Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Pictures of Element collections

Pictures of Element collections

Zyklon-A - 18-2-2014 at 13:04

How about a thread for pictures of element collections?
I would like to see what everyone's collection look like. There aren't a lot of pictures that I've seen, and since it seems like a lot of people here have one, why not show them? After all that's what they are for right?

I would start, but mine is so pathetically small so far... I'll post it after some of the more complete collections.
Here's a video of Mrhomescientist's awesome collection.

woelen - 18-2-2014 at 13:22

This is my collection of the elements: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/compounds/index2....

I have most of them, just a few remain to be collected.

I now also have samples of Pt and a few better samples of other elements. These pictures will be added soon.

elementcollector1 - 18-2-2014 at 14:22

My current element collection:

Whole thing. Note the lack of gases of any kind, save for some store-bought ampoules of Ne and Ar.

Li, Be, B, and C.

Ne, Na, Mg, Al, Si, and S.

Ar, K, Ca, Ti, and Cr. Mn was supposed to be in this picture, but I took it wrong.

Ni, Cu, Zn, and Ga.

Br, Sr, and Zr.

Pd.

In, Sb, and I.

Hf (newest addition!).

Pt, Au, and Hg. (shiiiiny....)

Lastly, Pb and Bi.

Some individual shots:

Nb and Mo. Can't fit these into ampoules just yet, and it took prolonged hammering to get Nb to its current state.

Lithium, finally in its own ampoule. Tried melting some of this stuff earlier today - no dice.

A comparison of my three alkali metals.

I'm not very good at photography, unfortunately - I bet kristofagyok could make even these look amazing. Oh well.

[Edited on 2-19-2014 by elementcollector1]

Zyklon-A - 19-2-2014 at 06:27

Looks a lot better than mine... I guess I could start collecting and keeping some of the gasses (H₂, He, N₂,O₂ Cl₂ and Ar), even though I can't amplule them. That would bump my collection to 19, which isn't bad.

[EDIT] I'll start with hydrogen, oxygen, and chlorine today because they will be the easiest. Nitrogen, I can just ask for a sample at a tire refill place, maybe the same with argon, helium from a balloon...

[Edited on 19-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

woelen - 19-2-2014 at 07:21

Samples of colorless gases are not interesting at all. You could as well ampoule some air, nobody will ever notice the difference. For that reason, I purchased the spectrum tubes which contain the colorless gases at low pressure and allow gas discharge spectra to be made. In that way you can distinguish.

Some companies also sell simple ampoules with gasses at low pressure. These also can be distinguished from each other, by turning a few rounds of wire around them and applying a high frequency high voltage on the wire. Due to capacitive effects, a small alternating current flows through the gas and this causes color effects which are different for different gases.

http://www.smart-elements.com/?arg=detail&element=Ar&...

Unfortunately these nice samples are quite expensive.

Zyklon-A - 19-2-2014 at 08:29

I know they aren't interesting, which is why I haven't bothered to waist any containers with them. But I haven't really made any additions to my collection recently, so I should start building it up some more... Chlorine at least has some color so I'll definitely do that today, I've made it a bunch of times for experiments, but never to store it (except to test a container once). I know I'll get some spectrum tubes which contain the colorless gases at some point, but I'm not there yet.

[Edited on 19-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

MrHomeScientist - 19-2-2014 at 10:58

Thanks for the bump on my collection! I've added a lot of new samples since that video. I only have 16 left to acquire! I've been meaning to make another video showcasing each one individually but I'm never happy with the lighting. Tough to get rid of the glare on those glass vials. Someone recommended a polarizing filter, which I'd like to try but I need to buy one.

As for the colorless gases, I agree they can be boring. With mine, I always try to have an interesting story behind them or at least an interesting container. For neon and krypton, I have little bulbs for indicator lights and flashlights. Argon was collected by putting an incandescent lightbulb in a bag, filling it with water, and breaking the bulb inside the bag inside a larger bucket of water. I could then carefully collect the gas in the bag. (Lightbulbs are a surprisingly rich source of elements!) Nitrogen is in a standard vial, but I filled it by dipping it in liquid nitrogen and allowing it to boil off before capping, to displace the air. I tell people that it looks like nothing is in there, but you'll just have to believe me when I relate the story

EC1: Your K and Na look like really nice blobs. Did you make them yourself?

