Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Copper electroplating non-conductive material with PC power supply?

Copper electroplating non-conductive material with PC power supply?

Hockeydemon - 6-6-2013 at 04:06

Just finished up a unit on electrochemistry in school, and I was reading around about electroplating. The other day I happened to find a lady friend that tickles my fancy. Put two and two together, and we have ourselves a project hahaha.

The chick has a bunch of sand dollars, and seashells. I'd like to electroplate a few with copper.

That being said I'm starting from scratch on everything.

Power Supply:
I'm certain I have an old PC somewhere at my parent's house I can snag on my way home from work tomorrow. I might also have a trickle charger for a car batter (plugs straight into 120V outlet). If this is preferable let me know, and I'll look for it.

Moving forward with the PC for the power supply unit. Which voltage wire would I want for the electroplating 5v 12v...? I was thinking about picking up a little project box from radioshack and running it all through there so it is neat & tidy.

Lacquer
I know I need to seal these in a lacquer. What kind of sealant should I use? Just some generic clear polyurethane lacquer? Could I just dip the material into a can of it, let it dry, and do this a few times? Or do I need to go through the trouble of gently hand applying it?

conductive paint
What should I use as the conductive paint to apply to the lacquer layer? Would a graphite paint use for PCB etching work? Or should I go about buying some silver paint from somewhere?

plating
When plating copper to the materials how should I go about it? Should I use a copper sulfate solution along with dilute sulfuric acid as my solution? For the anode can I just use random copper wire or piping from homedepot?

Then I just hook everything up flip the on switch and wait?

Hockeydemon - 6-6-2013 at 04:49

It just occurred to me that my roommate just acquired a couple arc welders, and a couple plasma cutters. I have no idea if they are AC or DC I'll have to go find out, but how hard would it be to set that up for electroplating?

DrSchnufflez - 6-6-2013 at 04:53

For the electroplating you should use acidified copper sulfate solution with some thiourea added as a leveling agent - without it you would probably end up with a dendritic copper sponge.
Good luck

Finnnicus - 6-6-2013 at 05:37

I don't know much of this, but woelen's tutorial for ATX Units is here.

Oh, and test the arcwelders, find out what they pull.

Hockeydemon - 6-6-2013 at 07:28

The power source is no longer a problem. I completely forgot my parents have a large car charger - I grabbed it this morning. It can do 12A, 40A, and 100A charges. There are some other features on it I'll post when I bother looking at the thing.

So now the question is moved towards what kind of solution, and what can the anode be? I don't know the equation either - doesn't the surface area of the anode & cathode factor in relative to the amps?

papaya - 6-6-2013 at 10:56

Anode must be made of copper (it'll dissolve and be transferred to the cathode),exact composition of electrolyte must be taken from some guide/specialized book, but it is expected to be CuSO4+H2O+H2SO4+some C2H5OH in certain concentrations, current density is an important factor (A/cm2) and voltage must be taken the minimum possible (less heating), fine tuning parameters during experiments.. (NO never did it seriously)

Hockeydemon - 10-6-2013 at 03:48

I have a large car battery charger that runs 12v/10amp,40amp & 100amp charges (It is possible the 10amp runs at 6v but I need to check). The total surface area of the sand dollar is ~14-20sq".

I was going to seal the sand dollar in Rust-Oleum Specialty 11 oz. Specialty Lacquer Spray Paint from home depot. It is highly resistant to acid, and should provide a nice protective coat (suggestions?). I was going to make the sand dollar conductive by picking up some PCB (circuit board) graphite paint (or silver?) from radioshack. I was going to comprise my electrolyte solution using this stoichiometric ratio: 1.25 CuSO4· 5 H2O + .467 H2SO4 (Source of stoichiometry) - diluted with DI water to 1L. I was going to use copper piping for the anode - would you suggest a bath in sulfuric acid in order to clean up possible impurities? I was going to use stump removed for my source of copper(II) sulfate - should I make an attempt to purify this before hand or would using a 'dummy cathode' initially suffice?

Assuming all of that sounds reasonable.. I need to figure out how many/what kind of bulb system I should have - if one is even needed. Suggestions would be much appreciated.

