Sciencemadness Discussion Board - SM Classifieds: A good idea?

SM Classifieds: A good idea?

Praxichys - 16-5-2014 at 10:30

Hi everyone,

It has come to my attention recently that there are an awful lot of threads in "Reagents and Apparatus Acquisiton" that relate to people buying or selling reagents and apparatus to other SM members.

I think it might be beneficial to SM to have a subforum designed to contain such listings in a strictly organized manner - a classifieds section.

Such a system might work by the following example:

[FOR SALE] Adamantane

Threads labeled "for sale" contain lists or links to lists of items for sale. Links to outside websites are permitted but only one thread is allowed per site.

[WANTED] Tetrahydrothiophene

Threads labeled "wanted" will specify the demand for a certain item and a quantity, and perhaps an asking price. Sellers will then be able to complete the transaction through U2U.

Stickies will be made for buyers/sellers who pay a fee to SM to get the thread stickied, perhaps something like $5-10/mo. This would allow high-volume suppliers to keep their threads at the top. It will allow SM to turn a small profit to help offset the costs of keeping the board alive.

Some points:

Customers will be encouraged to bump a thread when a product is bought or sold, simply with a message "I bought this" or something like that, to keep active or "hot" listings at the top.

Ideally the subforum is auto-pruned to delete all non-stickied threads after one month of inactivity. Alternatively, when a seller/buyer wants to take down the thread (out of stock/purchase complete), the thread owner simply makes a post in the thread declaring it obsolete and ready for deletion. The mod for the classified subforum will then delete the thread.

A product/website can only be relisted after the original listing has been deleted. Failure to do so may result in all buy/sell threads by that user being deleted.

For sellers of multiple or inventoried items, the url to an image or a spreadsheet file can be posted in the original thread. The thread cannot be edited through SM but the file can still be updated on the remote server, allowing an up-to-date inventory to be maintained on the first post in that thread.

I have lots of other ideas about how such a system should work, and I would be glad to draft up a "Thread Rules" type sticky in the event that this subforum comes into being.

Let me know that you think!

Prax

Mailinmypocket - 16-5-2014 at 10:50

I think this is a great idea!

Bert - 16-5-2014 at 12:06

I am a member of several other forums that include a "commercial section", either an informal swapping & selling area, or a more organized type where some members are considered professionals and help pay for the site in return for a place to do business with people of whatever type that forum attracts.

I will say that these sales areas somehow end up causing the most moderator work and stress, as well as bad feeling between members of all the various sections on these sites. If sciencemadness.org has a culture such that the members will put their reputation as square dealers and other members best interests before their individual financial self interest, it might work without too much friction. I've seen some long standing glass and equipment sales threads here that seem to show such a good attitude.

I trade frequently on one site where most members place their reputation and camaraderie above profit, it is WONDERFUL to have a community like that! http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Swappin-...

But what happens when a (non hobbyist) salesman from glass "X" joins and starts to sell a bunch of profit driven/questionable stuff, or a con/ripoff burns a bunch of members?

Or there is just a disagreement, due to honest misunderstandings between members?

Or someone offers or transacts in a forbidden/watched item, deliberately violates hazmat shipping regulations or accidentally abets an underground for profit chem lab, violent political extremist or other legally "radioactive" type of customer... And this becomes known to intelligence, regulatory & law enforcement organizations? There are so many jurisdictions and rules, it could take several full time specialists to vet all the transactions for legality at both end and during shipping. One of the reasons lots of the major chem suppliers are hard to approach and expensive...

And who will take the time to ride herd on the proposed section- In my experience, it needs a close watch and constant attention to keep such an area working satisfactorily.

Zyklon-A - 16-5-2014 at 12:14

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

But what happens when a (non hobbyist) salesman from glass "X" joins and starts to sell a bunch of profit driven/questionable stuff, or a con/ripoff burns a bunch of members?

An idea I had is to have this sub-forum (should it ever exist) require special permission, like Whimsy and References. That way, nobody will be able to simply join the board to sell stuff, but rather become a legitimate member, before even knowing such a sub-forum exists on this board.