[Edited on 2-19-2014 by MrHomeScientist]

Zyklon-A - 19-2-2014 at 12:45

You're welcome, Are you sure that incandescent light bulbs are pure argon? I thought they are a mixture of nitrogen and argon under reduced pressure.

MrHomeScientist - 19-2-2014 at 13:03

I'd read that light bulb filler gas is either nitrogen or argon at low pressure, but I've never been able to confirm that with the bulb manufacturers. I suppose I don't really know for sure what gas it is. I wonder if the wire wrapping technique woelen mentioned would work on a light bulb? Then you could distinguish by the color of the glow. Or see if lithium blackens under bulb gas, indicating reaction with nitrogen.

Zyklon-A - 19-2-2014 at 13:10

Or calcium would also work, as it reacts with nitrogen too.
on wiki it says The bulb is filled with an inert gas such as argon (93%) and nitrogen (7%).

[Edited on 19-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

thebean - 19-2-2014 at 15:48

@woelen: I looked at your element collection and saw that your chromium was produced through electrolysis. Out of curiosity do you have a procedure that you could share? I couldn't seem to find anything on it here on the forum and Google yielded very little.

@MrHomeScientist: Light bulb gases tend to be either xenon or argon and sometimes nitrogen, when you get a halogen bulb you get very small quantities of iodine or bromine added.

Zyklon-A - 19-2-2014 at 16:25

Ok, so here is my collection:

Lithium, Carbon, Magnesium

Aluminum, Iron, Copper

Zinc, Iodine, Gold, Lead.

Can somebody please delete the last image, it replaced my lead, and I can't delete it, it just comes back.

[Edited on 20-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

[Edited on 20-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

sargent1015 - 19-2-2014 at 16:54

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

This is my collection of the elements: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/compounds/index2....

Just absolutely amazing to see all those elements, I love looking at these collections! Keep up the wonderful work everyone!

Zyklon-A - 19-2-2014 at 17:28

I also decided to post a picture of chlorine, It's not a very good sample, it still has water in it, may not be 100% pure, oh well. Also, I forgot sulfur:

[EDIT] I tried to post it in my other reply, but I guess I had already posted to many pictures.
If you're wondering about cadmium, which I have isolated most recently, I had a use for it (which the reason I made it) and it's already used up. I should have taken a picture

[Edited on 20-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

[Edited on 20-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

alexleyenda - 19-2-2014 at 17:34

I must say Woelen's collection is chemist porn :p I discovered what many elements you never hear about looked like! By the way your sample of chlorine looks great anyways zyklonb, the yellowish color is quite as intense as it can be. Of course when you'll have time making a sample without water would be a good idea however.

elementcollector1 - 19-2-2014 at 20:54

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist

EC1: Your K and Na look like really nice blobs. Did you make them yourself?

[Edited on 2-19-2014 by MrHomeScientist]

Sodium: Nope, bought. Of course, it was in one of those hexagonal-prism foil packs from United Nuclear, so I pressed a few slices into a wiry sort of shape, slitted them down through the ampoule neck until it was full, and then melted them inside the ampoule under kerosene.

Potassium: Same thing, except this was homemade! Took a couple tries, though - my ampoules' necks kept breaking due to increasingly ridiculous circumstances. This was sealed under mineral oil.

The problem with sealing ampoules full of hydrocarbon solvents is twofold and annoying. First, if the flame touches any residue of solvent (say, on the walls, even) it leaves a black carbon residue that makes the ampoule walls brittle and significantly harder to seal (this is evident in my ampoules of calcium, potassium and lithium). Second, it occasionally catches on fire if it's particularly volatile - though it seems to be easy to blow out.

Looking at my ampoules of strontium and calcium, and then at my ampoules of sodium and potassium, it's easy to see which group lithium deludes itself into acting like.

16 left! Which are they?

nezza - 20-2-2014 at 00:56

Hi Here are some pictures of my favourite elements in my collection.

Zyklon-A - 20-2-2014 at 05:44

Cesium and Bromine look amazing! Is that white phosphorus, to the right of the red?
I think that iodine is my favorite out of mine, the crystals look so much better in real life. Lithium is my most irreplaceable, although the gold is worth more.