DrSchnufflez - 10-6-2013 at 03:59

You could even seal the dollar then plate it with a chemically deposited amount of silver. Nurdrage has a video on this. I can't remember the name of the reaction but it chemically deposits a fine layer of silver onto anything immersed in it.

phlogiston - 10-6-2013 at 06:04

I think all of the power supplies you describe are overkill. For such small objects, you'll need a few amps at most. Make sure to find out what the current density should be (amps/sq inch).
You should include a means to adjust the current in your setup to match the desired current density. The power supplies you describe are probably not very adjustable. One way to solve this is to vary the distance between your anode and cathode. More distance=more resistance=lower current. Because these items are not very flat, you will want to make sure they are not very close together though, since you would then get faster plating at the points of your object that are nearer the anode.

[Edited on 10-6-2013 by phlogiston]

Hockeydemon - 10-6-2013 at 13:00

Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston

I think all of the power supplies you describe are overkill. For such small objects, you'll need a few amps at most. Make sure to find out what the current density should be (amps/sq inch).
You should include a means to adjust the current in your setup to match the desired current density. The power supplies you describe are probably not very adjustable. One way to solve this is to vary the distance between your anode and cathode. More distance=more resistance=lower current. Because these items are not very flat, you will want to make sure they are not very close together though, since you would then get faster plating at the points of your object that are nearer the anode.

[Edited on 10-6-2013 by phlogiston]

I'm able to construct a pseudo-rectifier using light bulbs. I run the positive line through a board of light bulbs which are X watt & X volt which allows me to regulate what goes into the electrolyte solution. Or at least that was the impression I got when I read about it? I linked to it above - if I'm mistaken please let me know.

violet sin - 11-6-2013 at 23:43

why not try mixing in some graphite powder(door lock lubricant) in the sealant, for an all in one coating? you would have to make sure it was really fine or make it so your self. won't necessarily be good with just one coat but you get the idea, less chance of a thin or uneven conductive layer. the thinner you apply it the more detail you retain. that is if you don't have the ability to flash a thin coat on to start. good luck
-Violet Sin-

Hockeydemon - 12-6-2013 at 00:37

Quote: Originally posted by DrSchnufflez

You could even seal the dollar then plate it with a chemically deposited amount of silver. Nurdrage has a video on this. I can't remember the name of the reaction but it chemically deposits a fine layer of silver onto anything immersed in it.

This is interesting to me, but as a separate experiment. It would be pretty cool to deposit a bunch of silver onto some things. I wouldn't want to waste the silver by covering it up with copper though.

Can someone explain what is happening when you do this? It's similar to Tollen's reagent, but I'm not sure what is happening, or why there is sugar?

AgNO3 + NaOH + NH3 +C12H22O11 + heat?

What is causing the Ag+ ions to deposit on things? I am fearful that the lacquer will not stand up to the sodium hydroxide - though I only base this on the fact that it is an acid resistant lacquer & not caustic.

DrSchnufflez - 12-6-2013 at 13:59

You first have to precipitate the

DrSchnufflez - 12-6-2013 at 14:05

Sorry accidentally hit send instead of the keyboard (I'm on a tablet)
So you need to precipitate the AgNO₃ with some base to produce Ag₂O which is then dissolved in ammonia to form a complex. This complex is then reduced to silver which deposits out on to surfaces in the solution.

This procedure is all well and good but it deposits a brown layer of silver which is only mirror like when it is viewed through the object. For example if you plate some glass then the side with the plating will be light brown and when viewed from the other side it will be mirror like.

violet sin - 12-6-2013 at 15:51

Acid copper plating and additive composition therefor
http://www.google.com/patents/US4038161

'''17. An acid copper plating bath for producing level and bright copper coatings comprising per liter of bath, from about
a. 165 to about 250 grams of copper sulfate,
b. 45 to about 75 grams of sulfuric acid,
c. 0.03 to about 0.1 gram of chloride ions,
d. 0.001 to about 0.5 gram of a water-soluble leveling agent obtained by reacting epichlorohydrin with a substituted pyridine having the general formula ##STR13## wherein R is a lower alkyl, lower alkenyl, alkylene amine, mercapto, cyano, alkylene-4-pyridyl, --C(S)NH.sub.2, or a --CH═NOH group,'''

so it looks like you may be able to use pool algecide as a leveling agent. I don't have any thiourea as suggested above by Dr Schnufflez. having to keep up maintenance on my pool I remembered the algecide. it makes small drops/beads of water float around on the surface of the pool when you pour it in from any height. so no surprise it may affect the surface interface.