DrAldehyde - 16-5-2014 at 16:10

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

I like that idea.

elementcollector1 - 16-5-2014 at 16:14

Agreed, it should be closed off as References is.
As for moderation, I would certainly be willing to try, if necessary.

[Edited on 5-17-2014 by elementcollector1]

Fenir - 16-5-2014 at 16:33

I think that a subforum would be a good idea. Those just starting chemistry would be able to purchace materials without uncertainty.

Brain&Force - 16-5-2014 at 17:10

There should also be a stickied trade outcome thread (I've seen this on the Where's George forums) where reports can be looked at by mods if needed.

And, of course, not just a rules thread, but a general guidelines thread (including information about how to pay for things, etc.)

Polverone should really look at this, because there is potential to make money with stickied threads.

violet sin - 16-5-2014 at 17:48

I like the online flea-market idea

would be nice for members in different sectors of the world to be able to get stuff from near by/same country without having to resort to ebay. no change in laws, or import export issues could make area transactions much more fun. couple things to consider of course...

1) members just have to realize, small private sellers aren't going to buy 5 lbs of material X to part it out and make nothing off it, or simply keep a small portion free. but they shouldn't try to get richy rich off others either.

2) price shopping ebay for comparison, or other high volume locales could cause some frustration when, "but it was only this much here", starts getting thrown around like rice at a wedding.

3) solid legal defensive standpoint for sciencemadness.org to not get sued,.. for anything that might transpire! be it mailed out disclaimers/waivers that are signed and returned, some online release of liability or what have you.

4) moderators will have limited ability to do ANYTHING about money/product not showing up. except perhaps ban a ruthless seller/buyer. so I strongly second a rules/guidelines page and the "don't spend it if you can't pay bills without it" mentality upfront and center.

just my two cents here. it sounds fun, and possible if we act like adults in a community instead of anonymous internet dicks. I hope this happens, but it sure seems like it could be a lot of work, so I have my doubts it will get off the ground. I'm an optimist though

The Volatile Chemist - 16-5-2014 at 19:08

I saw this in stats, and said "YES" to the title. I'd been thinking about this, but more as a separate site and more trade oriented, but this is good too. BUT there are problems, and they seem to be focused on one type of item: Chemicals. This'd be great for books, equipment, and glassware, but no chemicals. The only way I can see them fitting in is if everything is redirected to e-bay accounts, so the sales technically don't happen on this site, they're just negotiated for on here.
Just throwing stuff around.

Praxichys - 17-5-2014 at 03:37

For me, I might sell chemicals at cost. There have been instances where I wanted 50g of something but the only solution was to order a kg from overseas for something like $250. (Cyanuric trichloride comes to mind) I would probably sell like 75% of it to members, without profit (except to recuperate shipping, etc) just so I wouldn't have to shell out that much for a single chemical.

This could also bridge the gap between those who have accounts at major chemical suppliers and those who need chemicals but cannot get them drop-shipped to a residential address.

I agree that the subforum should be locked to keep the conmen and the riffraff out.

There could also be a sub-sub forum where each thread is about a seller, where feedback is left. That way you can read about the seller before you buy.

Just thoughts

Texium - 17-5-2014 at 06:47

Or rather, sub-sub forums by region so everyone can easily find their local sellers

BromicAcid - 17-5-2014 at 07:22

Yes, it would be interesting to have a sub-forum for those types of things, but consider this:

Shipping: No matter the country, there are regulations about what can be shipped and how it must be packaged. Many of the 'good' chemicals that would be sold on that forum would no doubt be shipped illegally. Unfortunately ignorance is not a valid excuse in the eyes of the law for these sorts of offenses. Flaunting the law is one thing but there have been plenty of genuine disasters where chemicals were shipped improperly labeled. You don't even want to try this with international shipping.

