Sciencemadness Discussion Board - DDNP as a stable diazonium compound

DDNP as a stable diazonium compound

roXefeller - 11-9-2013 at 16:41

I was studying the diazotization process, and there is plenty to read. But most texts were stating that the diazonium ion was generally unstable above 5oC. So the diazonium ion is reacted at the moment of creation to the final (stable) product. But I kept thinking about DDNP being a diazotized picrimate. I've found two slim mentions of this stability being a result of the negative character of the O- dissolved hydroxyl group and that diazotized aromatic amines have a specific possibility of the conjugated system balancing the charge imbalance of the N2+. There are several webpages that actually differ in formula from the Davis text and try to include a hydrogen bonded to the N2+, casting doubt on how well they actually understand the compound. Can anyone explain this phenomenon a little better for me?

Dany - 11-9-2013 at 20:36

A complete chapter is dictated to DDNP in this book on primary explosive:

http://www.springer.com/chemistry/physical+chemistry/book/97...

in chapter 6 we will find information on possible structure of DDNP and other important chemical and physical properties. for further information see the references at the end of the chapter.

Dany.

[Edited on 12-9-2013 by Dany]

Ral123 - 11-9-2013 at 22:39

That book is 83 euro and many of these books are made by people who haven't seen explosive material in their lives.

Rosco Bodine - 11-9-2013 at 23:39

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9fzstasacfqrato/Primary+Ex...

Chapter 6 DDNP attached

[Edited on 12-9-2013 by Rosco Bodine]

Attachment: DDNP Chapter 6 from Primary Explosives - Matyas, Pachman.pdf (454kB)
This file has been downloaded 1794 times

Ral123 - 11-9-2013 at 23:42

Oh so it's the good old "chemistry of powder and explosives".

Dany - 11-9-2013 at 23:54

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123

That book is 83 euro and many of these books are made by people who haven't seen explosive material in their lives.

give me the name of a book where the authors haven't see an explosive materials???

books like this are made by researcher and experimentalist in the field. for example the author of "Primary explosive" are researcher in the Faculty of Chemical Technology-Department of Theory and Technology of Explosives, Pardubice (Czech republic) headed by Prof. Svatopluk Zeman one of the most respectable scientist in this field (with more than 350 published paper).

http://www.upce.cz/en/fcht/uem/zamestnanci/zam-zeman.html

this department is very active in the synthesis and testing of primary and plastic explosive.

Dany.

[Edited on 12-9-2013 by Dany]

AndersHoveland - 12-9-2013 at 00:26

short answer is that the actual structure and chemistry is very complicated, so it is usually simplified.

Quote: Originally posted by roXefeller

this stability being a result of the negative character of the O- dissolved hydroxyl group and that diazotized aromatic amines have a specific possibility of the conjugated system balancing the charge imbalance of the N2+.

[Edited on 12-9-2013 by AndersHoveland]

Ral123 - 12-9-2013 at 02:50

Quote: Originally posted by Dany

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123

That book is 83 euro and many of these books are made by people who haven't seen explosive material in their lives.

give me the name of a book where the authors haven't see an explosive materials???
[Edited on 12-9-2013 by Dany]

All the books with some practical instructions.
On the other side chemistry and technology of explosives is one of the best books I've read.

Dany - 12-9-2013 at 03:13

I agree with you Ral123, that chemistry and technology of explosives is one of the most complete series on explosive, but saying that authors that wrote books (real books and not recipes made by amateur on internet!) on HEDM have never seen an explosive materials is nonsense.

Dany.

caterpillar - 14-9-2013 at 11:47

Quote: Originally posted by Dany

I agree with you Ral123, that chemistry and technology of explosives is one of the most complete series on explosive, but saying that authors that wrote books (real books and not recipes made by amateur on internet!) on HEDM have never seen an explosive materials is nonsense.

Dany.

May be it is nonsense, but many texts in some books forces me to think, that authors rewrite these texts from another books without tiniest criticism. Read at this very forum "the worst book, ever written". For example, dear Jared Ledgard has too much BS in its famous book. There is no need in equipped lab, if one wants to write a book- take three of existing ones and make compilation. There is one russian text- "a bomb from a shop". Many people think, that this text is a provocation, intended to kill inexperienced amateurs. I do not think, that to melt acetone diperoxide is a good idea.