Captain* Liquid Copper Algaecide
http://www.sepro.com/documents/Captain_MSDS.pdf

Active ingredient:
Copper (II) Carbonate Basic 12069-69-1 15.9
Inert ingredient:
Proprietary Amine Proprietary 10 - 30
Proprietary Amine 2 Proprietary 10 - 30

looks like it complexes with the insoluble basic copper carbonate. I'm gonna have to give it a try some time. would be nice if it works, one less chem to buy. I may have to bust out the power supply.
-violet sin-

Hockeydemon - 12-6-2013 at 23:52

Violet Sin thank you! That is exactly what I wanted.

I too don't know how to get my hands on thiourea without paying quite a bit. I've been trying to find another leveling agent similar to the one you provided because it seems to only come in 1 gallon jugs for over $50.

I can't find anything with copper(II) carbonate, but I can find a few copper algaecides. What about an algaecide that is ~50% Triethanolamine complex with copper sulfate? I'd like to buy the smallest quantity possible since I don't need that much, and I don't own a pool.

---

DrSchnufflez: Is there no way around the brown silver layer?

Hockeydemon - 13-6-2013 at 01:30

So I have been looking around at electroless plating because I still like the idea of silvering some things for fun, but I more or less didn't find a solution to make a nice silver solution. There are different compositions such as using silver cyanide rather than silver nitrate, but I can't find much on it's aesthetic benefit.

I did stumble upon a detailed .pdf on electroless copper plating, but I can't bloody figure out if it is applicable to what I want it for. 90% of it is in regard to electroless plating of other metals. At the very end (pg322) it talks about non-conductive materials, and adhering a palladium or tin colloidal to the surface to induce the catalytic plating. The only reason electroless plating seems ideal is because it deposits a uniform coating rather than an uneven one like electroplating does.

DrSchnufflez - 13-6-2013 at 01:31

Thiourea is a common photochemical, well at least in Australia it is

violet sin - 13-6-2013 at 02:00

the one I have is actually "all-clear : green algecide". copper content is 7.4% and on the MSDS it says it is a mix of triethanolamine and monoethanolamine with copper carbonate (no percentages listed)... it's not the same one I listed above w/ the MSDS. it is the concentrate in about 1l bottle for 12 dollars at ACE. there is a smaller concentrate bottle for like 8.99$ but I haven't looked up the MSDS on that one yet. it is worth a try for only 9-13$. I am busy with other things at the moment but should try here in a day or two. still extracting K2CO3 from banana's for fun, ATM reducing ash leach sol to weigh soluble salt.

here is the MSDS for the 8.99$ concentrated bottle. sounds like the smaller one might fall more in line with the patent above.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/b7/b773641a-a240-...

----QUATERNARY AMMONIUM COMPOUNDS, BENZYL-C12-18-ALKY 13-17%
----Alkyl dimethyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chloride 13-17%

the patent I listed suggested some Cl- in sol and I seem to remember seeing a tip to clean copper bottom pots that supported the idea. when removing the tarnish from a copper pot, vinegar works slow. but if you add a pinch of salt it clears the surface almost immediately. the patent suggests a low concentration, 0.03 - 0.1g/l solution. nurd rage has a vid that shows the increase in activity, but he uses a LOT of salt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4N-iGvYrbM

this may help the leveling agent work more effectively and possibly prevent inclusions.
-Violet Sin-

edit- what is the thiourea used for there doc? like developer, fixer, etc..

[Edited on 13-6-2013 by violet sin]

[Edited on 13-6-2013 by violet sin]

DrSchnufflez - 13-6-2013 at 04:49

Not sure as I haven't got a darkroom but it's said to be used to tone silver based photos. It's also in some metal polishes I think, along with sulfamic acid

Hockeydemon - 18-6-2013 at 00:16

Okay so I ran an experiment earlier today, and it ended up being a bit of a failure. My electrolyte solution was 165g copper sulfate, 45g sulfuric acid, .1g sodium chloride diluted to a 1L solution.

