Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Problems in producing nitrocellulose

sarinox - 9-3-2014 at 23:22

I have tried so many methods (methods I found on the Internet!) to make Nitrocellulose however , these experiences were not successful does anyone know a guaranteed way to make NC???

Dornier 335A - 10-3-2014 at 00:09

Could you describe which processes you have attempted? That would make it a lot easier for us to tell what you are doing wrong.

TheChemiKid - 10-3-2014 at 07:07

I have also had problems with the synthesis of nitrocellulose. I added the stoichiometric amounts of potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid to cotton balls. No matter what I do, they disintegrate instantly. When I tried with a cotton shirt, it became mushy and after sitting for 30 minutes, I took out the pieces, and when I washed them, they completely fell apart. I let the scraps that I could salvage dry. After they dried, I tested flammability. The product charred, but didn't burn.
What happened?

ecos - 10-3-2014 at 07:08

did you try this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ5q9G1lHUc

TheChemiKid - 10-3-2014 at 07:12

Yes. As well as the NightHawkInLight procedure.

packetforger - 10-3-2014 at 08:48

Unless I am mistaken, you need a fair excess of the acids to perform the NC synth reliably (as in, get a decent product). Breaking the cotton up into small pieces also helps a lot, as does lots of stirring and good temperature control.

It has been about 4 years since I did this though, so my memories/opinion may well be a bit iffy (heck, I have trouble remembering last week with good clarity!), but temperature control and leaving it to react for long enough, along with using a decent excess of acid, seemed to be important factors.

I remember an old college friend of mine gave it a shot before to try make flash paper and forgot to bother with temp control, pretty much immediate runaway reaction in his bedroom. Avoiding the evolution of NOx gases seemed to be a constant in ensuring you got a decent quality product, as was adequate washing, neutralization and drying afterwards (chopping up the wet product in bicarb solution and then good amount of washing with water, followed by allowing to dry for a few days out of direct sunlight with decent airflow worked pretty well after "squeezing" most of the moisture out of it).

ecos - 10-3-2014 at 10:53

I am sorry but I have a question here.

if we used cellulose instead of nitrocellulose with NG, would that affect the quality ? if yes , how much would it affect it?

Dornier 335A - 10-3-2014 at 11:24

Cellulose isn't soluble in NG, so you wouldn't get a gel.

ecos - 10-3-2014 at 11:30

from the steps I have , I mix Cellulose with hot acetone then combine this mixture with NG !

I saw a video for this and they said it works !

ecos - 10-3-2014 at 11:57

this might help : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2zfw46vFYs

but it is almost the same steps with more explanation !

roXefeller - 10-3-2014 at 12:00

That sounds like standard nitrocellulose/nitroglycerin gel. This is why you need a solid understanding of things. Most people 'familiar in the art' would read canned recipes like that and understand there was probably an error of omission. You are lacking that background and take everything as gospel truth, which can either be benign or disastrous, hence our encouragement to read more before proceeding. Hennig Brand just had something happen similar on the DDNP thread where he was stating a diameter with a decimal error. Nobody bothered to correct it initially because we understood the error and didn't find it edifying to the conversation to be pedantic. You on the other had, would have tried to set off picric acid at 0.76mm and wondered why yellow clouds appear, instead of asking how such an insensitive could have the miniscule critical diameter.

While in some jurisdictions liability could be found against the one publishing information for your harm, common sense dictates that if it is your hands, lungs, torso, head etc in harms way, you personally have the burden to get it right and read between the lines of "mix Cellulose with hot acetone then combine this mixture with NG".

As far as diagnosing the OP I have one comment. Cotton is destroyed by sulfuric acid in a similar way as you have described (as far as I have seen personally). Is it possible that the nitrate salt hasn't completely reacted to HNO3 before you proceed with the reaction?

sarinox - 11-3-2014 at 08:08

I used cotton wool and added it to a mixture of H2SO4/HNO3 with concentrations of 98% & 68% respectively and ratio of 7/3 by volume and I tried different soaking times but the result was not satisfying I guess some Nitrocellulose might have formed because the resulted substance (after neutralization and washing steps ) was soluble in acetone yet it appeared the substance don't burn like cellulose nitrate!!!

anyone know the promising method of making NC ???

sarinox - 11-3-2014 at 08:09

Quote: Originally posted by ecos  
did you try this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ5q9G1lHUc


yes I did

sarinox - 11-3-2014 at 08:12

Quote: Originally posted by ecos  
this might help : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2zfw46vFYs

but it is almost the same steps with more explanation !




I also used this method but again It didn't worked!!!

For sarinox and ecos !

DetaDude - 20-3-2014 at 07:22

If you guys want to run with the big boy's, you had better do some reading and research on this forum, before asking kewl questions !

If you're serious about playing with energetic materials, (i.e. explosives) then you had better start by stocking up on some good high percentage HNO3 .............say about ninety percent plus purity. For most labs the wimpy 70% stuff won't hack it.

Oh yes read the safety section FIRST !