Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Source of Sodium Azide

malford - 22-6-2013 at 05:58

In my attempt to produce lead azide, I have found a supplier of sodium azide: http://www.amresco-inc.com/SODIUM-AZIDE-0639.cmsx

250 grams for $47.64 seems reasonable but is far more than I need. Does anyone know of another supplier?

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 06:03

If you buy some, and have too much, I would gladly buy you some.

I don't know any supplier in north america else than chemicals company that sell only to institutions, I know some in Europe tough.

malford - 22-6-2013 at 06:10

plante1999,

Are you familiar with the above supplier? Do you think they will not sell without being an institution?

adamsium - 22-6-2013 at 06:15

Quote: Originally posted by malford  
plante1999,

Are you familiar with the above supplier? Do you think they will not sell without being an institution?


No, they will not and they are quite unambiguous about this.

"AMRESCO's products are available to companies or institutions only. Direct sales to the public are not available."

http://www.amresco-inc.com/home/about-us/AMRESCO-Ordering-In...

malford - 22-6-2013 at 06:17

I own an LLC so I can probably swing this. I have received free HTSC wire before :-D

adamsium - 22-6-2013 at 06:20

Well, from their shipping info page: " On-line orders can be shipped to domestic business or institutional addresses only. Products cannot be delivered to residential addresses. " So, unless you have a business address, you may be out of luck.

http://www.amresco-inc.com/home/about-us/Shipping-Informatio...

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 06:28

TADA:

http://reagentshop.com/home/358-sodium-azide-reagent-980-500...

No need for a company or company address.

But if you buy a lot, keep me a part of it.

malford - 22-6-2013 at 06:32

Nice find. Group buy, anyone? I accept PayPal lol

Update:
Another supplier: http://creschem.com/sodium-azide-100g
Reasonable price, unsure about residential shipping

[Edited on 22-6-2013 by malford]

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 06:38

I will, but I would like to keep the original bottle if possible, malford could put in bottle part of everyone, and ship me the original bottle. How much do you need malford?

Don't know if the supplier you gave ship to residential, but the azide is too costly.

[Edited on 22-6-2013 by plante1999]

malford - 22-6-2013 at 06:48

The most I need is half of that. I would be fine with as little as 100 grams if anyone else wanted some.

Edit:
Yes, your supplier is by far the cheapest I've seen.

[Edited on 22-6-2013 by malford]

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 06:54

Do you mind me to ask what is the use? And we need more people for the group purchase, I would take half, maybe more if a part can be paid in chems or labware.

gnitseretni - 22-6-2013 at 06:59

I'll take some.

malford - 22-6-2013 at 07:24

$0.24 per gram plus $6 US shipping via USPS Priority.

gnitseretni, do you know how much you'd like?

Edit:
plante1999, at the risk of sounding kewl, I intend to use it to experiment with sub-gram lead azide detonations. What about you?

[Edited on 22-6-2013 by malford]

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 07:34

Aziridine, special amine synthesis. And a reaction that need expelation of nitrogen to form C-N with nitrogen at oxidation state 6 which is fairly reactive.

I might also experiment a bit with primary, but it is not my main interest at all.

gnitseretni - 22-6-2013 at 07:37

100g sounds about right.

EDIT: Are you getting 500g? Plante said he'll take half, so 250g for him, 100g for you, 100g for me.. that leaves 50g. I'll take that, too, if we can't get more buyers.

[Edited on 6-22-2013 by gnitseretni]

malford - 22-6-2013 at 07:55

Sounds good. Yes, it's 500 grams.

250 plante
150 gnit
100 for me

If you guys message me your addresses, I'll see what the exact postage is. I print shipping labels from home. Then, I'll message you the total.

Blue Matter - 22-6-2013 at 08:56

Could I purchase the extra 50 grams?

Hexavalent - 22-6-2013 at 10:17

Personally, I feel that with such chemicals as sodium azide - which is both very toxic and explosive - they should only be shared on the forum with well-established members, as opposed to people like Blue Matter, who's only post is asking for this 50g of the azide here.

gnitseretni - 22-6-2013 at 10:24

Well, I'm afraid he's already too late. I sent Malford money for 150g.