[Edited on 20-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

MrHomeScientist - 20-2-2014 at 07:32

Lots of really nice samples. Great thread idea! I'll have to take pictures of all of mine and make a blog post about them. Might be too many photos to post them all here

Zylkonb: I've never seen aluminum like that. It reminds me of the "sponge" of hairlike crystals I get from doing the silver tree demo (silver nitrate + copper wire). I also laughed at the big CAUTION label on the copper wire.

elementcollector1: Sounds like a pretty hairy process to get those things into ampoules! I remember that Zan Divine had a thread about ampouling alkali metals that had some pretty creative solutions. For my collection, the elements I have yet to collect are K, Ca, As, Rb, Nb, Pd, Sb, La, Ce, Nd, Pm, Ho, Tm, Lu, Hf, and Ir. Technically I'm still missing F and Am, but I have representative compounds for each and that's probably the best I'll be able to do (Teflon for F and an AmO₂ smoke detector button). I also have made K but haven't been able to refine it to presentation quality worthy of the shelf quite yet. I use uranium ore to represent Po - Pa, because of the decay chain of U, but I do still need U and Th metals. Finally, I just realized Pm is probably uncollectable due to its radioactivity. So depending on how you look at it, I might have a couple more than 16 left

nezza: That cesium is gorgeous. What else is in the vial with your bromine? Something to absorb vapors?

Mailinmypocket - 20-2-2014 at 08:28

In case anyone likes, for the cost of postage, I don't mind donating a couple pieces of Sb to those seeking samples. The Sb I have can be seen in this thread(you may need to scroll down)

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=26378

Likewise for representative F compounds I don't mind donating samples of calcium fluoride, as I have quite a bit.

Zyklon-A - 20-2-2014 at 08:41

I could also give a some samples (5-10g) freely of the Al from the picture, it's pyro grade bright flake Al ~27 micron treated with anti dust powder. (From Skylighter.)
I would love some Antimony, Mailinmypocket. I would rather trade something than pay for postage, it just seems a lot easier.
[EDIT] CAUTION contains, Zinc May cause blindness, WARNING Iron filings, May be attracted to magnetic source, CAUTION Copper wire, May cause electrical shock if connected to HV source.

...It was from my old chemistry set that I got when I was like 5 or 6.

I got some iron that was melted in a thermite. Here it is:

[Edited on 20-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

nezza - 23-2-2014 at 04:24

Zyklonb. Yes that is white phosphorus next to the red.

MrHomeScientist. That is just some tissue to pad the bottom of the universal.

One more picture, not an element, but recently I have had a go at making some NaK and ampouling it under argon. This is my first attempt. There is some oil in the tube as well which spoils the appearance a bit.

Zyklon-A - 23-2-2014 at 11:33

Cool... I'm too scared to make NaK, at least with the limited apparatus and equipment that I have.

BobD1001 - 23-2-2014 at 12:28

Mailinmypocket I would love to get a small sample of Sb if you are offering. Its hard to find any amount in small quantity online for a reasonable price, so I've been holding off on buying it.

In the spirit of the thread here is a picture of my element collection:

Click here for a larger view.

Mailinmypocket - 23-2-2014 at 12:37

Just a note for those looking for antimony samples, since I have received a few requests. If you would like some please PM me as I don't always remember to check back on threads and may forget about it.

Zephyr - 23-2-2014 at 12:49

Here is my element collection:

I got my antimony by digesting antimony/tin solder in HCl and utilizing antimony's resistance to acid.
My next editions will be americium, uranium and potassium.
I have isolated many other elements, including bromine, chlorine, and oxygen but my ampoules are to big to fit in the 1"x1 1/2" cells.

Zyklon-A - 25-2-2014 at 18:01

Very nice BobD1001 and Pinkhippo11 , I haven't gone back to this thread in a while, so I didn't see those pictures until now....
I will be starting to build my periodic table frame today or tomorrow, hopefully it will be complete within a week or so.
I isolated some more Cadmium (the tiniest amount ever), and I bought a nice light bulb with a really thick Tungsten filament (for a projector.)

You can see the thick W (Tungsten) wire better, if you see the large image, so click it!

[Edited on 26-2-2014 by Zyklonb]

Maya - 26-2-2014 at 11:40

Maybe I can get around to posting pics eventually.
Here is a schematic of my actual Elemental State Element collection (except for the bottom row).
Some I have many pounds of, others only a few grams, ALL are at least 99.5% in a few cases, but 99.99++ in the majority. Alfa Aesar, SA etc.

I still have gaps.
If anybody wants to barter or sell to fill these gaps, let me know.