I then sprayed a rock with conductive graphite paint, and let it dry. The anode was 18 gauge copper wire. I unfortunately only had copper wire for the cathode as well, but this was insulated so only copper wrapped around the rock was exposed to the solution. I ran this at 12v/2amp for a few minutes, and got bored so I bumped it up to 12v/40amp. This drastically increased the progress, but the only thing that was happening it the Cu(II) ions deposited on the exposed copper cathode. The reason why is obvious, but I was not really impressed with how it deposited either. It was a mushy copper dust that kind of just kept falling onto the same spot. There was no real depositing onto the rock at all, except maybe a grain of rice size spot under where the copper cathode wire was wrapped around.

I then abandoned the rock, and copper cathode entirely. I grabbed ribbon of staples for a staple gun (only readily available metal thing I found lying around). I used this as the cathode, and stuck with a 12v/2amp charge for awhile, and let it do it's thing. The copper deposited onto the ribbon of staples, but in essentially the same manner. It was easy to just wipe the brown/red copper dust that essentially coagulated onto the metal ribbon.

I did not add a leveling agent because I have not had a chance to get one.

Any suggestions based on the above?

watson.fawkes - 18-6-2013 at 03:10

Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon

I then sprayed a rock with conductive graphite paint, and let it dry. The anode was 18 gauge copper wire.

What's the resistance of your cathodes vs. the resistance of the graphite coating? Where will be current preferentially flow?

Either insulate the cathode from the electrolyte or don't submerge it in the first place.

Hockeydemon - 18-6-2013 at 03:16

Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes

I don't have a quantitative answer for the resistance of the cathode vs graphite coating. I know that the current preferred the cathode over the graphite coating. The cathode was just copper wire spooled around the graphite coated rock very tightly.

How can I insulate the cathode/not have it submerged, and the process still work? Wouldn't this prevent the entire system from working because the Cu(II) ions aren't being attracted to anything?

watson.fawkes - 18-6-2013 at 03:57

Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon

Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes

Either insulate the cathode from the electrolyte or don't submerge it in the first place.

I don't have a quantitative answer for the resistance of the cathode vs graphite coating. [...]
How can I insulate the cathode/not have it submerged, and the process still work? Wouldn't this prevent the entire system from working because the Cu(II) ions aren't being attracted to anything?

You can look up the material properties of graphite and copper and compare the conductivity.

I spoke hastily. You want to insulate the cathode conductor (previously: copper wire, staples) and make your coated rock the entirety of the cathode in electrical contact with the electrolyte.

phlogiston - 18-6-2013 at 04:32

As several people mentioned, the current density is important. You are depositing a large amount of copper on a tiny surface very quickly, and as a result you don't get a nice smooth coating but mush/powder.

Look up what it should be and regulate your power supply somehow. The idea with the light bulbs could work. You need to measure what current you are actually running through the cell.

Quote:

I ran this at 12v/2amp for a few minutes, and got bored so I bumped it up to 12v/40amp

You need to have more patience.

[Edited on 18-6-2013 by phlogiston]

papaya - 18-6-2013 at 12:06

Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon

Okay so I ran an experiment earlier today, and it ended up being a bit of a failure. My electrolyte solution was 165g copper sulfate, 45g sulfuric acid, .1g sodium chloride diluted to a 1L solution.

I then sprayed a rock with conductive graphite paint, and let it dry. The anode was 18 gauge copper wire. I unfortunately only had copper wire for the cathode as well, but this was insulated so only copper wrapped around the rock was exposed to the solution. I ran this at 12v/2amp for a few minutes, and got bored so I bumped it up to 12v/40amp. This drastically increased the progress, but the only thing that was happening it the Cu(II) ions deposited on the exposed copper cathode. The reason why is obvious, but I was not really impressed with how it deposited either. It was a mushy copper dust that kind of just kept falling onto the same spot. There was no real depositing onto the rock at all, except maybe a grain of rice size spot under where the copper cathode wire was wrapped around.