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 10:27

If you sent money for 150g, then there is no problem, blue can't buy the 50g, because gnit baught it.

Funny, reagent shop sell everything to everyone everywhere. Including red phosphorus, gamma butyrolactone etc...

Reagentshop, "your source for suspicious and regulated chemicals"

[Edited on 22-6-2013 by plante1999]

[Edited on 22-6-2013 by plante1999]

malford - 22-6-2013 at 11:04

plante, do you feel the sodium azide may be fraudulent from this supplier?

For the record:

150 grams bought by gnit
50 grams bought by blue matter
plante is unsure of how much he wants lol

plante1999 - 22-6-2013 at 11:07

I do not, but I feal it is a supplier for clandestine chemistry.

I don't think it is a good idea malford to sell the azide to blue, azide is extremely poisonous, be careful, watch the people that you sell to, I would cancel blue order rigth now if I were you.

malford - 22-6-2013 at 11:17

You have inspired me to draft a contract eliminating my liability. Everyone expect to receive it soon.

:-P

Fantasma4500 - 22-6-2013 at 12:09

APCpure in UK sells 100g amounts including whatever acid you might want to get a hold of to whoever has money.. neat site for us who live in europe

malford - 23-6-2013 at 13:25

Can anyone post information about the legal status of sodium azide? I have seen several references to it being prohibited, controlled, unavailable, but I am finding several websites that sell it. I am wondering if 500g may be a bit too much. Obviously I want to avoid being charged for something because I have materials that can be used to make explosives.

Wouldn't lead azide, as with any other explosive, be legal to produce in very small quantities if it is not sold, distributed or used for business purposes?

Also, has anyone had any experience with either chemsavers.com or smokechemicals.com?



[Edited on 23-6-2013 by malford]

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 13:31

Chemsaver do not sell anymore to the public.

In Canada, it is legal to manufacture under 100g of explosive material for research purpose, if it is disposed within two days.

Sodium azide is regulated, but not illegal, if you sell fast the lots of azide to member, and keep under 100g of it, you should be good.

malford - 23-6-2013 at 13:39

plante,

Do you have a link to a government website or document that addressed the regulation of sodium azide? I am only able to find safety information on government websites.

edit:
I forget that you are in Canada. As such, I relieve you of the burden of finding said information. I am in US.

Also, I do not see anywhere on the chemsaver website that they will not ship to residential addresses. I see an "intended use form" which I am happy to fill out with: I intend to use sodium azide to research electrically induced sublimation or electrically induced detonation.

[Edited on 23-6-2013 by malford]

sargent1015 - 23-6-2013 at 13:39

smokechemicals has 25 pounds of zirconium sulfate for $100 bucks :o

malford - 23-6-2013 at 13:41

sarg,

Yes, some of their prices are ridiculously low. Frankly, I'd like to hear from at least one previous custom before I place my order with them.

sargent1015 - 23-6-2013 at 13:42

Quote: Originally posted by malford  
Frankly, I'd like to hear from at least one previous custom before I place my order with them.


I agree, if we get some good feedback, anyone want to go in on that zirconium sulfate? :D

S.C. Wack - 23-6-2013 at 13:47

Should someone convert it to lead azide, prior to a LE inquiry into same, the legal status of NaN3 may not be straightforward. All those involved in this conspiracy to acquire a crucial chemical for bomb detonators, including this site which facilitated this conspiracy, could be at some risk of being "contacted" by the authorities.

malford - 23-6-2013 at 13:56

Wack,

I am beginning to conclude the same. I have cancelled my order and refunded any payments from members. I would still like to find a much smaller quantity to be used for research.

Do you recommend information of local LE of possession and intended use prior to purchase?

sargent1015 - 23-6-2013 at 14:05

Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Should someone convert it to lead azide, prior to a LE inquiry into same, the legal status of NaN3 may not be straightforward. All those involved in this conspiracy to acquire a crucial chemical for bomb detonators, including this site which facilitated this conspiracy, could be at some risk of being "contacted" by the authorities.


This is actually somewhat of a frightening thought with the recent bombings and what have you.

