Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Fumes

Fumes

The Volatile Chemist - 18-4-2014 at 08:44

I accidentally sniffed some fuming sulfuric acid about a day ago. I know it's a big deal, but are the effects delayed more than 24 hours?

Chemosynthesis - 18-4-2014 at 08:56

Pulmonary edema can take up to 72 hours to manifest, though this is highly unlikely after 48 hours.

The Volatile Chemist - 18-4-2014 at 08:57

Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis

Pulmonary edema can take up to 72 hours to manifest, though this is highly unlikely after 48 hours.

How much do you need to take in for such a condition to happen?

Mailinmypocket - 18-4-2014 at 08:57

If you "sniffed" oleum that is not a good thing. I would expect pretty immediate effects though, since sulfur trioxide attacks organic materials instantly. Did your nose bleed? Was it painful? How did you manage to sniff it anyways?

FYI- you already posted this question in the "bad days in the lab" thread. No need to start a whole new thread about accidental oleum sniffage.

The Volatile Chemist - 18-4-2014 at 09:00

Quote: Originally posted by Mailinmypocket

If you "sniffed" oleum that is not a good thing. I would expect pretty immediate effects though, since sulfur trioxide attacks organic materials instantly. Did your nose bleed? Was it painful? How did you manage to sniff it anyways?

FYI- you already posted this question in the "bad days in the lab" thread. No need to start a whole new thread about accidental oleum sniffage.

No, no nose bleed, it was a very small amount. The 'pain' wasn't very strong at all, just suprising, and I probably blew a lot of it back out my nose, though my first reaction of smelling it was what caused the problem. I'd rather not chat on how.

Bert - 18-4-2014 at 10:53

You REALLY need to be careful with acid fumes, SO3, NOx and such.

Unprepared amateurs HAVE DIED. Plenty of industrial workers have too.

In particular: A number of amateurs trying to make picric acid starting from Aspirin have managed to kill themselves. Both while boiling down Sulfuric acid and while attempting nitrations.

IF YOU DONT FULLY UNDERSTAND THIS AND ARRANGE FOR PROPER AIR HANDLING IN ADVANCE, DONT EVEN HANDLE THESE MATERIALS!

The Volatile Chemist - 18-4-2014 at 11:02

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

You REALLY need to be careful with acid fumes, SO3, NOx and such.

Unprepared amateurs HAVE DIED. Plenty of industrial workers have too.

In particular: A number of amateurs trying to make picric acid starting from Aspirin have managed to kill themselves. Both while boiling down Sulfuric acid and while attempting nitrations.

IF YOU DONT FULLY UNDERSTAND THIS AND ARRANGE FOR PROPER AIR HANDLING IN ADVANCE, DONT EVEN HANDLE THESE MATERIALS!

OK. I now realize my mistakes. I won't again try to smell a sulfur compound solution. The problematic chemical I used was Sodium Bisulfate. Thanks, I'll be a lot more careful from now on. It was a purposely small smell, but I guess fumes shouldn't be smelt at all, even If I think they're CO₂.

WGTR - 18-4-2014 at 11:12

I'm not a doctor, as an FYI, and this is just my opinion.

This stuff reacts fast with moisture. If you sniffed a small amount through your nose, it probably did not make it into your
lungs. If you breathed it through your mouth, that could be different. Your lungs would probably let you know, and you'd
probably have a cough, at least for a few minutes. After the initial damage, quite a bit of time can pass before you
unexpectedly drown in your own body fluids. If it did make it into your chest, I would highly recommend going to the doctor.

I opened up a container for lithium battery disposal once, and got a lung full of what was probably thionyl chloride. I had a
persistent cough for half an hour. They sent me in for chest x-rays, but everything was fine. There was no observable
damage.

Have fun, and be careful.

smaerd - 18-4-2014 at 11:16

I guess while we're on the topic of fumes. It's always a good idea to scrub solutions that put off gass even if it's crude such as the inverted funnel trick. Also report accidents and stuff to atleast someone you know. Maybe your wife or something, such as "Dang I got a really bad lungful of ____ today." Of course, if symptoms that are not psychosomatic, become present due to exposure, seek treatment asap. No point in waiting around trying to be 'tough'. There is chemophobia, but on the other end of the spectrum ignorance/arrogance. Had a professor from another country tell us about how she had lost two colleagues in graduate school.

