Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Table of VoD's of most Common Explosives

Table of VoD's of most Common Explosives

chemoleo - 17-2-2005 at 15:46

As this subject came up elsewhere, I thought it might be useful to post this. It covers most known & used explosives.
If someone'd like to add some, U2U me and I will edit this list at some point, with a new attachment. Please provide reference.
No, and at this point 'DPPP' won't be included

PS Bromic, didn't you have a list too?

Attachment: VoD's of common explosives.txt (63kB)
This file has been downloaded 6135 times

Quince - 17-2-2005 at 17:14

Thanks guys!

These would be best in a spreadsheet, as they could be sorted according to different properties. I think there was a way to import text file data into a spreadsheet, but I don't remember the details.

I converted Joeychemist's Word document to a PDF (1/4 the size).

Edit: Looks like Joeychemist deleted his post. Board administrators, one should not be able to delete a post after it has been replied to, for it can lead to confusion.

Edit by chemoleo: This has been discussed before. Stop telling the board what to do and what to change. It's already been subject to plenty of debate.

[Edited on 18-2-2005 by chemoleo]

Attachment: Properties of Explosives.pdf (112kB)
This file has been downloaded 3497 times

Quince - 17-2-2005 at 17:20

My PDF is leaner. Did you use Acrobat for conversion? I used the built-in converter of OpenOffice.

Edit: ohkaaay... you deleted another post I replied to... this is kind of funny, I suppose

[Edited on 18-2-2005 by Quince]

Joeychemist - 17-2-2005 at 17:22

I just got done converting it to a PDF myself but I guess Quince is a little faster than I. Thanks Quince. I deleted the previous posts which contained the large files as it was a waste of band width.

Yeah, that is kinda funny.Yours was smaller,that is why I deleted the two files I made.

[Edited on 18-2-2005 by Joeychemist]

Quince - 17-2-2005 at 17:35

Joeychemist, in your file OB is oxygen balance, yes?

chemoleo, in your file many lead block entries are missing, but that's understandable.

Ethyl perchlorate numbers are available according to that thread.

Nitroglycol does better than nitroglycerin on the block test (ref: chemoleo's file), but the latter has higher VoD. There is a similar inversion for AP/HMTD. What gives?

CL-20 (ref: Joeychemist's file) has the highest VoD listed. How much trust can we put in this number? Any numbers for octanitrocubane? Eaton's paper says the latter may exceed the former, but even though he synthesized it, he apparently didn't test it

How accurate do theoretical estimates tend to be when actually tested?

[Edited on 18-2-2005 by Quince]

chemoleo - 17-2-2005 at 18:17

Indeed, many values are missing, and if you thought about it you'd realise that's because the original references never quoted those values.
This includes any dubious values of ethylperchlorate you may have (or not).

Further, I lay no claim to the table whatsoever, it's been generated by D. Haarmann, who in some circles is well-known (again this I deliberately mentioned at the bottom of the table).

Nonetheless, I actually checked some of the references given in the first attachment, and they were fine.

[Edited on 6-11-2008 by chemoleo]

Formatik - 10-10-2008 at 18:27

Here is an updated list of Donald Haarmann's list, updated throughout the years by me. The file is now almost 3 times the original size. I collected the Urbanski data from Czech volumes. A few references are lacking, but oh well. And no, I also didn't include the Mackowiak patent.

[Edited on 10-10-2008 by Formatik]

Attachment: updated VOD list.doc (320kB)
This file has been downloaded 3587 times

-=HeX=- - 5-11-2008 at 09:11

I will update it myself soon with the figures for ETN. VoD approx 8000 m/s at 1.6 g/cc. 1.6 g/cc is the highest density obtained practically, however using a massive hydraulic press I got it to 1.7 g/cc by compressing in a PVC pipe in an Iron sleeve w/ a perspex screen between me and it. At 1.7 g/cc it was almost dead pressed and I had to use 5 grams TATP and some flake/ powder ETN to detonate.