But then again, this becomes a philosophical question of doing chemistry in ones own home. While there are some of us that are strictly curious, there are others out there looking to maim and injure.

Food for thought.

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 14:08

If malford doesn't sell it, and nobody wants to, I will take the risks.

S.C. Wack - 23-6-2013 at 14:08

It's not a good sign if you need to state intended use to anyone and you worry about doing so. It would be better to not get others involved is all. It would be even better to make it from hydrazine sulfate or hydrate.

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 14:13

Tbh this is probably a really bad idea buying a small amount of this chemical is bad enough but buying a large amount like 500g will definitely get some dogs on your scent.

We have added these explosive materials to the List because their primary or common purpose is to function by explosion.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/atf/listofexp.htm

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 14:16

Quote: Originally posted by Blue Matter  

We


Ha ha, thats why it was your first post in this thread. You are a part of the authorities.

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 14:20

Haha that's funny cause if you actually looked at the link its a quote from there, how about you actually pay attention and read the post before throwing around accusations.

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 14:22

Sorry, it was not accusations, but more of a joke.

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 14:26

No problem was on edge because I been ridiculed multiple times on this thread because of my post count or "not being a established member"

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 14:31

Sorry, don't overreact. Here on sciencemadness, we need to be really careful with member with low post counts, because a) they could be minor or especially good at hurting themselves. And b) They could be the authorities trying to catch us, even if we do nothing illegal, or that could harm others.

Especially when your first post is about buying sodium azide.

[Edited on 23-6-2013 by plante1999]

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 14:35

I have actually been lurking on this site for around 2 years just never felt a need to make a account until a few days ago saw the post and jumped on it as sodium azide is farely difficult to make.

malford - 23-6-2013 at 15:00

Blue Matter -- what a clever pun for FBI!

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 15:13

Quote: Originally posted by malford  
Blue Matter -- what a clever pun for FBI!


undercover for 2 years fyi

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 19:35

You undercover agent!

So, if I buy some, is there still member interested in aquiring it?

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 19:54

I would be interested but I am going to be out of town for 2 weeks so order it and maybe hold 50g for me :)

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 20:00

Due to the risks associated with buying it, I will ask 0.5$ gram + shipping. Take note that I am in canada, so shipping is about 10$

[Edited on 24-6-2013 by plante1999]

Blue Matter - 23-6-2013 at 20:02

Getting it through customs would probably be quite difficult wouldn't it?

plante1999 - 23-6-2013 at 20:07

There should be no problem with that, trust me, steel pieces always pass the customs...

Be sure reagentshop probably don't tell it is sodium azide on the package.

woelen - 23-6-2013 at 23:07

I certainly would not ship sodium azide internationally without stating the contents of the package. Just handle this as a dangerous good in excepted quantity. It requires a so-called E-sticker and most likely 25 grams of the solid can be shipped that way without any hassle. If the parcel is intercepted and you did not state the nature of the material, then you'll have big trouble.

I myself ordered 50 grams of thallous nitrate this way, from the USA to NL (Europe). It passed customs without any problem. On the outside of the parcel the E-sticker mentioned the compound by means of the UN-number of thallous nitrate. The shipping was increadibly fast and not expensive at all, I did not have to pay high hazmat fees.

The european seller (APC pure) which you mentioned, also uses legal shipping and includes labels on the outside of the package! In this case it was ADR-shipping for road and boat transport. I think sodium azide can be shipped according to IATA rules and then it can go by air, which is much faster. I ordered HF (48%) from APC and again, no problems with shipping at all.

I do not know that Japanese seller. I see that they sell many chemicals. It looks legit and it has decent prices, but I do not know how they ship their chemicals. If I were to order something from them I would really want them to have the chemicals shipped according to IATA regulations.

[Edited on 24-6-13 by woelen]

plante1999 - 24-6-2013 at 03:53

Well, on ebay they have hundred of good feedback. I even saw a US guy that had baugth 500g RP for 120$, and he was an happy customer, so yea, pretty sure they put something else on the label.

As for shipping hmm, I will think to it.

