Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Detritus Approved?!?

gravityzero - 25-6-2013 at 11:22

I've been perusing the threads which found their way into the Detritus forum. Enjoying a good laugh here and there.

My concern for science madness is very much the same as for my concern with society. It appears that most of the subject matter surrounds gaining an understanding for drug synthesis. What I guess I don't understand is why that is seen differently from any other subject interest in chemistry.

It does not seem very intellectual to so easily dismiss topics that are not of interest to the community at large. If you don't have anything to add, simply move on. I don't particularly care about drug synths, nor do I care about various other topics, but I don't discount the knowledge that could be gained.

People have also placed HHO engine topics in Detritus, maybe because they don't personally believe they will work. Never mind I could explain why the theory should work without delving too deep into scientific particulars or theories.

Regardless, it seems funny for people to comment on procedures and dismiss them so readily, especially while knowing that the original synthesizing chemists are known and respected worldwide. I think it says a lot about human mentality and the fact that we place unnecessary limitations on our progress.

You may now move to Detritus.:P

Poppy - 25-6-2013 at 11:30

lol this could well be a suitable introduction for the detritus section
Damn detritus is more like an anesthesia ~!

Mailinmypocket - 25-6-2013 at 11:44

Most of the threads in detritus related to drug synthesis are not presented in a scientific manner. Drug chemistry discussions are not forbidden here (AFAIK) but they need to be written in a non kewlish way and show some form of desire to learn the chemistry of the process in question, not just the desire to get a yield and make some bucks. In the organic chemistry section there are some nice discussions about the chemistry and research relating to drugs, but it is done properly.

Look in detritus and most of the drug related crap seems to be from cooks who are stuck and hit a snag in the middle of a synth and come here as a last resort for assistance, not something amateur chemists want to be associated with. The social view on our hobby can have bad enough repercussions as is. There are also drug forums that would probably be the best place to go to for cooks who need some last minute assistance and advice.

gravityzero - 25-6-2013 at 12:26

I do see where you are going with this and I can see both sides to the discussion. I will simply put this into context within my own personal capabilities.

I standup level 3 network infrastructures for a metropolitan government institution, for a living. I find this discussion synonymous with a scenario of me telling anyone interested in gaining this type of insight, "well maybe your intentions are to hack a network, maybe my own. So I am not going to assist you in an understanding of such architects."

1. That person is going to learn networking without my assistance, for better or worse.
2. Hacking will continue to take place.

The only thing I accomplished was looking like a jerk.

I am sad to see people on here, whose sole intentions seem to be drug synths, especially for monetary gains.

I am even sadder to see kids resort to bath salts, when it appears at first glance that MDXX synths would have been a better choice. Not to mention, if the individual were to focus on ergot amines they would surely benefit the most. and I will not argue the fact or the ability for increased mental insight when being smart about the substances one chooses to put in their body.

These attributes are a part of life, like it or not. No one will benefit further from a fractionally distilled version of life; that I can guarantee.

Organikum - 25-6-2013 at 13:13

Mostly I agree with you, just sciencemadness is on science amateur science but nevertheless and not on cooking. Neither explosives nor drugs.
For drugs if the plain howto is whats asked for there are better places like:
the-collective.ws
thevespiary.org

just to name two which strieve for scientific correctness and are so a good starting point IMHO.

What I strongly disapprove is to stuff posts into detritus without giving the poster the links as above. I ask the moderators not to do this anymore, it is very bad style.

Sciencemadness is the illegitimate child of Rouguesci and the HIVE, the try to take the good and leave the bad of both and it is a success in doing so.
Trying to be not more catholic then the pope is an important part of this.

regards
/ORG

gravityzero - 25-6-2013 at 14:59

WOW Oraganikum, I had no idea Science Madness was a spawn site from the HIVE. I assume you mean the site started by Hobart Huson, whose book I bought nearly a decade ago for $25, still sits on my shelf along side Phikal, and boasts a selling price today of over 1/2 grand. I once had two copies, but a friend suggested I ditch it before crossing the Canadian border in 2005.

BTW, I have been reading posts from Science Madness for probably around 5 years or more, without submitting a single post myself. I was all about learning and reading first.

I can recall seeing posts from you for quite some time. I really enjoy the community of Science Madness and hope to contribute in the future. I also don't want to come off in a bad light.

As for me, my only ambition is to gain a better understanding of the world around me, for self satisfaction and not monetary exploits.

watson.fawkes - 25-6-2013 at 16:12

Quote: Originally posted by gravityzero  
I find this discussion synonymous with a scenario of me telling anyone interested in gaining this type of insight, [...]
The trouble is they aren't interested in gaining insight; they're interested in making their rote recipe work.