H
Li Be B C N O F Ne
Na Mg Al Si S Cl Ar
K Ca Ti V Cr Mn Fe Co Ni Cu Zn Ga Ge As Se Br Kr
Rb Sr Zr Nb Mo Ru Rh Pd Ag Cd In Sn Sb Te I Xe
Ba Hf W Re Os Ir Pt Au Hg Tl Pb Bi

Tb Dy Lu
Th U

[Edited on 26-2-2014 by Maya]

Zyklon-A - 26-2-2014 at 11:43

Wow! You have a lot. How did you get Fluorine?

Maya - 26-2-2014 at 12:07

Th U and F are the only salts

Zyklon-A - 6-3-2014 at 17:59

Just received tin and antimony from Mailinmypocket. Like He said:

Quote:

So shiny!

Texium - 8-3-2014 at 19:36

Here's my collection so far. It's very incomplete. I know that the hydrogen should be ampouled, and is probably not going to stay in that vial. That's temporary. The brown vial contains iodine, and the gold colored cylinder contains argon. The element I have which I am most proud of is my indium, which my chemistry teacher gave me. She also had tellurium and antimony but she wouldn't give me those! (not surprisingly) Also, the boron is actually boric oxide as a placeholder until I can obtain the elemental boron from it.

[Edited on 3-9-2014 by zts16]

Texium - 8-3-2014 at 19:39

Oh, and this is a close up of some sulfur that I melted down and poured into water, making a ton of little spheres.

Zyklon-A - 9-3-2014 at 18:57

Very nice, is that rubber sulfur (melted >300°C) or just melted and poured in water.

Texium - 9-3-2014 at 19:14

When I melted it, I poured some into water to make the balls pictured, and then heated up the remainder to a higher temperature and let it cool to make rubber sulfur. It's really interesting but only stays rubbery for a few minutes before resuming its normal hard form.

Zyklon-A - 9-3-2014 at 19:27

Really? I thought it was a few days...

Texium - 9-3-2014 at 20:26

From the book Chemical Demonstrations, Volume 1: "After it is removed from the water, the polymeric sulfur will revert to its brittle rhombic form, but the time for the change varies from a few minutes to several hours."
Mine unfortunately only lasted a few minutes.

Zyklon-A - 10-3-2014 at 13:31

Cool, I will make some polymeric sulfur today and see how long it lasts.

Zyklon-A - 10-3-2014 at 16:39

Now the cooled sulfur is stuck in a test tube, how can I get it out? I can't dissolve sulfur.

Texium - 10-3-2014 at 16:54

I guess you could re-melt it if you're careful.
You could also try using an organic solvent, it's soluble in some.

bismuthate - 10-3-2014 at 17:19

Hot NaOH dissolves sulphur. Althogh it isn't exactly fast.

Zyklon-A - 10-3-2014 at 17:29

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

I guess you could re-melt it if you're careful.
You could also try using an organic solvent, it's soluble in some.

I don't have any solvents that will dissolve sulfur.

Quote: Originally posted by bismuthate

Hot NaOH dissolves sulphur. Althogh it isn't exactly fast.

Good idea, except hot NaOH also dissolves glass.

bismuthate - 10-3-2014 at 18:03

True but it dissolves sulfur much faster.
I'm not sure but conc. H2O2 may work. Or nitric acid if you'll go to the trouble..

[Edited on 11-3-2014 by bismuthate]

Texium - 10-3-2014 at 21:14

Re-melting…?
Or is it too thinly spread across the test tube for that to be an effective means?

Zyklon-A - 10-3-2014 at 21:38

No, remelting it won't help, I'm just cracking and chipping it a way.

Brain&Force - 14-6-2014 at 21:27

Identify the elements.

<a href="http://imgur.com/h2NVOVQ"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/h2NVOVQ.jpg" title="Can you find the hidden nitrogen sample?" width=800 /></a>

Not the biggest collection, but oh well. I have some gallium, but I still can't find it.

[Edited on 15.6.2014 by Brain&Force]

elementcollector1 - 14-6-2014 at 21:40

From left to right: Au, Cu, ???, Zn?, Ga?, Si, Bi

Zyklonb: Sublime it to the end of the test tube? You'll probably lose some yield to oxides...

