Ramiel - 2-11-2002 at 23:47
I've looked through all the resources at my fingertips (includes internet and guy with doctorate in chem) and no results have been turned up. I wanted
to know what the CNO- ion is?
thanks
vulture - 3-11-2002 at 15:09
Do you refer to the cyanate ion or the fulminate ion, as they both have the same formula, but a different structure.
Ramiel - 3-11-2002 at 19:09
Well if they have the same formula, then how am I supposed to know.
Fulminate probably. Ironic that I came across this in a sci-fi book first and not in a synthesis for fulminate salts (It's so hard to find proper recipies these days
PHILOU Zrealone - 25-2-2003 at 12:30
Fulminic acid is H-O-N=C
Cyanic acid is H-CN
Cyanuric acid is H-O-CN
isocyanuric acid is H-C=N=O
All have different connectivity between the atoms!
PH Z
KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun) - 12-9-2003 at 16:04
no one doubts you PH Z. I'm sure it was a typo. correct is:
Cyanic acid is H-O-CN
Cyanuric acid is H-CN
isoCyanic acid is H-C=N=O
edit: hey, mine had problems too.
Cyanuric is<b>n't</b> hydrocyanic acid/hydrogen cyanide (HCN) it's cyclic trimer of cyanic acid
>(-C(OH)=N-)<sub>3</sub>>
Isocyanuric is cyclic trimer of isocyanic acid >(-C=O-NH-)<sub>3</sub>>
[Edited on 26-9-2003 by KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)]
PHILOU Zrealone - 13-10-2003 at 04:56
Yes typo and lack of sleep 
Monomeric acids:
H-C#N hydrocyanic
H-O-C#N cyanic acid
H-N=C=O isocyanic acid
H-O-N=C fulminic acid (explosive)
Trimeric acids:
(-CH=N-)3 sym-triazene (not acid)
(-C(OH)=N-)3 cyanuric acid
(-CO-NH-)3 isocyanuric acid
(-CH=N(O)-)3 fulminuric acid (explosive).
Anyway:
HO-C#N <--> (-)O-C#N + H(+)
H-N=C=O <--> H(+) + (-)N=C=O
H-C=N=O <--> H(+) + (-)C=N=O
and
(-)N=C=O <--==> N#C-O(-)
(by electronic pushpull)
So both isocyanic and cyanic anion have the same structure and trun reversibely into each other.
(-)C=N=O <--> C=N-O(-)
On the other side fulminic anion is unless it rearranges its atom to (iso)cyanic (by detonative decomposition), balanced between an unusual bivalent
C (like in C=O) or a knind of nitronic anion.
The parenthood between H-C=N=O/H-O-N=C and CH3-NO2 (H3C-NO2) becomes evident when one knows that Hg(O-N(O)=CH2)2 (mercury nitronate) turns
spontaneously into Hg(-O-N=C)2 (or Hg(-C=N=O)2) by dehydratation.
Ph Z