Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Catalytic Convertor... for your lungs? Cobalt technology allows underwater breathing without an oxygen tank!

Portability - 5-10-2014 at 12:24

http://mashable.com/2014/10/03/crystal-breathe-underwater/

I've always known about how cobalt can adsorb oxygen into a reactive species.... but this is an ingenious application of it. Not unlike compounds that can absorb and store hydrogen and then later release it with the right applied energy...
Quote:

Cobalt gives the new material precisely the molecular and electronic structure that enables it to absorb oxygen from its surroundings," McKenzie said. "Small amounts of metals are essential for the absorption of oxygen, so actually it is not entirely surprising to see this effect in our new material," she said.

The material, like a sponge, can absorb oxygen and release it many times over. Once the oxygen is absorbed it can be released with a small amount of heat or by exposing it to low oxygen pressure, like a vacuum. The researchers are also investigating whether the oxygen release could be triggered by light.

"When the substance is saturated with oxygen, it can be compared to an oxygen tank containing pure oxygen under pressure — the difference is that this material can hold three times as much oxygen," McKenzie said.

Oscilllator - 6-10-2014 at 01:43

While this may seem initially like a good idea, there are a lot of problems with it. Firstly, oxygen solubility in water is quite low - about 8mg/L for seawater at 20°. This means you will have to process many many litres of water for each breath if you want to extract the oxygen from seawater, so you will have to have some kind of pump.
Secondly, oxygen is toxic. Breathing 100% oxygen is ultimately fatal, so it needs to be diluted with another gas like nitrogen. Where are you going to get that gas from?
Although the article doesn't say as much, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this complex is soluble in water, which raises the question of how you are going to transfer the oxygen from the water to the complex.

forgottenpassword - 6-10-2014 at 04:52

This is a better source: http://www.sdu.dk/en/Om_SDU/Fakulteterne/Naturvidenskab/Nyhe...

Bert - 6-10-2014 at 06:36

Looking at some of the claims for this Oxygen storage technology- Stores less O2 per volume or weight than Sodium chlorate. If storage/release mechanism is not energy intensive, and occurs quickly enough, without requiring excessively high temperature swings- Could be useful.

What happens when one sticks a blasting cap into this highly oxygenated organic compound...

[Edited on 6-10-2014 by Bert]

Nicodem - 6-10-2014 at 08:13

The article is Chem. Sci., 2014, 5, 4017-4025 (DOI: 10.1039/C4SC01636J).

Co_complex.gif - 50kB

Fulmen - 6-10-2014 at 10:19

Quote: Originally posted by Oscilllator  
Firstly, oxygen solubility in water is quite low - about 8mg/L for seawater at 20°

That's not quite as bad as one might think, but still a factor 30 less than air. IIRC a person uses about 500liters of O2 per day, this equates into roughly 8mg/sec, meaning you'd need to circulate 1l/sec assuming 100% efficiency. That's going to make portable equipment impractical, but given enough power it could theoretically be used for permanent installations or large subs.

As for diluting the O2, since the dilutant won't be consumed it shouldn't be hard to carry enough for extended periods of submersion.

Random - 6-10-2014 at 12:27

Reading through this thread fish are pretty efficient at salvaging O2 from water. It would be useful to make a mechanism similar to fish breathing system.

Oscilllator - 6-10-2014 at 14:48

Quote: Originally posted by Random  
Reading through this thread fish are pretty efficient at salvaging O2 from water. It would be useful to make a mechanism similar to fish breathing system.

I don't know about you but I would feel pretty nervous rerouting my circulatory system through an external set of gills. Sounds like it would work on similar principles to a kidney dialysis machine.

Artemus Gordon - 6-10-2014 at 16:35

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen  
given enough power it could theoretically be used for permanent installations or large subs.


Submarines already have Oxygen generators and CO2 scrubbers that can provide breathable air for over 100 crew for months at a time. This doesn't seem to be a big improvment.

Random - 1-11-2014 at 04:40

Quote: Originally posted by Oscilllator  
Quote: Originally posted by Random  
Reading through this thread fish are pretty efficient at salvaging O2 from water. It would be useful to make a mechanism similar to fish breathing system.

I don't know about you but I would feel pretty nervous rerouting my circulatory system through an external set of gills. Sounds like it would work on similar principles to a kidney dialysis machine.


Yeah, well it could probabpy be possible but you would have to connect your blood vessels with the instrument and if it fails, well you are pretty much dead.

Zyklon-A - 1-11-2014 at 15:41

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen  
.

As for diluting the O2, since the dilutant won't be consumed it shouldn't be hard to carry enough for extended periods of submersion.

True, but that will prove to be much easier said than done. The dilutant (helium probably) will have to be constantly scrubbed of carbon dioxide, which in concentrations above ~3% causes suffocation regardless of oxygen concentration.
On the fish topic, their oxygen isolation methods need not be as efficient as for humans, as fish are cold-blooded and thus use far less oxygen per unit mass than us.

chemrox - 1-11-2014 at 16:39

This could be a real boon for breathing disability patients. A lot of interesting development is going to take place.