Sciencemadness Discussion Board

how to identify hexamine.

Nevermore - 4-1-2005 at 04:54

I got a package of fire starter tablets, they are individually packed against humidity, white in colour, fragile like chalck, and no odour at all.
They burn slowly with an orange blue flame.
I wonder if they are Hexamine, what test should i do to check if is really hexamine or not?
:P

chemoleo - 4-1-2005 at 05:04

Dissolve it (is it water soluble), and add HNO3 (dilute, weak) in the cold. Hexamine dinitrate should crystallise out.

Although not specific, it's a start.

Alternatively, make a small amount of HMTD and simply see if it works :)

Nevermore - 4-1-2005 at 05:07

i tried to dissolve in water but seems it doesn't..
i will try with hot water but i suppose sadly that even this time i didn't get hexamine...
:(

Organikum - 4-1-2005 at 05:10

Dissolve a little bit in water - it should dissolve.
Add some drops HCl and stirr to hydrolize the hexamine into formaldehyde and ammoniumchloride, do this in the cold, this takes some time. Then basify with lye - when it smells like ammonia you very probably have hexamine.

Nevermore - 4-1-2005 at 05:24

i tried to dissolve in hot water, well seems is working, probably the tablets were covered with wax or some similar substance, since i have some white flakes floating around. Most of the tablet instead completely dissolved in water, only some big chunks seems to take longer..
i will try both tests to see which one will give me results, but now i filter out all the white powder floating on top.

@organickum
what do u mean in the cold? should be cooled to 4-5°C? and for how long should i let it sit before basifying? 20 mins should suffice?
Thanks

Organikum - 4-1-2005 at 09:51

Some hexamine tablets as "ESBIT" for example have some additives which float as you describe.

- roomtemperature is ok
- 1 hour for a small amount, stirr it a little bit from time to time.

Nevermore - 4-1-2005 at 11:32

well:
i filtered out the floats, they are indeed a small amount of flaky wax powder (maybe the tablet cover).
The result is a clear liquid with no smell.
I added 1 ml of 7% HCL and stirred good, after around 1 hour i added a little NaOH and waited for some smell..
Probably my NaOH was not pure since appeared some cloudy stuffs (like always happend with tech grade NaOH) however i didn't smell any NH3..
Possibly the HCL was too diluite..
I am attempting for the HNO3 test tomorrow.
I will use tech grade 50% HNO3, hope it will suffice..

Organikum - 4-1-2005 at 11:39

Add more HCl. ph below 3.
Add enough NaOH to neutralize the HCl - say an excess, check the ph it must be strong alkaline - 12.

And then heat it - if you have so much water the ammonia has to be driven out.

[Edited on 4-1-2005 by Organikum]

Nevermore - 4-1-2005 at 12:51

i suppose even this time what i have is not hexamine..
i added 50%nitric acid and no precipitate formed...
i will try ur test organikum but my hope is very small..

Nevermore - 10-2-2005 at 03:25

So i got a package of esbit tablets, the price was outrageous but finally i have it..
Ok i took a few pictures of Esbit tablets next to the ones i have, they look the same!!!
no smell, white, chalcky, fragile...
i let you see with your eyes..



Both dissolve in water leaving a white powder probably wax..doesn't have any smell, and are pretty heavy.

What is your opinion?

[Edited on 10/2/2005 by Nevermore]

neutrino - 10-2-2005 at 15:39

Does any smell build up in a closed container?

Dodoman - 10-2-2005 at 15:58

I have 99% pure hexamine. The bottel smells like raw fish.

Joeychemist - 10-2-2005 at 16:34

Just try and make HMTD with it, if you can successfully make an explosive peroxide with it, it is more than likely Hexamine. If you can't form a explosive it is not Hexamine.Have you thought about simply makeing you're own Hexamine?http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3229

Hexamine does smell, bad!

cyclonite4 - 10-2-2005 at 17:09

The hexamine I have is the Australian Military Fuel tablets (compressed hexamine, ADI brand), and man do they smell bad.

I have noticed that there is a small amount of wax in the tablets, but hardly any (I think it's just to help hold the tablet together).

I've successfully made HMTD from it, but because I was using 6% peroxide, the yeild was poor.

S.C. Wack - 10-2-2005 at 18:10

The tablets bought over here have the slightest fishy smell and dissolve completely and easily in water or alcohol. Slightly heating a little aq sol'n with a little HCl gives HCHO immediately.

JohnWW - 11-2-2005 at 00:07

Most polybasic amines are foul-smelling, mostly like rotting flesh. Other similar examples are cadaverine and putrescine.

hinz - 11-2-2005 at 15:07

Yesterday I tried to make some HMTD with some white stuff out of grill lighter. I thought it was hexamine but it wasn't.
It doesn't really dissolve in the 35% H2O2
solution. So I stirred and waited for 5 hours but there was no temperature rise like in the AP syntesis. Finally I filtered the white unknown stuff,which doesn't reacted, out of it and put some acetone in it.

