IvX - 21-10-2004 at 18:01
Mainly curious, whats the strongest 'drug' around.I google'd for the last week or so but all I get is the usual LSD/carfentanil thing.
Is there anything with a lower dosage than lsd,if so what is it?
chemoleo - 21-10-2004 at 18:07
By narcotic, you presumably mean it leaves you unharmed after the 'narcotic' has left your system? Because, in a way, certain drugs would
kill you were it not for life-support. Very effective narcotics. Totally harmless if you have life-support. But deadly if you don't (i..e curare
derivatives which are used for surgery).
Well I am not a medic to make the distinction.
Anyway - I always liked this idea about narcotics.
I know a few by name, but not for all I know their biochemical effects. Maybe someone has a great website for this.
For instance, Autan (thats the German trademark for an insect repellant) is a local anaesthetic (hmm - I guess that doesn't equal narcotic?),
because I found if you accidentially got it onto your lips it would numb them.
Anyway, I shall ask a medic tomorrow.
stygian - 24-10-2004 at 16:35
Strongest narcotic as i know is etorphine. A few mg's are used for tranquilizing elephants, rhinos, things of that nature.
didn't I read somewhere...
Hermes_Trismegistus - 24-10-2004 at 18:31
that n-methyl-fentanyl was stronger than Hercules on steroids?
Fentanyl
MadHatter - 24-10-2004 at 18:49
As I understand it, fentanyl citrate is 1000 times more powerful than heroin ! Correct me
if I'm wrong - right now I'm feeling the effects of codeine cough syrup because of a sinus
infection. So please - FLAME AWAY !
P.S. It feels GOOD !
tom haggen - 24-10-2004 at 21:40
Yes, I downloaded some information the other day about 4-methyl-fentanyl. It says that it is about 50-100 times more powerful than morphine in humans.
sufentanil, alfentanil are used as analgesics, but other forms of the drug are use for purposes like antihistimines.
It still doesn't compare to the ratio of dose per high as LSD. I'm kind of full of shit here, but a few 100micrograms of LSD is all you need
to feel a strong effect. Not milligrams, micrograms.
[Edited on 25-10-2004 by tom haggen]
Sorry for the delay
IvX - 25-10-2004 at 02:08
Actually an avaerage hit of LSD has only about 30 micrograms(though you can take upto 300 or so).After this comes carfentanil with an ED50 of 0.6
micrograms/kilo in humans.
Got that of rhodium archive and erowid(and some experiance 
)
Edit:
Made a typo, ouch.Carfantanil(ananlogue of fentanyl,btw)
[Edited on 25-10-2004 by IvX]
Acid
MadHatter - 25-10-2004 at 03:11
At age 46, acid would probably KILL me ! That one is for the young ! My tripping days are over !
Given my past experiences, acid is a fantastic high provided your body and mind can stand
up to it. When I was "tripping", everything was funny, no matter how absurd it was !
stygian - 25-10-2004 at 05:43
from http://www.opioids.com/etorphine/immobilon.html :
When given subcutaneously M99 is 1,000 - 80,000 times more potent than morphine as an analgesic, depending on the test situation. Its use for
immobilising game animals results largely from its ability to cause catatonia at very low dose levels.
As far as im concernced LSD isn't 'narcotic', but yea, has a very low active dose.. Followed by Salvinorin.
IvX - 25-10-2004 at 20:29
Just for the record carfentanil has an ed50 of 0.00058 mg/kilo(0.0005 mg/kilo for etorphin)
BTW, usually a hit of acid is about 25 ug(better one's 75 though) and(going from erowid vaults) salvonin is about 500 ug's or so for a
single hit.
[Edited on 26-10-2004 by IvX]
DDTea - 27-10-2004 at 16:12
The title of this thread got me thinking, not so much about potency of a given drug but about its processing in the body. Consider codeine, which is
converted to morphine in the liver. Surely it would be possible to calculate how much codeine one could take to produce a certain amount of morphine
internally, and thus predict what kind of a high they'd get.
But this is too simple. From what I understand, the effects of codeine and morphine are very different, with morphine being more euphoric. So how
is the morphine, as produced by the liver, different from morphine taken directly via the bloodstream? That is to say, how do they affect the body
differently, with the injected morphine being more potent?
tom haggen - 27-10-2004 at 18:12
Well coming from someone who appreciates a good opiate high I can tell you what I know. Morphine, codeine, and a few other alkaloids from the poppy
plant tend to affect the body in different ways. Morphine and codeine for example, exhibit the worst side effects of all the alkaloids. For instance
constipation, inactive blatter, topical itching of the skin, stomach cramping, to name a few. Oxycodone on the other hand does have these side
effects, but it is not as bad. I don't know about heroin because I've never done it. But I assume that the side effects are low or else
everyone wouldn't love it so much, It's the withdraw symptoms of heroin that are really bad
DDTea - 28-10-2004 at 15:09
Ah, I should rephrase that 
. What I meant was how does the morphine produced
internally from codeine affect the body differently than injected or oral morphine, in a biochemical sense?
oxydiser - 12-12-2004 at 08:21
Aye, as you were saying codeine is metabolised to a small extent (<10%) to morphine in the liver by CYP2D6 enzymes to produce it's analgesic
effects. However, there are several other active codeine/morphine metabolites (formed via conjugation with glucuronic acid) that contribute to the
analgesic effect.
CYP2D6 is one of those polymorphic enzymes with different levels of activity depending on the presence of various single nucleotide polymorphisms.
These mutations split the population into two phenotypes: poor metabolizers (don't make any morphine from codeine = no pain relief) and extensive
metabolizers (mucho morphine formed = get high off codeine!). Lucky bastads 
So
in short, the morphine derived from endogenous metabolism of codeine does not differ biochemically from oral/i.v. morphine, its the different
metabolites produced...
As a side topic: Do we have any pharmacologists amongst us at Sciencemadness? I love the subject, it takes the good parts of biochemistry,
microbiology, chemistry and the best thing is that it is all about DRUGS and the mechanisms they use to produce their effects (waaaaaaaa 
can you tell that I am missing the hive?). Just finished me BSc in chemistry and
pharmacology and trying my hardest to get into a pharmacy course next year which will present some VERY interesting opportunities
Magpie - 12-12-2004 at 20:40
Just out of curiosity what are the requirements for getting into pharmacy school?
oxydiser - 13-12-2004 at 07:36
Well, I dunno about the U.S. but in the land of Oz the 4 year BPharm is pretty hard to get into, entry from secondary school requiring applicable
maths (2nd highest mathematics below straight calculus) and chemistry. Cut off scores from last year were a TER (tertiary entrance rank) of ~96,
meaning that you have to be in the top 4% of school leavers to even get a look in.
But at the particular uni I am going to, a 2 year MPharm course is starting in 2005 which is the one I wanna get into, you only need a BSc with the
relevent background! Sweeet mate Only thing is that it costs AUS$45 000 to the
two years 
more than twice what my 3 year degree costs me. Ahh well, I'll
have that payed off in double time after I get a proper job
Blind Angel - 13-12-2004 at 10:42
Here you need your 2 Calculus Course (derivate + integral) + Mecanic and Electric Physic + Physic Chemistry, Solution Chemistry and Organic Chemistry
I + some good grade for Pharmacology, and for Pharmacy it's the same thing with even better grade...