I then abandoned the rock, and copper cathode entirely. I grabbed ribbon of staples for a staple gun (only readily available metal thing I found lying around). I used this as the cathode, and stuck with a 12v/2amp charge for awhile, and let it do it's thing. The copper deposited onto the ribbon of staples, but in essentially the same manner. It was easy to just wipe the brown/red copper dust that essentially coagulated onto the metal ribbon.

I did not add a leveling agent because I have not had a chance to get one.

Any suggestions based on the above?

What NaCL is doing there? Not an expert, but have heard chlorides ruin the process. Also it seems CuSO4 conc. is still small and you can add some ethanol (vodka) into your solution instead of other hard to get organics(it'll prevent copper from oxidizing, whitener). Don't ask if I tried myself - no..

violet sin - 18-6-2013 at 22:29

Papaya- the chloride was mentioned in the patent I linked a ways up thread. Check it but they Recommended a full formula in it. And I believe explained the reason as I half as expounded also.

Hockeydemon- you ever think of setting a pedestal in the sol. To bring the plated item up to surface height? Perhaps if the item was barely submerged, covered in the graphite paint, and had the copper current carrier just touching the wetted surface, your plateing would be restricted to the graphitized surface? You could always buff the point of contact for a better finished piece. With a sand dollar seem like this approach would fit the geometry well no? Only foreseeable draw back- if bubbles or other convection activities didn't move the solution enough the copper would be depleted in that given strata and might lead to dendritic downward growth.

I say that because I had copper and sulfuric acid but no copper sulphate one time, and used height desparity of the electrodes and the density of the copper sulphate sol. to limit plate out.

Hockeydemon - 19-6-2013 at 00:44

I like your idea Violet Sin - I'm going to set it up so I can just set the negative clamp right on the rock with only the rock submerged. I will also be more patient, and run 12v/2amp for a long period of time to see what happens. I'll give it a go sometime tomorrow probably.

I might make up a few various electrolyte solutions, and scale it down to 250-500mL to see which gives better results.

Would it be inadvisable to wire it all up to as a single system? For example: 3 beakers with various electrolyte solutions in a row with a straight piece of copper wire for the anode sitting atop all 3 beakers with another piece of copper wire going into the electrolyte solutions attached to the straight one at each beaker? Same for the cathode?

alligator clip->(+)---|---|---|
alligator clip-> (-)---|---|---|
..................................U..U..U
The (|) being the copper submersed into the beaker (U), and the (--) being the wire running from the power source.

Would there be any issue with the amp/volt being less at the third beaker vs the first beaker? I mean at least in regards to possible product difference. I would keep the system as short as possible (the distance of 3-4 beakers).

[Edited on 19-6-2013 by Hockeydemon]

Fantasma4500 - 19-6-2013 at 06:52

i have discovered that i was capable of covering my steel spatula (probably 316, 410 or 420 steel) in copper by getting it in contact with CuCl2 with HCl in it
sometimes it appears nothing has happened and when fine sandpaper is run across it you can see shiny pink copper surface, this is however not very good for chemistry as copper reacts easily with many things

phlogiston - 19-6-2013 at 13:19

Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon

Would it be inadvisable to wire it all up to as a single system? For example: 3 beakers with various electrolyte solutions in a row with a straight piece of copper wire for the anode sitting atop all 3 beakers with another piece of copper wire going into the electrolyte solutions attached to the straight one at each beaker? Same for the cathode?

alligator clip->(+)---|---|---|
alligator clip-> (-)---|---|---|
..................................U..U..U
The (|) being the copper submersed into the beaker (U), and the (--) being the wire running from the power source.

Would there be any issue with the amp/volt being less at the third beaker vs the first beaker? I mean at least in regards to possible product difference. I would keep the system as short as possible (the distance of 3-4 beakers).

Your description essentially says you will connect the beakers in parallel.
In that case, the voltage across the three beakers will be the same, but the current through each beaker will be different (mainly depending on electrolyte composition, distance anode/cathode and submerged surface area).
Unless you use a very thin copper wire or one of the cells draws a huge current the voltage across all three cells will be 12V.

Cheap (5 euro) multimeters are available that can measure currents to 10A with sufficient accuracy for this purpose. Get one, it'll come in handy in all kinds of projects in the future.