What white stuff contains grill lighter, which isn't hexamine and how to make sure that it is/isn't hexamine. I thought on thermal decomposition, the hexamine should give NH3 and CH2=O but my white stuff gives only some white fumes when heated in a flask. It also doesn't smell like fish, it smells more like petrol althought I dried it for half a month on my oven.

The_Davster - 11-2-2005 at 15:20

I know what you are talking about by grill lighter, and it is definatly not hexamine. I have used this product while camping before, I think it is called "zip".

Nevermore - 11-2-2005 at 15:29

Quote:
Originally posted by Joeychemist
Just try and make HMTD with it, if you can successfully make an explosive peroxide with it, it is more than likely Hexamine. If you can't form a explosive it is not Hexamine.Have you thought about simply makeing you're own Hexamine?http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3229


if i could only get formaline over here..
seems that stuff over here is considered a watched chemical..
i can't get para as well..
nobody sells it, nobody has it, no pharmacy would sell you neither chemistry shop...
:mad:

KonkreteRocketry - 6-5-2013 at 11:10

Sorry for bringing up this old topic,

But i read somewhere hexamine produce formaldehyde, NOX, etc upon thermal decomposition..... what ? where did the oxygen molecule come from ?

If i use Hexamine as a solid rocket propellant (which seems interesting to me because you can make pure gas propellant from it and see some good mach diamonds) how will hexamine decompose without oxygen in the air ?

And, does LiCl turn to a gas at 2000 degree ?

Simbani - 6-5-2013 at 12:08

USE GOOGLE!! I googled 5 seconds and look what I found:
The studies reviewed are in general agreement that hexamine thermal decomposition in the temperature range of 300-800 degrees C is characterized by an increase in HCN and a decrease in NH3 emissions with increasing temperature. At temperatures of 200-300 degrees C hexamine decomposition is reported to produce mainly ammonia and formaldehyde.
Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry  

And, does LiCl turn to a gas at 2000 degree ?


Are you too stupid to google "LiCl boiling point" or "LiCl wikipedia" ??
Go away from pyrotechnics and energetics man, playing with dolls would be a good choice for you :mad::mad::mad:

elementcollector1 - 6-5-2013 at 14:10

Lay off him, there's no need for harsh words. It's like telling someone "Fuck you for asking questions!"
True, KR should've used Google/Wikipedia, but that can be summed up in the following sentence:
"Search online for yourself - Wikipedia for LiCl, Google the rest."
Bam. No flaming, conveys the needed information, no one devolves a thread into yet another flame argument.

I hate statements like "You're too stupid to do this, go back to playing with dolls" because that implies that there is a minimum intelligence level required to learn something, which there never is and (hopefully) never will be.

IrC - 6-5-2013 at 17:06

1,3,5-trioxane is another ingredient in large percentage for most stove fuel tablets on the market. Do not know the chemistry well enough to think of what effect this has on your hexamine extraction but considering the large amount of the tri-ox in the tablet's composition I would think it should be considered.

ManyInterests - 6-12-2021 at 21:48

Another thread I am necroing as I am trying to extract hexamine from the hexamine tablets (I got two brands, but I am using the esbit one for now, which is confirmed 99% hexamine). I added just under (or a bit more) of twice the required water to dissolve it. I am getting bits floating at the top, but it seems too much to be the wax binder. I remember another user (XeontheMGPony) who had a method of dry heating a beaker first before putting the crushed tablet in and adding distilled water to seperate everything before putting it in the fridge to let the wax float and solidify on top.

Is it possible to do this with room temperature water? I have my beaker already in the fridge. I also know that hexamine sublimated when it is heated, so boiling the water will result in hexamine entering the air. I was wondering if putting a thick covering of cheesecloth over the beaker will catch any sublimating while letting water vapors out, or at least make drying the hexamine easier.

Hexamine

MadHatter - 6-12-2021 at 22:39

Hexamine sublimates at 280C. I can't find any references
to decomposition in boiling water.

ManyInterests - 7-12-2021 at 03:19

Sooo... I can boil it and it'll precipitate normally? I don't have to worry about hexamine being in the air?

In that case I'd better add an excess of water to make sure everything is properly dissolved and the wax is the only thin in solution.

ManyInterests - 8-12-2021 at 20:38

Actually I was overthinking this as usual. Heating it to 100 C on my mantle and wrapped the top of the beaker with cheesecloth. I am not sure if the cheesecloth did anything (it was moist, but had no hexamine in it) and I got a very good yield of hexamine as the water completely dried from the heat.