Retroactive liability: At least in the US you can be held liable for the end use of a product you sell if you had reason to believe that your product may have been used or could be used to break the law. Pyrotechnic companies get the hassle enough and I was part of one of those shakedowns by the Department of Justice. In that instance I had purchased potassium perchlorate and aluminum powder. I was using the aluminum powder for aluminothermic reductions and the potassium perchlorate to make perchloric acid, but... I could have been using those things to make flashpowder. The company that I had purchased those chemicals from suffered the brunt of that attack and folded. Unfortunately chemicals are very versatile and even if you are not selling a schedule 1 chemical or the like your chemical might be used somewhere along the way and come back to bite you in the end.

Increased risk for the SM forum: Currently there is no prohibition on posting chemicals for sale on the forum but such posts are infrequent. But if they did become frequent enough that the subforum thrived then you now have two pieces of data in one easy place, a record of the reactions and discussions are person is taking place in as well as a record of chemicals they are purchasing. Technically speaking that would be putting all your eggs in one basket. Law enforcement loves information and if you provide them with both of these pieces of information they might have enough to determine probable cause.

These are my hurdles towards embracing this as a sub forum. In the past people have focused more on exchanges via U2U. I know I have had several good experiences with members posting about getting a new chemical and trying something out then contacting them and purchasing it from them via U2U. I have also responded to posts for things for sale via U2U, but making threads of purchases, reviews of buyers, that might be going a bit far and legitimizing things to the point of bringing scrutiny.

Rogeryermaw - 17-5-2014 at 08:42

i know there is no way to avoid the legal issues of shipping...or at least if you are intelligent, you wouldn't try, but, as far as liability goes, particularly concerning the end use of products you may distribute, what if those chemicals were given as a gift? i know that few are going to part with many things of value with nothing in return, but stranger things have happened.

The Volatile Chemist - 17-5-2014 at 15:03

Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid

Yes, it would be interesting to have a sub-forum for those types of things, but consider this:

Shipping: No matter the country, there are regulations about what can be shipped and how it must be packaged. Many of the 'good' chemicals that would be sold on that forum would no doubt be shipped illegally. Unfortunately ignorance is not a valid excuse in the eyes of the law for these sorts of offenses. Flaunting the law is one thing but there have been plenty of genuine disasters where chemicals were shipped improperly labeled. You don't even want to try this with international shipping.

Retroactive liability: At least in the US you can be held liable for the end use of a product you sell if you had reason to believe that your product may have been used or could be used to break the law. Pyrotechnic companies get the hassle enough and I was part of one of those shakedowns by the Department of Justice. In that instance I had purchased potassium perchlorate and aluminum powder. I was using the aluminum powder for aluminothermic reductions and the potassium perchlorate to make perchloric acid, but... I could have been using those things to make flashpowder. The company that I had purchased those chemicals from suffered the brunt of that attack and folded. Unfortunately chemicals are very versatile and even if you are not selling a schedule 1 chemical or the like your chemical might be used somewhere along the way and come back to bite you in the end.

Increased risk for the SM forum: Currently there is no prohibition on posting chemicals for sale on the forum but such posts are infrequent. But if they did become frequent enough that the subforum thrived then you now have two pieces of data in one easy place, a record of the reactions and discussions are person is taking place in as well as a record of chemicals they are purchasing. Technically speaking that would be putting all your eggs in one basket. Law enforcement loves information and if you provide them with both of these pieces of information they might have enough to determine probable cause.

These are my hurdles towards embracing this as a sub forum. In the past people have focused more on exchanges via U2U. I know I have had several good experiences with members posting about getting a new chemical and trying something out then contacting them and purchasing it from them via U2U. I have also responded to posts for things for sale via U2U, but making threads of purchases, reviews of buyers, that might be going a bit far and legitimizing things to the point of bringing scrutiny.

This is why I think it should be used solely for glassware and equipment, and not chemicals. With this restriction, I think the above Idea might work. This would mean that the old chemical sales would have to take pace in reagent acquisition forum, while normal sales could now take place in the new forum.