Not the smartest thing I have done... I only did it to see could it be pressed that much. I notice that the VoD table does not gine density, thats a big omission IMHO. However at face value the table is invaluable! Here is my .pdf on TATP: http://rapidshare.de/files/39639088/TCAP_v1_2.pdf.html that I originally posted on Roguesci. I am now working on a .pdf on ETN and Lead/ silver azides also.

Formatik - 4-1-2009 at 23:33

I've had some problems archiving the file, but I've edited the list again. Revised, removed a handful of suspect values, cleaned-up, corrected some mistakes. Added more references and values. I've included journals, dissertations, and lectures. A reason few references are lacking since some of the data I also got from (German) encyclopedias which I don't know the names of. This should be the final edit from me. I've put it here.

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by Formatik]

quicksilver - 6-1-2009 at 07:31

@ Formatik :
Donald Haarmann has had some wonderful material over the years. Thanks for posting that. Donald had been a source for really unique material on UseNet many years back and at times I could not even imagine where he got some of the materials. Later I recognized a translation to English - which may have been done by hand (rather than translator software) as it was very well put together.

Formatik - 8-1-2009 at 22:07

Quote:

Originally posted by quicksilver
@ Formatik :
Donald Haarmann has had some wonderful material over the years. Thanks for posting that. Donald had been a source for really unique material on UseNet many years back and at times I could not even imagine where he got some of the materials. Later I recognized a translation to English - which may have been done by hand (rather than translator software) as it was very well put together.

I always suspected he lived in an encyclopedia wonderland.

Also, that link above is hogwash. New link: http://ifile.it/29mpley

hissingnoise - 6-2-2009 at 12:47

The very high VoD of 9300 m/s for TNM mixtures with toluene (on both lists) is quite surprising.
At ratios to give zero O.B., these dangerously sensitive mixtures should be extremely powerful indeed.
The problem for me is, how can mixtures of two such low density liquids detonate with such high brisance?
HMX, with a negative O.B. is listed at 9100 m/s.
Does the very low viscosity of these liquids explain the effect?

PHILOU Zrealone - 10-2-2009 at 06:25

Hi hissingnoise,

Such Binary mixes displays very high VODs because the energy output is higher:
1°)the OB can be fitted to the best energy output by playing with the ratio what is not true for pure HE.
It is known that varying the OB ratio has a strong impact on VOD.

2°)the enthalpy of reaction adds partly to the energy process.
As you know when making most HE, the reaction is exothermic, reason why cooling is provided.
Exothermic means a loss of energy...

I think that if you see the following reactions, you will understand the idea

Hfg CH4 = -66.6 KJ/mol
Hfg H2O = -238.9 KJ/mol
Hfg CO2 = -393.1 KJ/mol
Hfg HNO3 = -124.2 KJ/mol
Hfg CH3-NO2 = - 60.8 KJ/mol
Hfg H2 = Hfg N2 = 0 KJ/mol

From this you can find enthalpies standard of the following reactions:
1) CH4 + HNO3 --> CH3-NO2 + H2O (-108.9 KJ)
2) CH3-NO2 + H2O --> CO2 + 1/2 N2 + 3/2 H2 + H2O (-332.3 KJ)
3) CH4 + HNO3 --> CO2 +1/2 N2 + 3/2 H2 + H2O (-441.2 KJ)

You can conclude that the making of nitromethane molecule (reaction 1) is a loss of energy and that detonating methane and HNO3 (reaction 3) would be more favourable (on an energy output) than detonating nitromethane (reaction 2).

This might explain the incredible power of those mixes:
Nitric acid + fuel:
HNO3 + benzene vs TNB
HNO3 + acetonitrile
...
Panclastites:
N2O4 + benzene
...
TNM + fuel:
C(NO2)4 + benzene
...