[Edited on 24-6-2013 by plante1999]

woelen - 24-6-2013 at 04:30

If you buy through eBay, then it does not matter what is on the label of the parcel. Each eBay-transaction in principle can be known by US official agencies. Of course, eBay has a special web-API, giving access for USA-agencies and they can simply query that API to find out who purchased what, at any time. Not only eBay has such an API, every large publicly available software system with millions of users has such an API. Simply because of the huge number of transactions, not every bottle of red P will be "handled" by official agencies, but if they want to, then they can. It is just a matter of priorities for them. If the same person buys multiple bottles of red P in a certain time frame, or buys certain other chemicals in the same time frame, then it _may_ lead to manual investigations.


[Edited on 24-6-13 by woelen]

plante1999 - 24-6-2013 at 06:08

Some chemicals are only on there website, mostly the very suspicious ones or that do not fallow shipping law.

malford - 24-6-2013 at 06:25

woelen,

Do you have source for the government software APIs. I would very much like to read more on that.

woelen - 24-6-2013 at 06:50

Of course there are no well-document sources, but given the reality of this time, it is very hard to believe otherwise. Every large system (eBay, Facebook, Google+, Twitter, telecom operations, file upload sites, etc.) has such an API, only available to governments or special departments inside governments. It would be naive to believe otherwise. Technically these API's are nothing special, just plain REST-API's, which spit out their contents in XML or JSON or CSV or whatever suitable easy to use format.

Blue Matter - 24-6-2013 at 06:54

Isn't this API you speak of the little bar code on the right side of your package? Also malford did you get my U2U

plante1999 - 27-6-2013 at 15:22

Just found they also had an ebay listing for the azide:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sodium-Azide-Reagent-98-0-500g-/33094...

If I buy any, I will only offer to canadian member, and I will probably be obligated to sell 250g of it.

S.C. Wack - 27-6-2013 at 17:36

BTW "LE inquiry" includes unintentional detonation of Pb-dextrinated-or-not azide resulting in sudden and full attention if not death, and uh, large fireworks that are discovered for one reason or another. Whatever the intent, though conversion to the lead salt by the actors here is assumed if not admitted, could some formal documented Google-indexed group buy end up in civil court somehow? Perhaps selling azide to Jack Shit has potential for more liability nowadays than other hazardous chemicals have, at least with US juries?

Blue Matter - 18-8-2013 at 18:06

Saw this on ebay today any thoughts?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/sodium-azide-/271254175633?pt=UK_BOI...

plante1999 - 18-8-2013 at 18:24

try it, looks ok.

Blue Matter - 18-8-2013 at 18:29

Did you ever buy the 500gs you were talking about?

plante1999 - 18-8-2013 at 18:42

Not yet.

woelen - 18-8-2013 at 23:27

Quote: Originally posted by Blue Matter  
Saw this on ebay today any thoughts?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/sodium-azide-/271254175633?pt=UK_BOI...

Seller looks OK, but I would not buy this if you are not in Europe (seller is in Hungary). There is a good chance that customs intercept this material and I can imagine that this may lead to trouble at the receiving side.
Only if the material is shipped according to IATA safety rules, then I would order it from outside Europe, but if I look at the price for shipping this material to the USA, then I don't think it is shipped according to IATA rules.

It is also very peculiar that he ships worldwide, except to Hungary (this is explicitly excluded).


[Edited on 19-8-13 by woelen]

Pulverulescent - 19-8-2013 at 02:28

And on checking his top-rated feedback one finds a lot of it is from sellers rather than buyers . . .

Blue Matter - 19-8-2013 at 14:08

found this today if anyone wants a smaller quantity of azide for a pretty good price.

http://www.chemsavers.com/search.php?search_query=azide

malford - 23-8-2013 at 19:09

Quote: Originally posted by Blue Matter  
found this today if anyone wants a smaller quantity of azide for a pretty good price.

http://www.chemsavers.com/search.php?search_query=azide

My invention which required the rapid production of gas no longer has any plans to use sodium azide or lead azide, obviously because of the illegality or restrictedness of these substances. I wish this thread would be closed or deleted because I no longer am attempting to source sodium azide. There are much better, easier and less risky substitutes.

plante1999 - 27-11-2013 at 16:45

I just got hold of a good quantity of sodium azide. I'm planning to make aniline with benzoic acid when I will get some. Also aziridine. Any one got other ideas?

woelen - 2-12-2013 at 07:23

Aniline from benzoic acid with sodium azide? Whast route is used for that?

