Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Getting some things off my chest about inventing.

Getting some things off my chest about inventing.

deltaH - 7-10-2013 at 00:56

Hi guys,

I need to get something off my chest...

Some people seem to be extremely upset that I am considering/discussing ideas that might potentially not work or that don't have a paper that already demonstrates that it has been found to work in the way I am proposing?!

Some people might even think that this is not scientific method?!!

There is nothing wrong, in the context of the scientific method, of proposing a new way of doing something based on an uncertain hypothesis and then designing experiments to study this to try to disprove your hypothesis.

I am at the initial stages of this study, so I am exploring the literature and trying to develop my understanding around it so that I may propose a setup for evaluating my idea.

Now some say this is a scientific forum... excellent... this means it's the PERFECT place to bounce my ideas off with collegues and peers and discuss theories and viewpoints about the science of this. A forum is NOT the same thing as a journal. If I do oneday get this to work nicely, I could theoretically publish my findings in a journal. I'm not there yet.

Now that said, there is the issue of is it not deritus or whimsy or beginnings. This is not my call.

However, I think since I've already proven that this process is thermodynamically possible and that nature has already proven that it is kinetically possible.

...and finally there is a large body of literature on the topic at large, so while not EXACTLY my idea, there is certainly a basis of study here to START from.

So I am very sorry that you are not convinced this can work... tough... this is why we do science.

Or are you trying to say that amateur science is not allowed to do anything too challenging?

I didn't think so.

[Edited on 7-10-2013 by deltaH]

phlogiston - 7-10-2013 at 02:17

Ok, so if you are truly convinced your idea is going to work, DO the experiment and show us.

Regardless of whether it'll work or not, actually doing science will earn you the respect that you seek.

If you came here to "bounce your ideas off with collegues and peers ", well, many here did give you their honest thoughts on your ideas, right? So there isn't really any problem as far as I can see. Why be offended? Use the arguments offered to you to your advantage. If you think your hypothesis still holds after discussing it and it is important enough to prove yourself right, feel free to do so.

[Edited on 7-10-2013 by phlogiston]

deltaH - 7-10-2013 at 03:14

@phlogiston

I agree with everything you have said and I was very please with the challenges many people raised, however, there are elements of things I think are overstepping the line and so I have made this general appeal about the importance of fair principles. There is no name and shame here, just a short reminder of something I feel is important for all of us to remember/bear in mind in order not to degrade what sciencemadness.org stands for.

watson.fawkes - 7-10-2013 at 04:12

Quote: Originally posted by deltaH

things I think are overstepping the line
[...]
what sciencemadness.org stands for

Innovating in any way and having a thin skin are incompatible. Simple fact of life.

Sciencemadness stands for experimentation, none of which is in evidence with you yet.

Moderator Reminder

bfesser - 7-10-2013 at 08:45

deltaH, could you please try to cut it out with the drama? If you want to ask scientific questions and propose theoretical constructs, that's fine, but the martyrdom complex is getting a bit annoying. If you must continue with this, request access to Whimsy. Miscellaneous is for posts about science that do not fit into the other categories, not for complaining about members disagreeing with your ideas.

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not weighing in on any of your "innovation" proposals—to be honest, I'm entirely uninterested in the discussion. I found the topics to be dull and have stopped reading them in detail.

deltaH - 7-10-2013 at 09:33

Quote:

deltaH, could you please try to cut it out with the drama?

I shall try.

Quote:

Miscellaneous is for posts about science that do not fit into the other categories

I only placed it here because I couldn't make up my mind about where exactly it would best fit in and knew that it shall be relegated as required.

This post was less about drama and more a commentary/suggestion for the spirit of sciencemadness and the scientific method in general, so couldn't decide if this is whimsy or forum matters, so opted with the broad basis which is miscellaneous, perhaps detritus? As I do not have access to whimsy as of yet, posting it to whimsy is mute.

Quote:

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not weighing in on any of your "innovation" proposals—to be honest, I'm entirely uninterested in the discussion. I found the topics to be dull and have stopped reading them in detail

Thank you for making that absolutely clear, I must admit I was so confused about your interest in my "innovation". As we are in the spirit of sharing, let me be absolutely clear that I am most thankful for your disinterest.

jamit - 7-10-2013 at 09:43

bfesser... you said it just right. deltaH you are too dramatic!