Texium - 17-5-2014 at 19:55

I don't really see the problem with having anything that might be sold in R&A in the new forum. It just seems like a more organized way of selling and buying. If anything, it makes us look better. Then again, I am not very experienced with buying and selling in general, and also tend to be overly optimistic about the logic of government watchers.

elementcollector1 - 17-5-2014 at 20:00

You'd think they'd look at the content of the site before making decisions... yet several raided chemists know otherwise.

Zephyr - 18-5-2014 at 08:39

I do not think selling chemicals will be a problem if such a forum emerges, after all, such transactions already exist. However we must obviously be careful not to sell any suspect chemicals, even if one has a legitimate use.

I think this is a great idea and I believe it will help home chemists immensely.

[Edited on 5-18-2014 by Pinkhippo11]

Burner - 18-5-2014 at 09:01

Quote: Originally posted by Pinkhippo11

However we must obviously be careful not to sell any suspect chemicals, even if one has a legitimate use.

I feel that if there is indeed a LEGITIMATE use then banning their sale is no different from the current commercial reality for amatuers. Legitimate uses of watched chemicals should not suffer from the illegitimate uses.

plante1999 - 18-5-2014 at 13:15

Agreed, I have some restricted chemicals I own, and would be glad to help just keeping a records of the sells for my own back up, but else then that, restricted chems are the main problematic in many country.

MrHomeScientist - 19-5-2014 at 06:38

I don't really see the need for this. What would such a sub-forum accomplish that isn't already taken care of in Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition? Almost all of the concerns raised here regarding shipping, liability, etc. already exist regardless of where on the forum the transaction takes place. The only new features I see proposed here are a "vendor credibility" metric and paying to have your thread stickied. The former is taken care of by buyer responses in the seller's thread, and the latter seems unfair to "small-time" sellers that don't have the cash to sticky their items (that's why they are selling in the first place!). (Also people could just repeatedly bump their own threads for free.)

There have been a couple calls for sub-sub-sub forums lately, when the amount of traffic on this board doesn't really warrant it. In the last 2 days there have been 37 new posts, with only about 5 of these being new threads. I could see the need for more forums if we had 100 new threads per day, but at this rate there isn't any overcrowding (pushing topics off page 1 quickly) at all. I think the level of segregation we have now is just fine.

The Volatile Chemist - 19-5-2014 at 07:09

I still think there should be no chemical sales in this new forum, that if they are to exist, they should take place in chemical acquisition. Hardware should be the only thing sold.

Zyklon-A - 19-5-2014 at 08:54

The Volatile Chemist , why? If you don't want to buy or sell chemicals - then by all means don't. But for me and lots of other people here, that's the most important thing we'll be selling probably. Chemicals are what's hard to get, and may require you to buy a Kg of the stuff when you only need 100 grams. Nobody complains because he was had to buy 10 distillation setups, when he only wanted 1. Sure, you could get a 10 pack of them, and get a better deal. So I'm sure people will do his too, and make a little profit by selling them individually to others on this forum. Chemicals are already being sold on this site anyway, and such a forum would make it easier, and faster.

The Volatile Chemist - 19-5-2014 at 09:20

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

The Volatile Chemist , why? If you don't want to buy or sell chemicals - then by all means don't. But for me and lots of other people here, that's the most important thing we'll be selling probably. Chemicals are what's hard to get, and may require you to buy a Kg of the stuff when you only need 100 grams. Nobody complains because he was had to buy 10 distillation setups, when he only wanted 1. Sure, you could get a 10 pack of them, and get a better deal. So I'm sure people will do his too, and make a little profit by selling them individually to others on this forum. Chemicals are already being sold on this site anyway, and such a forum would make it easier, and faster.

I was just worried about governmental stuff. Maybe I've read too many stories of arrested home chemists accused of ordering chemicals illegally. I was afraid it would affect the site itself. But I guess it wouldn't matter. Though I do think there should be at least two different sub-forums, one for hardware, one for chemicals, just to keep them separate. I guess I'm just not too trustworthy of my own government. I may buy chemicals from the site, but in America, there are so many shipping regulations I don't think it'd be too safe. What i was trying to say was that chemicals should be continued to be sold on this site, but where they have been sold, not under a new forum. This way we aren't drawing attention to the fact that chemicals are being sold onsite. Not that it's necessarily illegal, but it's better not to get attention.

