenth Amendment fairly heavily due to this, they do not have the ability to overturn presidential veto, and we have seen large shifts in state power on issues including marijuana and firearms, sometimes against federal law (Firearms Freedom Acts), and they seem on a collision course with administrative policies on immigration and coal/Keystone pipeline energy issues. There also is obvious internal warring over whether or not to restrict the NSA given House resolution back in January.

And these are just the domestic issues. I don't see national chemistry restrictions coming into play soon unless something changes.

franklyn - 6-11-2014 at 09:42

You know your government is finished when it needs to create more government offices and agencies to oversee existing government offices and agencies , all the while endlessly borrowing money to pay interest on the money they’ve already borrowed. The government makes you believe that you can’t survive without it. They try to tie you in to their system and exact punishment to those who opt out , because it's the government that needs citizens to feed off of. Utter failure is imminent and then marshal law will prevail. Misdirection and misguidance will defray the willfully ignorant from forming effective opposition. If that is inadequate you'll just be killed off. That is what's done to internal challengers in all countries. No one ever prevails unarmed in an insurgence against dedicated law enforcement personnel. Even if a rebellion could be instigated , just as the British hired German Hessian mercenaries to combat the revolt of the American colonies , your government can call on foreign military forces ( under United Nations ) to quell the population for mutual self interest , since the working population is the guarantee foreign debt will be repayed , but only so long you can continue to be exploited.

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion. What you want media to present is ostensible diversity which conceals an actual uniformity. When people are deprived of independent thought , only then it becomes possible to subject them to the will of one man.
— Joseph Goebels

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms , it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
— Abraham Lincoln

• www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Docum...

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Etaoin Shrdlu - 6-11-2014 at 11:00

Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
Even if a rebellion could be instigated , just as the British hired German Hessian mercenaries to combat the revolt of the American colonies , your government can call on foreign military forces

Right. How did that go for the British, again? It's been so long I don't recall.

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 16:36

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
Even if a rebellion could be instigated , just as the British hired German Hessian mercenaries to combat the revolt of the American colonies , your government can call on foreign military forces

Right. How did that go for the British, again? It's been so long I don't recall.


Very few service people would stand against their own people. Majority of those calling for war against the government here in america are ex or current military with milita ties. The US government would have to hire out side armies or gather civilians to fight for their cause ( which wouldn't be to hard since most people are easily influenced).

Frankly, I don't see it coming any time soon as the stand off in UT kinda showed officals ( baised aside) some americans are willing to stand up for their ideals and not be pushed to the ground.


So that being said, I really don't think this new wave of shifting power will effect home chemistry at all. Unless a new drug come popping up in market at some point. Or, something major like some one attempt to split atoms and blows up a neighbor hood.

[Edited on 7-11-2014 by gardul]

cyanureeves - 6-11-2014 at 17:13

we surely cant afford to harbor anti american government sentiments if we own guns or chemicals though.we got to keep our passions in check and have patience with stupid people. we have to just wait until stupid people unstupidify and out grow their crayon and paste eating stage.

gardul - 6-11-2014 at 17:38

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
we surely cant afford to harbor anti american government sentiments if we own guns or chemicals though.we got to keep our passions in check and have patience with stupid people. we have to just wait until stupid people unstupidify and out grow their crayon and paste eating stage.


That just made me laugh.. Thank you for that. While I some what agree, I don't think people will stop the paste easting as you put it. I saw on the news the other two people ran sacking a Mcdonalds because they couldn't order breakfest. I mean clearly the majority of the human race isn't evolving past base emotions. You don't know how many times ive been out with my wife and some sports fan starts throwing a hissy fit because their faverate team lost or did something stupid.

I have trouble keeping pateince with stupidty. In extreme cases at my job, for example.

Since I deal with international frieght, Some one here needed their freight. They called us to ask for an update. The vessel was still on the vessel in the ocean some where and hadn't docked into Los Angelos just yet. This person wanted to know WHY we couldnt just go get it. Trying to explain for 2 hours that the vessal is a large boat..... ocean means water....which means Truck can't drive in said water = we can not get. they hung up and call the owner of the company to complain that we are too slow in getting their product from the port. Two hours of my life I will never get back. I even think I lost a brain cell or two.

Stupid people will always refuse to unstupdify. While our education system contiunes to degrade into something of barbarian warefare, we all will be long dead before it gets better. I have seen schools drop Music, chemistry and art for people dangerous but keep funding sports. How is music dangerous? Violin bow poke someone in the eye?

jimmyboy - 7-11-2014 at 15:20

Quote:

we surely cant afford to harbor anti american government sentiments if we own guns or chemicals though.we got to keep our passions in check and have patience with stupid people. we have to just wait until stupid people unstupidify and out grow their crayon and paste eating stage.


I'm sorry I just had to chime in for some reason.
I hope you can live 200 years fellow chemist because
from what I have seen/experienced you have to wait for
the old generation to die off before anything moves
forward to any degree.

Our system of govt moves at a glacial pace and
seeing how people are living to be 100 a lot more
often it could indeed be a long long wait.

If you have any dreams don't wait for people to
"give you permission" move to where you can chase
and fulfill them because you can get old quick before
you even realize it

Oxirane - 9-11-2014 at 03:23

American democracy at it's best: practically a two-party single-politics system.

Can't say if things are much more better anywhere else though.

It feels that every country is competing in a race to the bottom. Every country's becoming shittier and shittier.

franklyn - 10-11-2014 at 08:26

How ugly it can get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIq82K8eDds
You really think they're kidding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD1T61oTrR8
This is how it starts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBiJB8YuDBQ

Related threads
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6647&a...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=42211

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Chemosynthesis - 10-11-2014 at 09:50

No surprise FEMA IS-22 civilian readiness guidelines recommend at least 72 hours food on hand for disasters.

macckone - 10-11-2014 at 10:36

Texas is an example of how bad it can get under republicans.
Better get rid of that coffee pot.

Which I admit is not much worse than under democrats
as exhibited in california where everything down to
drain cleaner is heavily regulated.

gregxy - 20-11-2014 at 14:44

^What Bert said ^

It is always about money. The people that run the government makes a profit on every dollar that passes through them. (think of the old cost +7% stuff). The deomcrats spend on social programs. The republicans on the military. Its not about stopping terrorism or drug use its about justifying government spending.

The only difference between a government and a corporation is that you don't HAVE to buy what a corporation sells you.

aga - 20-11-2014 at 15:19

It would appear that the Illusions of freedom et al were only ever provided to allow the populace to be Controlled, as any infringement just sparks arguments and heated debate amongst the masses, while the Powers-that-be happily carry on regardless.

In fact, all US home chemists should change their surnames to Monsanto for insurance.

Imagine that : State of New York vs Monsanto.

(substitute for any state you like)

That'd cause quite a few phone calls, and maybe presidential intervention before they realised the chain of errors.

Kavion123 - 12-1-2015 at 20:03

People who study political science are too stupid to study the physical sciences.

gardul - 17-1-2015 at 09:03

Quote: Originally posted by Kavion123  
People who study political science are too stupid to study the physical sciences.


That isn't true at all. Thank you for calling me stupid.