[Edited on 10-2-2009 by PHILOU Zrealone]

gnitseretni - 10-2-2009 at 09:14

PHILOU: you mentioned nitric acid + fuel are powerful mixtures. Would I be out of line to ask if you could give some examples of such mixtures using fuels that are easy to come by, like Kerosene for example. Yeah, would 70% HNO3 + Kerosene work or does the HNO3 have to be near 100%? Hey wait a minute.. isn't HNO3 + Kerosene a rocket fuel? (just googled it and it is indeed) Ok, so such a mixture definately oughta be detonable, right? But probably not with 70% HNO3??

WaveFront - 10-2-2009 at 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by hissingnoise
The problem for me is, how can mixtures of two such low density liquids detonate with such high brisance?

In fact, the speed of sound in liquids correlates inversely with density

c=sqrt(K/d)

c=speed
K=Factor of "incompressibility"
d=density

I wonder if certain mixes of liquids are less compressible than any of the components

Quote:

It is known that varying the OB ratio has a strong impact on VOD.

If Philou says, for sure is true. Although it is usual to listen that velocity of reaction in mixes is slower (lower brisance) than in pure explosives. The ethernal and sometime obscure concept of brisance...

hissingnoise - 11-2-2009 at 08:31

Thanks for that, guys---it helps; the concept of brisance though, certainly *is* somewhat mysterious and probably not fully understood, even today.
With solid HEs density does seem to have a more predictable effects on brisance, but even here anomalies arise. . .

PHILOU Zrealone - 11-2-2009 at 08:35

Quote:

Originally posted by gnitseretni
PHILOU: you mentioned nitric acid + fuel are powerful mixtures. Would I be out of line to ask if you could give some examples of such mixtures using fuels that are easy to come by, like Kerosene for example. Yeah, would 70% HNO3 + Kerosene work or does the HNO3 have to be near 100%? Hey wait a minute.. isn't HNO3 + Kerosene a rocket fuel? (just googled it and it is indeed) Ok, so such a mixture definately oughta be detonable, right? But probably not with 70% HNO3??

The use of HNO3 100% (CNA = concentrated nitric acid) reduces the amount of dead weight (30% water is a famous dead weight!); water displays also a very high heat capacity and heat of vapourisation that scavenge the heat of detonation...
That is why water tempers the heat (fire) so wel...and heat energy is one of the major factor of the detonation process and VOD.
Explosives that displays less H atoms (more insaturations) displays higher heat of explosions...multiple bonding increases the energy per volume, and no or little water produced favourise the best heat output.

Mixes of CNA with various fuels are shock sensitive HE.
The best is when the oxydiser and the fuel are miscible.
*Benzene or nitrobenzene with CNA more brisant and higher VOD than TNB!
*CH3-C#N and CNA (100% miscible and displays the power of NG, note the unsaturation linked to the nitrile group

N#C-C#N is one of the hottest burning stuff (4000°C vs 3100°C for H-C#C-H)...that's why I think percyano compounds admixed with pernitrocompounds must be the best binary HE of all times!It excludes H atoms and contains a lot of unsaturated energy rich bonds per volume.
But who wants to play with tetracyano methane and tetranitromethane

?
*NH4NO3/CH3-NO2/H2SO4 conc mix of Axt contains discretely CNA (generated from NH4NO3 and H2SO4)...so in there there is NM/CNA binary mix it displays a higher VOD and brisance than NM!
*a lot of other examples

Beware that storage is inadvisable for most of those mixes because of the inherent shock and heat sensitivity, but also sometimes because of the slow exothermic reactions that occurs in them...

hissingnoise - 11-2-2009 at 09:07

Those mixtures should be only of academic interest; the simple act of mixing would be itself, fraught with danger. . .
Storing them would be highly dangerous!

gnitseretni - 11-2-2009 at 10:08

Yes, I can confirm that HNO3/NM are powerful mixes. I even used 70% HNO3 in these mixtures at ratios of 70% NM/30% HNO3 in small charges and 75% NM/25% HNO3 in larger ones. Unfortunately, NM is getting outrageously expensive which has me looking for mixtures that use easily available fuels.

By the way, I've read folks warning people to be careful when extracting HNO3 with MC because it forms an explosive mixture. My question is.. is it a powerful one?