This is just my opinion, I think it'd be fine to buy/sell chemicals, but if it were under a forum title in bold declaring chemical sales were taking place there, I wouldn't do it myself. I don't want to be on a list for buying chemicals that were un-necessarily labeled hazardous when I could have bought them under a hidden title (AKA under Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition) so that lists aren't compiled of our names.
Nathan

Bert - 19-5-2014 at 11:08

The site owner's liability for member activities is a key question from the legal standpoint. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the legal precedents or jurisdictional differences in such involved. If the liabilities can't be clarified, common sense says stay away. Ignorance is NEVER a good argument in court.

The amount of moderator time required to RUN the new section/sub forum is the key question from a practical point of view.

I DO understand (hands on experience!) adding this is going to require significant amounts of time if it's going to succeed- And absolutely will require additional moderators be taken on.

The old guard of moderators likely have too much on their plates already to add this time sink on now, between professional lives and other demands on their waking hours & attention (Personal time? Family life? What mean these strange words, outlander..)

So, where is the next generation of dedicated, knowledgeable sciencemadness.org moderators coming from... For gosh sake, they were desperate enough to ask ME, this is clearly a labor crunch!

The Volatile Chemist - 19-5-2014 at 13:22

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

The site owner's liability for member activities is a key question from the legal standpoint. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the legal precedents or jurisdictional differences in such involved. If the liabilities can't be clarified, common sense says stay away. Ignorance is NEVER a good argument in court.

The amount of moderator time required to RUN the new section/sub forum is the key question from a practical point of view.

I DO understand (hands on experience!) adding this is going to require significant amounts of time if it's going to succeed- And absolutely will require additional moderators be taken on.

The old guard of moderators likely have too much on their plates already to add this time sink on now, between professional lives and other demands on their waking hours & attention (Personal time? Family life? What mean these strange words, outlander..)

So, where is the next generation of dedicated, knowledgeable sciencemadness.org moderators coming from... For gosh sake, they were desperate enough to ask ME, this is clearly a labor crunch!

I'm not too knowledgeable, but I have a basically free summer. I could be a half-mod...?

I really have a lot of time off, I'm just not too educated. Thus, I wouldn't be able to mod for the actual forums, but I could tell if someone's cheating others or selling explosives.

[Edited on 5-19-2014 by The Volatile Chemist]

Texium - 19-5-2014 at 14:48

If we make this new section, we just need to make sure to have set rules and that people follow them. If someone tries to sell something that they shouldn't be, or asks for something that they shouldn't have, then that thread will get sent to detritus or deleted.

The Volatile Chemist - 19-5-2014 at 16:02

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

If we make this new section, we just need to make sure to have set rules and that people follow them. If someone tries to sell something that they shouldn't be, or asks for something that they shouldn't have, then that thread will get sent to detritus or deleted.

Exactly, but It'll still need more moderators, and maybe legal research.

Manifest - 21-5-2014 at 10:47

What legal research is needed? A simple disclaimer should suffice, 'Sciencemadness will not be held responsible for deals made by members"

The Volatile Chemist - 26-5-2014 at 14:31

Any more opinions? Or is this idea not going to work?

NexusDNA - 26-5-2014 at 15:15

There have been many clandestine chemistry sites out there which "weren't responsible for members activity", but still got shut down. This is very delicate, you see. I'd imagine that nobody here wants to see SciMad being turned into honey...

Making it a subforum with closed access will solve some but not all of the problems. One from United States could sell CaCl2, let's say. But red phosphorus and iodine? Moderators would have a painful job ascertaining each thread for each place in the world. Maybe we should write some restrictions straight away?

Nonetheless, I'm very keen on the idea! It would be fantastic for some members to get good quality glassware, equipment, etc., especially those who doesn't have easy access to basic stuff in their countries (me!).