Brain&Force - 14-6-2014 at 21:53

You got all of them right except the ??? and Ga. (There is no gallium here)

Au was a graduation gift.
Cu was supposed to go out in the trash but I decided to keep it.
Zn is just a filed down penny.
Si was found somewhere, can't remember where.
Bi was bought at the Smithsonian. It was broken into several small pieces, this is by far the largest.

One of the remaining elements is quite common, the other quite expensive.

Zyklon-A - 14-6-2014 at 22:17

Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1

Zyklonb: Sublime it to the end of the test tube? You'll probably lose some yield to oxides...

I got it out a while ago, acetone and NaOH solution works well for dissolving sulfur. I just didn't know about that at the time.
Brain&Force, gold and bismuth look pretty cool. I haven't spent much time on my element collection in a while, but I really should get some Bi soon.

[Edited on 15-6-2014 by Zyklonb]

veganalchemist - 15-6-2014 at 13:42

Hope everyone likes my element collection.

Having an Element party next month.

Texium - 15-6-2014 at 13:54

Quote: Originally posted by veganalchemist

Hope everyone likes my element collection.

Having an Element party next month.

That is beautiful!

Zephyr - 15-6-2014 at 17:41

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

One of the remaining elements is quite common, the other quite expensive.

Are the remaining two iron and osmium?

Brain&Force - 15-6-2014 at 20:23

Nope and nope. I really should get iron though - it's not too hard.

Texium - 16-6-2014 at 04:08

Aluminum for the shiny one

Brain&Force - 24-6-2014 at 10:12

The shiny one is magnesium from a pencil sharpener. The dark one is terbium.

Texium - 24-6-2014 at 12:13

Damnit, one element off!

Edit: Should've guessed terbium for that other one, considering how much time you spend on it!

[Edited on 6-24-2014 by zts16]

careysub - 6-8-2014 at 11:49

How To Add Some of Those Actinides to Your Element Collection:

Except for uranium and thorium, which have such long half lives that they are not rare on Earth, and not very dangerous all of the others are only available (and for the most part only reasonably safe) in tiny amounts.

This presents a problem with exhibition - you either deposit a microscopic amount on a glass slide and exhibit with a microscope, or you mix it with a phosphor and display the glowing mixture. I suggest that the latter makes a better presentation, and is easier to arrange. (To the argument that you can't really see it then, I respond that except for chlorine you can't see any of the gases either).

For radium, watch dial parts are available on eBay so you get radium already ready for display.

Americium (the only transuranic in the consumer marketplace) can be worked up from smoke detectors to give the same effect.

A smoke detector contains 1 microcurie of Am; a typical phosphor mixture used in clock dials was something like 30 microcuries per gram of phosphor (zinc sulfide traditionally) though a wide range of activities was used. The range of average total activity present in wrist watches was 0.04 to 0.4 microcuries, with a high of 1.4 microcuries (probably a military aviator watch) so there is plenty of kick in a smoke detector to produce a nice glow.

Combining the Am with ZnS will require dissolving the source in aqua regia (they made it hard to get out on purpose). I haven't worked out all the chemical steps yet, but your goal will be to precipiate it with a carrier that is then combined with the phosphor. I imagine that there are brighter phosphors available now.

I looked at some previous threads discussing Americium I was surprised to see a certain amount of the radiation version of "chemophobia". Sure radiation in sufficiently large amounts can be harmful, but this is true of all chemicals too, and with proper handling (and in small amounts) real hazards can be avoided.

If you want to get really radical you could get some natural uranium ore and extract the decay chain daughters (Shannon & Sons on-line has German pitchblende for $173/kg). If the ore is 1% uranium then 1 kg would have 3.4 microcuries of U-238, and 3.4 micrograms (microcuries) of radium-226. Extracting this (precipitating with barium) could be used to make a combined radium/radon display tube (glow at the bottom from radium, glow at the top from radon).

Total activity of the ore would be ~45 microcuries of everything.

A kg of ore would have a few micrograms of protactinium also (~0.15 microcuries), barely enough for a luminous display.

If you extracted lead from the ore you might be able to create a polonium display tube: Pb-210 containing lead at the bottom of an evacuated tube, coated with phosphor at the upper end. Polonium would migrate to the upper tube, similar to the radon tube.

Just suggestions for the guy who as all the stable elements...