The Volatile Chemist - 18-4-2014 at 11:52

Quote: Originally posted by smaerd

I guess while we're on the topic of fumes. It's always a good idea to scrub solutions that put off gass even if it's crude such as the inverted funnel trick. Also report accidents and stuff to atleast someone you know. Maybe your wife or something, such as "Dang I got a really bad lungful of ____ today." Of course, if symptoms that are not psychosomatic, become present due to exposure, seek treatment asap. No point in waiting around trying to be 'tough'. There is chemophobia, but on the other end of the spectrum ignorance/arrogance. Had a professor from another country tell us about how she had lost two colleagues in graduate school.

Yea, I'm gonna go with telling my parents

as I'm 14 and don't exactly have a wife...

Zyklon-A - 18-4-2014 at 12:36

I was once doing an experiment with chlorine, the gas generator popped a stopper. I got a lungful if that terrible smell (not the first time, nor the last), but I couldn't leave the reaction, as it was too important. Holding my breath some of the time, and running outside for breaths when needed, soon everything was cleaned up. 20 minutes later I hurled - about 5 times I think. Ruined the whole day, my lungs and throat where soar, for several days...
And that's just chlorine , which is only mildly toxic.

thesmug - 18-4-2014 at 12:43

Quote: Originally posted by Bert

boiling down Sulfuric acid

Is this also an issue when doing Fischer esterifications?

The Volatile Chemist - 18-4-2014 at 12:47

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

I was once doing an experiment with chlorine, the gas generator popped a stopper. I got a lungful if that terrible smell (not the first time, nor the last), but I couldn't leave the reaction, as it was too important. Holding my breath some of the time, and running outside for breaths when needed, soon everything was cleaned up. 20 minutes later I hurled - about 5 times I think. Ruined the whole day, my lungs and throat where soar, for several days...
And that's just chlorine , which is only mildly toxic.

It's not like I got a lungful... As a matter of fact, it's improbable that any got in my lungs at all, I just got a burning sensation in my nose, I shot it back out right away.

hyfalcon - 18-4-2014 at 15:01

I've done it outside of a fume hood, BUT if it's done inside, I've got enough cross ventilation to make sure that ALL fumes are going outside. This usually has to be done on a fairly windy day with the garage door at least half way open and the man door cracked for a good differential.

woelen - 19-4-2014 at 08:48

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

Chlorine is not mildly toxic, it is very toxic. Fortunately, it has very good warning properties and even at low concentrations it is very hard to tolerate the presence of chlorine in the air you breathe. So, you did not inhale a lung full of the gas, you just inhaled a tiny amount, which already was very very discomforting to you. If you really inhaled a long full of the gas, then you would not have posted this message

Chemosynthesis - 19-4-2014 at 13:51

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

How much do you need to take in for such a condition to happen?

I'm not sure. It depends on a lot of factors, such as humidity, concentration, depth of breath. Toxicity can have conditions as variable as xenobiotic absorption. The variables to very useful modeling/interpolatively predictive equations can change a bit.

The Volatile Chemist - 19-4-2014 at 18:27

Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

How much do you need to take in for such a condition to happen?

well, I'm not dead yet, don't have that pulminary thing, and it's been more than 48 hours, so it just taught me a lesson, not too much pain. Thanks!
Nathan

Zyklon-A - 19-4-2014 at 18:41

Quote:

Originally posted by woelen
So, you did not inhale a lung full of the gas, you just inhaled a tiny amount.

Yeah, I got a lung-full of a small concentration of chlorine-air mixture. It was a much higher concentration than my typical "dose." (A phrase that shouldn't even exist in the context of chlorine.)

cyanureeves - 20-4-2014 at 11:37

i not only inhaled sulfuric fumes but also breathed them in and coughed like crazy when making nitric with a glass retort.damn fumes stuck to the trees,leaves,branches,trash can,dog house.i mean fumes everywhere,it was a cold wet winter day and had no idea that the fumes were gonna seek moisture.my backyard steamed like iceland but more than sulfuric fumes i fear the red nitric headache causing fumes.stay safe volatile chemist!

The Volatile Chemist - 21-4-2014 at 08:12

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

Quote:

Originally posted by woelen
So, you did not inhale a lung full of the gas, you just inhaled a tiny amount.

Yeah, I got a lung-full of a small concentration of chlorine-air mixture. It was a much higher concentration than my typical "dose." (A phrase that shouldn't even exist in the context of chlorine.)

What's your typical way of making chlorine? Or were you trying?