[Edited on 19-6-2013 by phlogiston]

violet sin - 20-6-2013 at 01:10

while getting back into chem I was experimenting with copper and making it's colorful salts/solutions, I did a lot of electrochem. in one case I was doing the epsom salt electrolysis for Cu(OH)2. being unhappy with the slow yield I tried doing multiple containers in series and parallel but had little knowledge of how it was affecting my outcome. I mean I saw the effects but didn't really understand why. since then I have read a lot more in both chem & electronics. looking back I realize multiple batches in series just had too much resistance to push through with out the electrodes being quite close. that often lead to short path dendrites bridging the electrodes n trying to boil my bath. also if one messes up( too far apart) the others don't get juice( or too much if shorted). in parallel they kinda have an additive effect of a larger single electrode but its not that simple on a per bath basis as stated directly above by phlogiston. it can be a nice way to fine tune surface area/amperage ratio if you have several small items to plate and a fixed current/voltage PSU though. instead of buying an expensive tunable bench-top power supply.

I'm not saying I think you are lower skill level than I so don't take it that way. I just meant I tried a lot before I got a solid feel for it. (still working on the FULL understanding). not much beats hands on. I understand you are trying to finish a project and are probably on a schedule so that exp may have to wait. what size are the sand-dollars you were aiming to finish? and are they the standard white kind with the 5 pointed star kinda thing on 'em? if so I have a few kicking around the house so I could give it a go also n compare notes. I am planning on plating the red top side of an abalone shell soon anyhow. gonna mask off the interior rainbow portion.

also I have heard that in a home project setting a low current and patients were the key to nice shiny items. when I was a kid my father gold plated something ( think it was ham radio related ) and it took nearly a week(at least 5 days). but in the end it had a really nice finish. came in a kit with a small power cord that had the black box type stepdown transformer DC output at the wall plug in. it only put out a few hundred miliamps IIRC, don't remember the voltage. but then again I got nice shiny Ni plated on graphite electrodes with the same power supply I was doing Cu sol no problem. copper came off as a sponge most the time as I was interested in getting it IN solution, not out.

Hockeydemon - 20-6-2013 at 01:17

I went ahead and threw up a video of what I'm working with on YouTube. I didn't make up 3 electrolyte solutions - just one. I tried keeping the cathode's copper wire outside of the solution, and only submerging the graphite rock.

I got a small ring of copper to deposit on the rock. The ring formed where the rock came out of solution. I let it sit in there for some time, but I am skeptical that the circuit was even complete when the rock was submerged. I say this because I cranked the thing amps up to 200 (because I doubted the circuit was complete), and nothing happened in the solution. This should have produced dramatic degradation of the copper anode, and significant heating of the solution.

I'll play around with it more though.

http://youtu.be/NhRBUWqfbZ0

I still want to know how to get the copper to plate regular things though. Such as the Allen wrench I tried to plate in the video. I left that on a 2amp trickle charge for 10-15mins, and you can see the results.

Hockeydemon - 20-6-2013 at 01:28

Quote: Originally posted by violet sin

I'm not saying I think you are lower skill level than I so don't take it that way. I just meant I tried a lot before I got a solid feel for it. (still working on the FULL understanding). not much beats hands on. I understand you are trying to finish a project and are probably on a schedule so that exp may have to wait. what size are the sand-dollars you were aiming to finish? and are they the standard white kind with the 5 pointed star kinda thing on 'em? if so I have a few kicking around the house so I could give it a go also n compare notes. I am planning on plating the red top side of an abalone shell soon anyhow. gonna mask off the interior rainbow portion.

also I have heard that in a home project setting a low current and patients were the key to nice shiny items. when I was a kid my father gold plated something ( think it was ham radio related ) and it took nearly a week(at least 5 days). but in the end it had a really nice finish. came in a kit with a small power cord that had the black box type stepdown transformer DC output at the wall plug in. it only put out a few hundred miliamps IIRC, don't remember the voltage. but then again I got nice shiny Ni plated on graphite electrodes with the same power supply I was doing Cu sol no problem. copper came off as a sponge most the time as I was interested in getting it IN solution, not out.