[Edited on 26-5-2014 by NexusDNA]

The Volatile Chemist - 26-5-2014 at 17:56

I argued against it at first, but this forrum has a lot better of aa rep. than any old chemistry site. Still, it could have hazards. Where is the site based in?

The Volatile Chemist - 2-7-2014 at 07:32

Gonna bump this today. I think selling user-made chemicals would be interesting, as long as the seller understood purity issues, source, etc., and that only National Hazards and above (Pref. only 5 stars) are trustworthy.

prof_genius - 2-7-2014 at 08:16

I think trustworthiness would not be a large issue, the main issue would be analysing, I think amateur chemists could analyse reagents using methods according to "Chemical Reagents Their Purity and Tests" by E. Merck.

The Volatile Chemist - 3-7-2014 at 08:47

Quote: Originally posted by prof_genius

I think trustworthiness would not be a large issue, the main issue would be analysing, I think amateur chemists could analyse reagents using methods according to "Chemical Reagents Their Purity and Tests" by E. Merck.

Right. Merck has provided some good resources. I guess we haven't won over the mods and admin yet...

Chemosynthesis - 14-7-2014 at 01:21

I like the idea, but the practicality does raise some concerns for me. I know legal sale of items which can have media scrutiny (firearms in particular) have brought about negative publicity for some sites, and I doubt the ACS has as much lobbying clout.
I used to moderate quite a few decently large forums, and I know I had been adamant about not wanting to have classifieds sections due to scams/fraud/etc. The law enforcement officers I know who deal with those types of crimes tend to be very different from the ones I know who run crime labs or work drug enforcement, and have backgrounds in chemistry, and so I am not sure how positive that scrutiny would tend to be.
That said, I love this site, have benefited personally and intellectually from perusing it, and have even made valuable price-discounted purchases through it, so I don't see why I should stand in the way of others' abilities to glean the same and no less.

Manifest - 14-7-2014 at 11:53

I would also like to see a reputation section where users can vouch that they received a package from someone.

Brain&Force - 14-7-2014 at 15:05

On the "Where's George" forums there's a trade outcome thread for exchanged currency. That would be a simple idea to implement. Reputable sellers can get marks/ratings placed on the Sciencemadness Wiki.

Sciencemadness Marketplace

Brain&Force - 18-8-2014 at 10:23

The Sciencemadness Wiki has opened its new Marketplace section for anyone who wants to put up notices for items either wanted or for sale. The rules and policies are included on the page - they are similar to the ones Praxichys outlined on the first post. You need to have a confirmed Wikia account (making 10 edits in 4 days should do the trick) as the page is protected. Please let us know of any recommendations about policy or execution either in this thread or the wiki thread.

If you're looking for information about lab equipment vendors, check here instead.

TheChemiKid - 18-8-2014 at 10:38

This is a brilliant idea, I think it would help separate topics about acquiring chemicals from stores, from other members.

The Volatile Chemist - 20-8-2014 at 13:10

Great job! glad it exists now!

APO - 24-8-2014 at 19:15

Can you add something like a list of what's not allowed to be sold/advertised?

Brain&Force - 24-8-2014 at 19:37

Can others expand on that for me? Here's what I would personally say:

Anything illegal in your jurisdiction
Any explosives, primary or secondary
Any drugs/psychoactive substances
...

Zyklon-A - 24-8-2014 at 22:44

Do you mean any drugs, or any illegal drugs?

Brain&Force - 25-8-2014 at 11:35

I was thinking just illegal drugs, but prescription drugs is another important one.

Zyklon-A - 25-8-2014 at 11:40

Well, that's kind of redundant as prescription drugs are illegal without a prescription, and if you have a prescription, you wouldn't buy from here.

APO - 26-8-2014 at 18:33

I mean't like a narcotic, explosive, chemical weapon, or direct precursor that has no other chemical use, i.e. (pseudoephedrine, agent ql, or etc).

Brain&Force - 3-9-2014 at 12:25

And, of course, things that really have no use in amateur chemistry or element collecting. There's Craigslist for that.

The Volatile Chemist - 3-9-2014 at 12:40

What are your thoughts on selling rocks/minerals on there, and differentiating between Beryl Ore, granite, and useful things vs. mineral collector's items?