[Edited on 6-8-2014 by careysub]

[Edited on 6-8-2014 by careysub]

[Edited on 6-8-2014 by careysub]

Polverone - 6-8-2014 at 13:36

Wouldn't polonium-containing antistatic cartridges for brushes be a more readily available source than pitchblende? I recall that my parents had one of those brushes for their turntable, and the brushes and cartridges still seem to be available today. Take a picture if you can get a glowing polonium mixture -- it's not going to last very long.

A quick stab at americium purification: the source in smoke detectors appears to be a palladium-americium foil thinly covered in gold. Aqua regia puts everything into solution. Evaporate solution to dryness without boiling to remove excess acid. Dissolve residue in distilled water and use graphite anode, metallic cathode to plate out both gold and palladium. I'm not sure what the next step is after removing noble metals from the solution. This NTIS report suggests that tributyl phosphate is effective for solvent extraction of americium from aqueous solution, and simplified in our case because there aren't other actinides present: http://www.sciencemadness.org/lanl1_a/lib-www/books/rc000061...

careysub - 6-8-2014 at 14:03

Quote: Originally posted by Polverone

Wouldn't polonium-containing antistatic cartridges for brushes be a more readily available source than pitchblende? I recall that my parents had one of those brushes for their turntable, and the brushes and cartridges still seem to be available today. Take a picture if you can get a glowing polonium mixture -- it's not going to last very long.

That is why you must go to a natural uranium ore source. You need the "mother" nuclide of Po-210, which is Pb-210 with a 22.2 year half-life. It constantly generates new polonium by decaying into Bi-210 (5 day half-life) and then into Po-210.

The Pb-210 is the indirect decay product of Ra-226 (1600 years) via a decay chain in which the longest half-life is 3.6 days, and the next longest 1.3 minutes.

Before they had production reactors up and running the Manhattan Project relied on lead from uranium ore to harvest polonium.

careysub - 6-8-2014 at 14:14

Quote: Originally posted by Polverone

...
A quick stab at americium purification: the source in smoke detectors appears to be a palladium-americium foil thinly covered in gold. Aqua regia puts everything into solution. Evaporate solution to dryness without boiling to remove excess acid. Dissolve residue in distilled water and use graphite anode, metallic cathode to plate out both gold and palladium. I'm not sure what the next step is after removing noble metals from the solution. This NTIS report suggests that tributyl phosphate is effective for solvent extraction of americium from aqueous solution, and simplified in our case because there aren't other actinides present: http://www.sciencemadness.org/lanl1_a/lib-www/books/rc000061...

Where to get tributyl phosphate?

Fission product separation is about the worst inorganic separation task there is since practically half the periodic table is present in the intensely radioactive witches brew.

I suspect there is something much easier for separating Am from Pd and Au. (Probably the original bismuth phosphate precipitation process would work, maybe in only one step.)

[Edited on 6-8-2014 by careysub]

Mailinmypocket - 6-8-2014 at 14:23

In concept the idea is nice but I'm not sure I would want to dissolve smoke detector Am pellets in aqua regia at home without knowing where it ends up and how. It probably is not legal either to have dirty lab equipment everywhere, let alone the health risks of soluble alpha emitters. Working with alpha contaminated glass can't be a good idea. Better to keep the Am in the metal slug and stop there surely?

careysub - 6-8-2014 at 15:01

Quote: Originally posted by Mailinmypocket

In concept the idea is nice but I'm not sure I would want to dissolve smoke detector Am pellets in aqua regia at home without knowing where it ends up and how. It probably is not legal either to have dirty lab equipment everywhere, let alone the health risks of soluble alpha emitters. Working with alpha contaminated glass can't be a good idea. Better to keep the Am in the metal slug and stop there surely?

This touches upon the issue of "radiophobia" I mentioned earlier - where safety procedures and risk assessment principles that apply to all chemicals are deemed to be ineffective for radiotoxins for no clear reason.

First consider the magnitude of hazard you are working with - one microcurie of Am-241. The OSHA oral ALI (annual limit of intake) for this isotope is 0.8 microcuries. This means you could swallow it all, and do so every 15 months and stay within OSHA safety standards.

What do you mean "without knowing where it ends up and how"? The purpose of this is to transfer all of it to a sealed vial for display, and what we are discussing is exact procedures that will accomplish that. It isn't magic.

And why is your lab equipment alpha contaminated*? And "dirty everywhere"???

I suspect you do know how to clean glassware.
[Sorry for giving offense. It would have been better to make this a simple direct statement using "know" instead of "suspect" since the intent was to convey my belief that you do know how to clean glassware, and thus deal with the contamination issue successfully.]