Marvin - 2-12-2013 at 09:02

Initially I thought Curtius rearrangement but on review there is a variation called the Schmidt reaction.

plante1999 - 2-12-2013 at 09:14

Marvin is right, the reaction seams pretty straigthforward and worth a try, when I will get old of some more benzoic acid.

plante1999 - 19-1-2014 at 12:03

I just found a reasonably priced source for small amount of sodium azide for interested:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sodium-azide-NaN3-25g-/221313569690?p...

Mailinmypocket - 19-1-2014 at 12:22

That's funny, I purchased that exact item from the same seller about a month ago. No complaints at all, they're legit :)

plante1999 - 19-1-2014 at 13:00

How was it labeled?

Mailinmypocket - 19-1-2014 at 13:23

As sodium azide, formula, m.w. etc. They didn't include an msds, most eBay sellers don't...

caspertfg - 20-1-2014 at 20:18

Anyone do think I paranoid to not want order from guy who sells 1,4butanediol and (!) p2np (!) ? Penalty in my country very cruel for crank make.

Blue Matter - 21-1-2014 at 07:03

I am almost possitive it is illegal to ship sodium azide through several differnt mail carriers I don't remember which ones or why. I currently am busy and can't use computer could someone inform me about these laws?

numos - 22-2-2014 at 17:05

I've heard that the airbag mechanism in cars use sodium azide to produce nitrogen to inflate the airbags. Not sure if this is obsolete, but if you can get to a junkyard perhaps it's possible to salvage some. Probably not more than a few grams per airbag, if that.

Might also be dangerous to find/take it apart. :/

Mailinmypocket - 22-2-2014 at 17:22

Not sure if you have junkyards like this where you are from, but here we have one that sells basically anything you can yank out of old cars. I've gotten some sodium azide from two of them last year... Didn't weigh how much though, I'll have to do that.

Only 20$ each :)
http://www.kennyupull.net/pricelist.php

Brom - 20-10-2016 at 16:43

Surprisingly I came across sodium azide. I had to pick it up immediately because i have never seen it for sale before and thought it was hard to get. And this stuff is 98% pure and only $25 for a 100 grams. If any one wants to know where to get it u2u me.

Dr.Bob - 20-10-2016 at 18:10

The older cars had sodium azide, some of the newer ones use ammonium nitrate mixes, those are the ones that can go "bad" over time and either not go when desired, or go off unexpectedly. The challenge is that they absorb water over time and reactions start taking place in the mixture. That is not a good thing in general. So they are changing them again.

Brom - 20-10-2016 at 18:44

I planned on going the airbag route but considering the price and hassle of taking them apart i went for the online purchase as soon as i saw it. I wonder how many grams of NaN3 would be in an airbag. And i think it is mixed with chemicals to react with the metallic sodium byproduct of decomposition.

greenlight - 20-10-2016 at 18:49

It is a pain in the ass to take them apart.
The one I used contained about 50 grams of pellets.
The sodium azide is mixed with potassium nitrate and there is also black metallic gunk that needs to be filtered off after it is dissolved in a solution for use. I don't know what it is but it sticks to stirbars.

Maroboduus - 3-11-2016 at 15:47

Currently available from Hi-Media on Amazon

100 grams for $17 and change

100 grams A R $20 and change

Anybody know what the reporting threshold is for this stuff?

greenlight - 4-11-2016 at 05:26

Another user posted a picture of a bottle they received of NaN3 from this company the other day on the last chemical order thread.

I don't know the reporting threshold as it would vary from country to country but it would be on most places security concern chemicals lists.

Sodium Azide

tomholm - 4-11-2016 at 19:26

Sodium Azide is available from Elemental Scientific as Special Order. Really no problems shipping small quantities via FedEx or UPS. It is shipped as hazardous and requires special permit to ship, but can be done.