Brain&Force - 3-9-2014 at 13:55

Sure, that's understandable as well. It doesn't have to really be chemistry equipment, either: just general science equipment and reagents. Minerals are fine - but it would be good to note whether they're gem quality or not.

What do you think of selling astronomy equipment?

[Edited on 3.9.2014 by Brain&Force]

The Volatile Chemist - 3-9-2014 at 14:31

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

Sure, that's understandable as well. It doesn't have to really be chemistry equipment, either: just general science equipment and reagents. Minerals are fine - but it would be good to note whether they're gem quality or not.

What do you think of selling astronomy equipment?

[Edited on 3.9.2014 by Brain&Force]

B&F!!!! What're we going to do with you... Well, you could make a header for the 'science related -- to be monitored harshly'. And another header for minerals/ores.

Texium - 3-9-2014 at 15:59

I like the idea of having minerals on there. Experimenting with minerals is one of my favorite things to do, and I also have a small mineral collection of sorts.
Astronomy equipment would be cool too, as it seems like there are quite a few people on here interested in astronomy as well as chemistry, and it is Sciencemadness after all: it is not limited solely to chemistry.

careysub - 3-9-2014 at 20:57

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

I like the idea of having minerals on there. Experimenting with minerals is one of my favorite things to do, and I also have a small mineral collection of sorts.
Astronomy equipment would be cool too, as it seems like there are quite a few people on here interested in astronomy as well as chemistry, and it is Sciencemadness after all: it is not limited solely to chemistry.

I'm interested in minerals also.

For astronomy equipment I would recommend joining up on CloudyNights.com - it is the top astronomy forum site, and has a very active classified section. Best selection, best potential customer base.

APO - 4-9-2014 at 00:50

Minerals would be good.

The Volatile Chemist - 4-9-2014 at 16:06

Yea, Definitely excited for minerals! It'll be fun to get the samples I cant find at my local rock shop. And Cheaper, I'll feel fine experimenting with them. I guess I don't mind the astronomy stuff being there.

elementcollector1 - 4-9-2014 at 16:09

I would also be interested in minerals. The nearest decent rock shop for me is a few miles out...

The Volatile Chemist - 4-9-2014 at 16:23

My nearest rock shop is a pretty good distance away. Go there about once a year. They never seem to have beryl or tourmaline :/ (My two faves...)

Brain&Force - 4-9-2014 at 16:49

Quote: Originally posted by careysub

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

Love that site - can someone edit the Marketplace page to link to CN Classifieds? I won't be able to edit the wiki for at least a week.

Texium - 4-9-2014 at 19:18

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

My nearest rock shop is a pretty good distance away. Go there about once a year. They never seem to have beryl or tourmaline :/ (My two faves...)

Last time I went to a rock shop I bought some galena, fluorite, pyrite, chalcopyrite, and a chunk of mixed malachite/azurite.

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

Love that site - can someone edit the Marketplace page to link to CN Classifieds? I won't be able to edit the wiki for at least a week.

Sure, I'll do that

Tdep - 4-9-2014 at 20:32

Oh I have quite a few minerals!

They're lovely and all.... But they are just sitting there.... Maybe I'd consider selling them...

But oh god the postage costs

The Volatile Chemist - 5-9-2014 at 12:40

Yes, I have a very large collection. You're right, though, postage would be bad...
I have a good bit of apophylite, pretty stuff. What do you have, tdep?

Brain&Force - 5-9-2014 at 13:10

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

Yes, I have a very large collection. You're right, though, postage would be bad...
I have a good bit of apophylite, pretty stuff. What do you have, tdep?

Why not post a notice in the Marketplace?

I live in a place where minerology is a big thing - there are some big tourmaline mines where I live (there's also aquamarine and morganite, as well as the occasional goshenite). The fees for getting in aren't exactly nominal, but from what I've heard it's worth it.

[Edited on 5.9.2014 by Brain&Force]

Tdep - 6-9-2014 at 02:27

I always seem to derail threads... Oh well.