Haven't seen anyone ask that question before

The WiZard is In - 8-4-2010 at 16:00

Quote: Originally posted by Formatik

Here is an updated list of Donald Haarmann's list, updated throughout the years by me. The file is now almost 3 times the original size. I collected the Urbanski data from Czech volumes. A few references are lacking, but oh well. And no, I also didn't include the Mackowiak patent.

[Edited on 10-10-2008 by Formatik]

---
Wow I am glad to see that someone has kept my work up to date.
I see my original DOC file is dated April, 1995 and 2002! As this is a DOC file me thinks that — you could use MS Word's "Convert text to table." As a table it could to sorted using which column you desire. Or you could import it into Excel and sort as required.

The WiZard is In - 8-4-2010 at 16:09

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

The very high VoD of 9300 m/s for TNM mixtures with toluene (on both lists) is quite surprising.
At ratios to give zero O.B., these dangerously sensitive mixtures should be extremely powerful indeed.
The problem for me is, how can mixtures of two such low density liquids detonate with such high brisance?
HMX, with a negative O.B. is listed at 9100 m/s.
Does the very low viscosity of these liquids explain the effect?

Bad luck perhaps.

In 1920 at the University of Münster a massive iron gas
burner containing a residue of 10 grams of tetranitromethane
and toluene mixture decomposed suddenly. The detonation
splintered the container, and of 300 students in the area,
10 were killed and 20 injured!

Several secondary references. Primary reference not seen
by me:

Zeitschrift für das Gesamte Schiess- und Sprengstoffwesen
25:439 1930

An explosion may be defined as a loud noise
accompanied by the sudden going away of
things from the places where they were before.
Joseph Needham

The WiZard is In - 9-4-2010 at 09:01

Quote: Originally posted by chemoleo

Indeed, many values are missing, and if you thought about it you'd realise that's because the original references never quoted those values.
This includes any dubious values of ethylperchlorate you may have (or not).

Further, I lay no claim to the table whatsoever, it's been generated by D. Haarmann, who in some circles is well-known (again this I deliberately mentioned at the bottom of the table).

Nonetheless, I actually checked some of the references given in the first attachment, and they were fine.

[Edited on 6-11-2008 by chemoleo]

Attached in my original 2002 version in Doc Table format
which can be sorted by column.

Attachment: Explosives Detonation velocity table.doc (615kB)
This file has been downloaded 3079 times

Well, well

Formatik - 9-4-2010 at 10:46

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

Wow I am glad to see that someone has kept my work up to date.
I see my original DOC file is dated April, 1995 and 2002! As this is a DOC file me thinks that — you could use MS Word's "Convert text to table." As a table it could to sorted using which column you desire. Or you could import it into Excel and sort as required.

He arises from a sea of books.

The WiZard is In - 9-4-2010 at 12:11

Quote: Originally posted by Formatik

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

He arises from a sea of books.

An ever increasing sea of books. My shelves look more
like Google.com/books every day! Could have saved
a SL of money years ago.

Any rate - If your DOC was in the original format w/
tab stops (assuming it contained them) it could be
converted into a table and sorted by columns.
The one posted lack tabs and therefore, cannot
be converted.

GalacticIceBear - 12-10-2010 at 03:57

HNIW
melting point: decomposes at 260 °C
molecular mass: 438.19 g/mol
density: 1.98 g/mL
sensitivity: very low
chemical formula: C6H6N12O12
explosive velocity: 10300 m/s

Lord Emrone - 13-10-2010 at 09:35

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

*NH4NO3/CH3-NO2/H2SO4 conc mix of Axt contains discretely CNA (generated from NH4NO3 and H2SO4)...so in there there is NM/CNA binary mix it displays a higher VOD and brisance than NM!

So this should work with nitrobenzene too (instead of nitromethane) ? And if so, how safe is it ?

hissingnoise - 13-10-2010 at 11:36

Quote:

And if so, how safe is it ?