Or to put it in terms closer to home, "lazy cook" == "script kiddie".

gravityzero - 25-6-2013 at 16:24

Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  
Quote: Originally posted by gravityzero  
I find this discussion synonymous with a scenario of me telling anyone interested in gaining this type of insight, [...]
Or to put it in terms closer to home, "lazy cook" == "script kiddie".


Great Analogy.

My problem is I often look at such issues through the prism of how I would handle a situation, which usually stems from understanding and reverence for a substance; rather than a quest to get plastered.

I envision a society of the future, where the mass majority have similar intentions. Then the alarm clock rings and I begin another day.

Organikum - 25-6-2013 at 19:32

Quote: Originally posted by gravityzero  
WOW Oraganikum, I had no idea Science Madness was a spawn site from the HIVE. I assume you mean the site started by Hobart Huson, whose book I bought nearly a decade ago for $25, still sits on my shelf along side Phikal, and boasts a selling price today of over 1/2 grand. I once had two copies, but a friend suggested I ditch it before crossing the Canadian border in 2005.

BTW, I have been reading posts from Science Madness for probably around 5 years or more, without submitting a single post myself. I was all about learning and reading first.

I can recall seeing posts from you for quite some time. I really enjoy the community of Science Madness and hope to contribute in the future. I also don't want to come off in a bad light.

As for me, my only ambition is to gain a better understanding of the world around me, for self satisfaction and not monetary exploits.


Ah my bad english, not a direct spawn but for sure inspired by the HIVE and Roguesci and fueled by the principle of the freedom of information as being central for a halfway free society.
Well nowadays its not the information but more the metadata whats to worry about. The new ways of the mind police are disturbing.....

/ORG

watson.fawkes - 26-6-2013 at 05:43

Quote: Originally posted by gravityzero  
Great Analogy.

My problem is I often look at such issues through the prism of how I would handle a situation, which usually stems from understanding and reverence for a substance; rather than a quest to get plastered.
It's an important issue because it's happened before in chemistry. Robert Boyle had many reasons for recreating himself out of the field then called alchemy, some good, some bad. One of the good reasons, though, was that many self-styled alchemists had no interest in science but rather in fraud, frequently involving gold, in its multiplication and transmutation. Multiplication was alloying to a similar appearance. Assaying methods and the idea of a singular gold substance developed hand in hand. The two milestones were specific gravity (Archimedes) and mineral acids (Jabir) that could dissolve out base metals. So by the time of Boyle, it was most a settled question that known methods of multiplication didn't work (though an open question about whether some might exist), and it had been settled for centuries. At the time, though, knowledge was not as evenly distributed as today, and it was still possible to promote old theories for the purpose of fraud. Boyle felt the need to separate his field from these people, the chemical script-kiddies of their day.

Today, chemistry as a whole isn't at risk as it was then, but amateur chemistry is. The behavior that's illegitimate this time is yet again involved in making a quick buck at the expense of other people.

ScienceSquirrel - 27-6-2013 at 12:27

As moderators we act on our own initiative and look at posts on a case by case basis.
Theoretical discussions of drug synthesis are allowed and welcomed.
What we can take a dim view of are obvious recipes and cooking.
It depends on quantity and the drug. Someone who has distilled 500ml of THF out of B&Q or Walmart plastic cement, oxidised it using ghetto kit, performed the separation with Red Devil lye and patio washing hydrochloric acid is likely to get short shrift.
The sheer quantity, the amateurish approach, poor quality reagents and the fact that it is used as a date rape drug all flag it up.
The same goes for Energetic Materials.
Rockets and rocket fuels are widely legitimate, as are fireworks, although experimenters may need to acquire a licence, have their premises inspected, etc.
Small amounts of explosives are also legal in most places as long as they are made in a spirit of scientific enquiry and do not cause a nuisance or hazard to neighbours and other members of the public.
So these subjects are allowed.
What is not allowed are posts along the lines of; '! have made 2kg of AP and am planning on sticking it in a 1 litre paint can. It is going to go BOOM tomorrow.'
The poster may blow themselves and others up and unless they live in the outer boonies will probably call in every cop, woolly, pig, flic, heat, etc for miles.
The poster or another member can appeal if a post is sent to Detritus or about any moderation decision.
We try and act in the best interests of Science Madness and the community as a whole.

[Edited on 27-6-2013 by ScienceSquirrel]

SM2 - 27-6-2013 at 14:43

Spot On.