Do you ever use lead or mercury salts, or any other material that would be toxic to ingest? Why do these procedures suddenly fail with a trace of radioactive heavy metal?

It isn't an evil curse.

*Alpha contaminated means it won't affect anyone unless perhaps they lick it.

[Edited on 7-8-2014 by careysub]

Mailinmypocket - 6-8-2014 at 15:32

It is not radiophobia. It's is the suggestion that everyone should simply dissolve Am slugs into aqua regia at home, for element collections without mentioning safety or disposal at all. One who so broadly states that Am slugs dissolved into soluble form at home should at the very least caution people about the potential hazards. Yes the amount is low but why introduce more radioactive isotopes into your living environment than necessary?

Yes I know how to clean glass, no need for arrogant remarks. Cleaning radioactive isotopes from glassware is rather different than cleaning certain other lab chemicals, did you know that?

Polverone - 6-8-2014 at 15:41

Quote: Originally posted by careysub

Quote: Originally posted by Polverone

Ah, I see I read your pitchblende suggestion too hastily. Good point about Pb-210.

Elemental Scientific stocks tributyl phosphate, though their prices are a little high. It seems to be pretty widely available from other laboratory suppliers too, though I haven't dug into all of them to see how many will sell to individuals. It may well be overkill compared to coprecipitation directly from the aqueous solution.

neptunium - 7-8-2014 at 07:05

this is an idea i had 20 some years ago... it seems like everybody is doing it theses days! witch is a good thing!
i am glad to see that!

mine is still being fabricated when i realized he forgot 1 case !
its 17 wide ! what the hell ! but he said he can fix it!

just need to fix that , fput the finish on and hang it for display!

careysub - 7-8-2014 at 10:22

Quote: Originally posted by Mailinmypocket

It is not radiophobia. It's is the suggestion that everyone should simply dissolve Am slugs into aqua regia at home, for element collections without mentioning safety or disposal at all.

One who so broadly states that Am slugs dissolved into soluble form at home should at the very least caution people about the potential hazards.

I cautioned that proper handling procedures and tiny amounts of material were necessary for safety. This isn't a detailed procedure post, so what else did you want? No mention of "everyone" that I can see. What do you mean by "broadly"?

What special hazards exceeding or not involved with, say dissolving cinnabar in aqua regia to make mercuric chloride, do you perceive?

Anything starting with dissolving something with aqua regia for any reason already presupposes skill in handling dangerous materials. Threads involving such preps (look up the cinnabar/aqua regia thread) do not normally discuss the standard safety procedures that everyone must know and use (it would make them all very tedious).

In particular what procedures do you think I should have described? You didn't describe any in either of your posts.

Quote:

Yes the amount is low but why introduce more radioactive isotopes into your living environment than necessary?

This is different from introducing more chemicals into your living environment than necessary? Why, specifically?

This seems to be an argument against amateur chemistry as a whole, certainly against most of what gets discussed on this site.

Quote:

Yes I know how to clean glass, no need for arrogant remarks.

I knew you did, and my comment actually implies that I do. I should have used the definite "think" or "know" instead of "suspect". Sorry. I added an apology note to the original. I will amend it if you prefer a different statement of apology.

Quote:

Cleaning radioactive isotopes from glassware is rather different than cleaning certain other lab chemicals, did you know that?

Cleaning any type of chemical from glassware is rather different than cleaning certain other lab chemicals.

Are you saying that if the chemical is radioactive then special procedures are necessary that do not apply to any other type of chemical?

If not, what do you mean?

I assert that any cleaning procedure that will remove heavy metal residues reliably from glassware will work with Americium.

If you disagree, please give specific reasons which we can then discuss.

If I am wrong about this then I need to be set straight.

******

I think ScienceMadness is long overdue a thread discussing radiochemistry. I am going to start one.

If this discussion seems likely to continue, perhaps it should be carried over there.

[Edited on 7-8-2014 by careysub]

[Edited on 7-8-2014 by careysub]

careysub - 7-8-2014 at 10:48

Quote: Originally posted by Polverone

I had done a quick search of "the usual sources" (which I know I can buy from) and turned up nothing, I must have mistyped when searching Elemental since I saw no results.

Yes the TBP extraction could be used, as could the bismuth phosphate precipitation, once the details are worked out.