Safe???
A Sprengel explosive called Hellhoffite consisting of 78% HNO3 and 28% nitrobenzene was used in blasting operations about a century ago . . .
It was nearly as strong as dynamite but was dangerously sensitive to shock!

quicksilver - 13-10-2010 at 15:44

SAFE????*

Nitrobenzene is a wonderfully toxic material in & of itself. Hellhoffite made it into a charming little classic entitled "Explosives 100 years ago" (Robert Hopler, ISEE Press) that has advertisements and info from the engineering & mining concerns of the late 19th century. {A bit of marketing & problems interlaced with explosive disasters of the day}: "The most horrid septic problems arose from chips of bone being driven into those left with less than lethal injuries".
Hissingnoise was very gentle when he used the expression "dangerously sensitive to shock".

However the Sprenge concept was an interesting one & was very successful in KinePak and KineStik. There is even a new one now that a ready to mix watergel in two parts. (Journal of Explos Eng Sept/Oct 2010 vol 27 #5) that MIGHT be marketed by Austin Powder for open pit uses within this coming year.

* Scorpions can be frozen in solid blocks of ice and maintained there for quite some time. When the block of ice is melted the scorpion is revived and alive!
Scorpions were even found at many "ground zero" blast sites before nuclear testing went underground. There, alive in radiation that continued to be impassable and the ground in many areas fuzzed as glass. Humans are such a sensitive life form.

http://wild-facts.com/2010/04/26/wild-fact-825-todays-fact-m...

[Edited on 13-10-2010 by quicksilver]

Lord Emrone - 14-10-2010 at 05:01

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

Quote:

And if so, how safe is it ?

78 % + 28 % is not 100 %
Or do you mean not concentrated NA and very diluted Nitrobenzene ?
If The NA is diluted enough (I have 60% NA) wouldn't the mixture be safe enough ?
And ; How do people here know that ANNMSA is stronger than ANNM ?

hissingnoise - 14-10-2010 at 05:35

Yes sorry, it should of course be 72% HNO3!

Quote:

Or do you mean not concentrated NA and very diluted Nitrobenzene ?

Nitrobenzene acts as a fuel in these mixtures - any diluent for NB is likely also to be a fuel.
And for complete detonation near anhydrous HNO3 is required.

Quote:

If The NA is diluted enough (I have 60% NA) wouldn't the mixture be safe enough ?

A 40% water content would make the mix so weakly explosive it would likely not be detonable.

Quote:

How do people here know that ANNMSA is stronger than ANNM ?

Fucked if I know!

Jimbo Jones - 14-10-2010 at 10:31

Quote: Originally posted by Lord Emrone

How do people here know that ANNMSA is stronger than ANNM ?

ANNM = Ammonium Nitrate & Nitromethane

ANNMSA = Ammonium Sulfate & Nitromethane & Nitric acid.

It's obvious!

hissingnoise - 14-10-2010 at 11:01

It isn't obvious to me at all.
Which composition do you believe is more powerful and what's your rationale for that belief?

Lord Emrone - 14-10-2010 at 15:15

I once detted ANNMSA and it exploded ,which surprised me. It didn't seem stronger than straight ANNM, which is much easier and healthier to make.
I don't think the mixture would work with nitrobenzene instead of NM, since my attempts to det AN-Nitrobenzene failed. It's a strange assumption anyway, to think that CNA is exchangeable with SA - AN

Jimbo Jones - 16-10-2010 at 09:07

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

It isn't obvious to me at all.
Which composition do you believe is more powerful and what's your rationale for that belief?

ANNM is simple oxidizer & fuel explosive mixture. The nitromethane has explosive properties too, which boost the mixture beyond the different ANFO compositions. Maybe the AN somewhat acidic characteristics acts like sensiting agent to the NM, but this is just speculations.

In the case of ANNMSA we have primitive, but very effective Sprengel type of explosive composition in which the ammonium sulfate acts only as a filer. The density of the liquid explosives is another factor, but I’ll bet you already knew this.

Sorry for the bad English, too much work and too much rakia these days.