Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Carbamide Peroxide

Carbamide Peroxide

Aechaen - 21-5-2002 at 18:57

I have come across a substance synthesis for carbamide peroxide:
Using a mortar and pestle, crush 20g urea into a powder. Place this in a shallow pyrex dish and add, with stirring, 35ml of a 30% hydrogen peroxide solution. The resulting mixture should have a dough consistency. Stir in 1.5g of powdered gelatine. Let the mixture stand for 5 hours, it will solidify, forming the carbamide peroxide. Uses: In smoke compositions. Mixtures with sodium dithionite are impact sensitive.

Now, i have searched this out (though not as much as i could) and havn't really come across much. I'm really interested in this generally, but more specically how powerful is it, sensitivity, and maybe a more detailed process (Note: comparisons to AP help).

madscientist - 22-5-2002 at 17:27

Carbamide peroxide CO(NH2)2*H2O2

Properties: White crystals or crystalline powder; melting point (decomposes) 75-85C. Decomposed by moisture and temperatures about 40C. Soluble in water, alcohol, and ethylene glycol. Solvents such as ether and acetone extract the hydrogen peroxide and may form explosives solutions. Active oxygen (minimum) 16%.

Uses: Source of water-free hydogen peroxide, bleaching; disinfectant; cosmetics; pharmaceuticals; blue print developer; modification of starches.

Fire hazard: Dangerous.

Shipping regulations: Oxidizing material. Yellow label.

madscientist - 5-6-2002 at 14:17

I just realized I forgot to say this: carbamide peroxide is not explosive.

By the way, it should be quite obvious, but the above post was not off the top of my head, it was an excerpt from my chemical dictionary.

vulture - 20-8-2002 at 08:30

Carbamide peroxide is often sold as "solid peroxide" tablets because it contains H2O2 as crystalwater, much like perborates.

Conclusively, it is not an organic peroxide, thus not explosive. (This is not a general truth btw)

urea peroxide detonates

KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun) - 12-10-2002 at 18:35

to vulture: it is not necessary to have a -O-O- bond attached to an organic compound to accept it as a peroxide explosive
H2O2 is a powerful oxidiser I don't remember where I read a gelled explosive made from H2O2 cellulose is more powerful than TNT
urea is a fuel that sometimes is used in Commerical explosives
so it should detonate like this:
CO(NH2)2.H2O2 => CO + N2 + 2H2O + H2

Ramiel - 14-10-2002 at 01:10

How sensitive is this compound to heat/friction/shock?

KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun) - 21-10-2002 at 13:41





       I dreamed to make urea peroxide and TMDD



1. 67.5 urea was added to a jar. Then enough hot water was added to make all the urea dissolved (solution temperature was around 60°C).



2. 100 ml (a few ml more) of 45.53% H2O2 was added (when the solution was still hot). Then it was cooled to room temperature and after that chilled
with an ice bath.

 At 15°C a mass of crystals was observed. I put the jar in freezer, when It was at 0°C I filtered it.



3. the next day (I was in hurry at the time so didn't calculate anything)I added formalin to the residue (nearly 3/2 parts of volum of the residue).
it started to warm. so I put some crashed ice in the jar and stirred, then I poured hydrochloric acid (solution was still hot). Exactly at the moment
the solution turned into a milky thing (better to say bonnyclabber!) the hole liquid had turned into a big chunk.

KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun) - 22-10-2002 at 18:02

I made a typo. I writed hole instead of whole! (the whole liquid ...)
the tmdd which was made with the residue has a lot of impurity (probably Urea-formaldehyde resin)
that's because the solution was hot.
the urea peroxide is almost dry I will do some tests to see if it can detonate.

PHILOU Zrealone - 5-3-2003 at 03:08

Urea and CH2=O in strong acidic media polymerises imediately into ureaformol 3D thermohardening plastic!

Better watch properties of all reactants before acting and loose valuable stuff or risk your live!

When working with new stuffs better start small as you don't know the properties of the new compounds! 100g of possible sensitive high explosive TMDD (or OMTD) is absolutely insane!
Don't tempt the devil man!

Urea peroxyde is not explosive, and if detonable it should be as insensitive as plain AN if not it wouldn't be sold dry in 100 kg drums to shampoo factories (I have worked in one)

Bert - 7-9-2017 at 09:33

Might carbamide peroxide be applicable to this synthesis?

And what the heck IS the actual product of the procedure described here? Author of the patent says it is not known, but hey, let's add it to HE mixtures...

PHILOU Zrealone - 10-9-2017 at 14:21

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

Might carbamide peroxide be applicable to this synthesis?

And what the heck IS the actual product of the procedure described here? Author of the patent says it is not known, but hey, let's add it to HE mixtures...

Probably wel that Urea peroxyde adduct may be used since it is equivalent to urea + H2O2.

The strange thing is that they make use of HNO3 instead of another unoxydising acid ... because HNO3 is uncompatible with CH2=O (formaldehyde)...
If you mix 30% formol (formaldehyde hydrate) or a polymeric form of formaldehyde with 69% HNO3 ... after a few seconds a runnaway starts evolving copious amounts of NxOy while the all batch turns into boiling mix of liquid and gas... not nice ... suffocating mix of NxOy and formaldehyde with formic acid...

The "unknown" compound is relatively defined since they mention its composition to be C3N2H6O3...
You may have a guess by looking at the following tread of amine/peroxides by Axt what presents two known compounds with that formula with n=1 and n=2 ...

Thus:
1°) Eather (H2N-CO-N(-CH2-O-)2)n with n= 1, 2 or more
2°) Or(-O-CH2-NH-CO-NH-CH2-O-)n with n= 1, 2 or more
3°) Eventually a mix of both structures

What is strange also is that they don't imagine that instead of a C3N2H6O3 patern; it can be a C5N2H10O5 patern aswel since usually formaldehyde is so strong a methylen-ator that it replaces all possible active hydrogens?
==> ((-O-CH2-)2N-CO-N(-CH2-O)2)n with n= 1 or more

[Edited on 10-9-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]