I am definitely a lower skill level haha - no offense taken. I know it will take some toying around with to get results that I am happy with. I'm not really on any deadline for the project - I'm on summer vacation. I went to the beach and grabbed a bunch of sand dollars for a few girls I knew, and then had the idea to electroplate them. So I asked for them all back, and told them I hope to return them better than they were originally. There is no real rush - the only thing is my financial limitations.

They're ~14-20sq" sand dollars - just your average run of the mill PNW sand dollar (roughly the size of a cookie). I might abandon my large car battery charger, and try using a black DC plugin that I have laying around, and attach some alligator clips to it.

violet sin - 22-6-2013 at 00:45

hey so I did a little experiment as promised. I didn't really invest too much time doing this, and I used a broken abalone shell instead of a sand dollar. but as you can see in places it plated very nicely, and in others it sloughed off but a coating was left to work with. some places were resistant to plating all together because of the increasing surface area of new copper vs. graphite. partialy b/c I didn't have a great container to do this with, nor did I add a larger surface area copper sheet to match shell plating in surface area. distance between the cathode and anode were poorly moderated as I had to hold the bath at an angel to keep the cathode out of sol.

I used 21.00g CuSO4*4H2O, 6.00g H2SO4 (copper contaminated badly), ~3ml algecide, 4 drops of dish soap and ~100ml DH2O. (forgot to add salt at the last second)

the power supply for this was 10v 500ma direct current output stepdown type power cord for a radio or something random.

the shell was coated inside and out with clear fingernail polish. a second coating was applied and while the top was tacky freshly mortar ground graphite was tapped on by finger. it was door lubricant that had a few chunky bits so the mortar and pestal for good measure. this was in no way well done nor even coating.

Untitled.bmp - 565kB

the lower middle section has bad lighting but is bright.

this is the inside with sloughing resist of fingernail polish. but no copper deposited here even though I had the anode holding the shell above sol surface from under there.

the tupperware was tilted to reveal part of the shell as I suggested up thread. copper current carrier kept above solution. I had to reposition the shell a few times to try and coax the copper to that side. but I did note that while doing this it was still plating in the opposite side of shell from both electrodes oddly and some times brightly.( when it was plating brightly elsewhere)

poor.bmp - 791kB

the lower right'ish side here took it quite poorly. it was covered in a decently thick copper sponge. and above that it didn't even sponge over. but you couldn't see it in the other pic b/c of glare.

all in all when I got the spacing right and had the surface of the sol the proper distance from the cathode you could visibly watch shiny copper plating on the graphite. a rich shiny coat in mere minutes. as I moved the electrodes around it would affect the plating and throw spongy layer on the shiny and visa versa. so this could easily be applied to your shells if it was done as follows...

A) in a better bath container with a sufficient volume of plating solution and size to space out electrodes.
B) under proper control of distance between electrodes as well as surface area matching of plating coat and anode.
C) and if the shell was prepped satisfactorily even with a more resistant resist. (plated portion doesn't fall off, just masked non graphite side)

hope this helps. I would also suggest holding the shells out of sol by alligator clip or similar on the end of the cathode current carrier, only submerging the intended area. but keep at least 50% of the shell under sol. not just ramming a couple pieces of copper in a power cable and trying to manipulate the tub in one hand and both electrodes with the other hand...

-Violet Sin-

Random - 4-7-2013 at 13:38

Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon

Quote: Originally posted by DrSchnufflez

I think it was silver mirror reaction video

Hockeydemon - 7-7-2013 at 23:44

Hey Violet sorry for the delayed response! Your instructions, and pictures are awesome! I've tinkered a little bit more with everything, and I've gotten better results, but no where near what is in your pictures. I'll post a video here within the next couple days to show what I'm getting.

For whatever reason I'm only getting the copper to plate right on the surface of the water? For example I submerge a quarter of the sand dollar standing vertically, and only a ring of copper forms right were the sand dollar first comes in contact with the solution. It doesn't plate at all to the part of the sand dollar that is fully submerged.

I'm going to try to find a different power source again because I think that is a large part of the issue. Maybe I'll try some 9v batteries this time. I've been scrounging around the house looking for some small DC converter, but I just moved so much of the misc junk I had I tossed.

Anyways tyvm for the help you've provided thus far.