Also, watson fawkes is right... sciencemadness.org is not merely about science in general or the theory of it though some of that does get discussed as it should. Rather, Sciencemadness.org is mainly about experimentation... you have talked much about scientific innovation and theories but now tell us what experiment(s) you performed to prove or disprove your hypothesis. Where is experiment and does it prove or disprove your scientific hypothesis?? That's what makes sciencemadness.org special.

Eddygp - 7-10-2013 at 09:43

So this forum is where we shall post about geology...

deltaH - 7-10-2013 at 10:18

Hi Jamit,

Quote:

sciencemadness.org is not merely about science in general or the theory of it though some of that does get discussed as it should.

I think I understand what you're not trying to say with that.

Quote:

you have talked much about scientific innovation and theories but now tell us what experiment(s) you performed to prove or disprove your hypothesis.

Patience... there's a method to the madness of science. If you find this process or topic dull and uninteresting as bfesser so eloquently stated, you should follow his example in refraining from that thread. Personally I find comfort and value in a systematic approach starting with the evaluation of the state of the art.

Quote:

That's what makes sciencemadness.org special.

Indeed... I love the place!

[Edited on 7-10-2013 by deltaH]

bfesser - 7-10-2013 at 10:45

Quote: Originally posted by deltaH

If like bfesser, you find this process dull and uninteresting, you should follow his example in refraining from that thread.

No; I found your particular idea to be uninteresting, not the scientific method! To elucidate, I'm staying out of the debates that you've started—it's good to have at least one (active) moderator remain neutral, in case flaming necessitates intervention. I also didn't want you to think that I'm scolding you based on any opinions I may have of your ideas. I'm just asking for a reduction in drama.
<a href="viewthread.php?tid=19143">

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Avoid emotional responses: Even if you are immature enough to actually believe that it is reasonable to take offense if some anonymous virtual person posts what you perceive as aggressive and offensive replies to your own anonymous virtual incarnation, take a day to calm down and reply correspondingly to the virtual reality, rather than overreact with some pathetic response. However, if someone uses ad hominen attacks or insults instead of scientific arguments (e.g., by calling you a wacko), then report to a moderator rather than escalating it further.

</a>

deltaH - 7-10-2013 at 11:03

Quote:

No; I found your particular idea to be uninteresting, not the scientific method!

Indeed, hence why I made the subtle edit in wording shortly after posting, but you were too quick to pick it up

Quote:

I also didn't want you to think that I'm scolding you based on any opinions I may have of your ideas. I'm just asking for a reduction in drama.

Noted

[Edited on 7-10-2013 by deltaH]

sonogashira - 7-10-2013 at 11:32

Locking a thread seems to create drama, I've noticed. Dramatic moderation keeps science exciting!

bfesser - 7-10-2013 at 11:45

sonogashira, I've noticed that as well. I have to admit, the community of patrons on this forum is a lot different from that of others I have moderated. It's taking me a while to adjust, but I think I'm getting a feel for how not to piss everyone off. As for your last sentence, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Apologies for any hastily locked threads; I've learned not to sign on until after taking my medication and coffee in the morning.

sonogashira - 7-10-2013 at 12:00

I just meant that the drama's exciting!

deltaH - 7-10-2013 at 12:43

Quote:

...after taking my medication and coffee in the morning.

Now that is bound to invite drama, but you won't be getting any from me... no sir-ee, mmm-mmm (shakes head)

A little more seriously, I admire and am thankful to the moderators for the work they do, however, that doesn't always mean I necessarily approve of their judgement, but that only applies in my case off course

ElectroWin - 7-10-2013 at 16:22

it's all just cheap talk, until the experiment is done.
[ speaking of which, i promised to do one but it keeps getting waylaid. sorry. ]

deltaH - 8-10-2013 at 01:45

'cheap talk'... harldly... it helped me to land a pair of the electrode with which to start experimenting with

[Edited on 8-10-2013 by deltaH]

bfesser - 8-10-2013 at 06:28

Great, now stop talking, go experiment, and report back with some empirical data. Be sure to document your experiments in detail so they can be repeated and verified by others—and for Farraday's sake, run some controls!

froot - 21-11-2013 at 22:32

Innovation is frought with drama, to avoid this do what I do, go innovate and THEN report back to us on where your goal is and how you reached it or how badly you missed it.

Feed us with PICTURES and we'll be nice, promise!!