Here are few of my favourites... A have a nice sample of apophylite at the front there too, bought from the Natural History museum in Washington DC when I was there in a holiday a few years ago

The Volatile Chemist - 7-9-2014 at 14:14

Gorgeous!
I would B&F, but my parents are suspicious of anything bought/sold online, etc. No big deal, I'll be free of that in 3 years. (Not that I don't love my parents

)

goldenoranges - 7-9-2014 at 18:36

I didn't read every single reply, but just wanted to add to make sure that NOTHING is illegal to sell/buy, a chemical in one state might be legal in one but illegal in another, and I am sure the powers that be would jump all over that to shut down this website, just because of the nature of things that are discussed here. God forbid peasants get their hands on knowledge. I have seen this happen before, not on forums but at gun shows. An ATF agent will go to a seller, and go, Hey, I really want to buy that rifle, but I don't have the money now! Could we meet after the show so I can buy it? So they meet after the show, and the seller forgets to do a background check on him (Some states its mandatory for private sales as well) And bam arrested on a felony charge. I could see something similar happening here, just a word to the wise.

A way you might be able to get around this is make this 'subforum' just link to a different domain that looks the same as this website, but is technically different so if the shit does hit the fan, the main forums won't get taken down.

Edit: But that is mainly about chemicals. I would like to see some glassware and things of that nature here, maybe for cheaper than you could buy them at a store.

[Edited on 8-9-2014 by goldenoranges]

Texium - 7-9-2014 at 19:10

Quote: Originally posted by goldenoranges

A way you might be able to get around this is make this 'subforum' just link to a different domain that looks the same as this website, but is technically different so if the shit does hit the fan, the main forums won't get taken down.

Well, it already is. The marketplace is on the wiki, which is a Wikia domain, and therefore a completely different website.

goldenoranges - 7-9-2014 at 21:01

Oh Ok! I have never been to the wiki, I will have to check it out.

The Volatile Chemist - 8-9-2014 at 12:06

Quote: Originally posted by goldenoranges

Oh Ok! I have never been to the wiki, I will have to check it out.

Indeed, do! It needs lots of contribution...

Praxichys - 13-11-2015 at 10:37

This idea has become so popular that I decided to jump for it. I have created a free trading post for chemicals and glassware for the amateur community. Feel free to help us tweak it and get it operational:

www.synthsource.org

This is meant in no way to undermine what we do here at ScienceMadness or to shift discussion elsewhere. In fact, there will be no area for chemical discussion on the site. It is merely a "trading post."

Goals include:

- The ability to post classified ads for chemicals and apparatus
- The ability to rate sellers to establish reliability and legitimacy
- The ability for anyone to visit the site and purchase cheap chemicals for a hobby/educational laboratory
- To be a not-for-profit website

This will help budding amateurs not only acquire chemicals cheaply but also sell small amounts of them to earn spending money to enlarge their labs and further their hobby.

This also has the potential to be ad-free if we can get companies like Elemental to donate to the board in exchange for sticky advertisements in the classifieds section. No money will change hands though, since proboards allows users to "gift" ad-free money to the board at will.

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by Praxichys]

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by Praxichys]

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by Praxichys]

The Volatile Chemist - 15-11-2015 at 14:05

Very nice! Wasn't little-ghost working on something like this, though?
Looked it over. Not bad at all! Nice work. I'd love to use this in a year or so.

[Edited on 11-15-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]

elementcollector1 - 15-11-2015 at 17:23

Honestly, I wouldn't mind selling off my mineral collection. I have lots of unusual stuff just taking up space.

j_sum1 - 15-11-2015 at 17:38

Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1

Honestly, I wouldn't mind selling off my mineral collection. I have lots of unusual stuff just taking up space.

Take some pix and post them. I might be interested in some.
If you have any antozonite, U2U me.

The Volatile Chemist - 17-11-2015 at 19:28

Or berl or tourmaline (Besides schorl).
Looks fancy. Good work. One of the best project start-ups I've seen, mine were always crap