Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Does Iron Nitrate And Iron Acetate thermally decompose to Fe2O3?

Does Iron Nitrate And Iron Acetate thermally decompose to Fe2O3?

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 30-5-2013 at 05:17

Does Iron Nitrate And Iron Acetate thermally decompose to Fe2O3?

Does C14H27Fe3O18 and Fe(NO3)3 thermally decompose to Fe2O3?

woelen - 30-5-2013 at 06:46

Most oxoacid salts of iron(III) indeed decompose to Fe2O3 if heated strongly. Some salts decompose more easily than others. E.g. the nitrate easily decomposes, the sulfate is harder to decompose, the phosphate is very hard to decompose, because it produces non-volatile phosphorus compounds.

I do not know what C14H27Fe3O18 is, but if this is some long-chain carbon acid salt of iron(III), then I expect this to finally leave a residue of Fe2O3 as well when it is strongly heated. The reducing properties of the hydrocarbon chain may result in lower oxidation state products as well. Most likely you'll get a non-stoichiometric mix of iron(II,III) oxide.

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 30-5-2013 at 07:45

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

Most oxoacid salts of iron(III) indeed decompose to Fe2O3 if heated strongly. Some salts decompose more easily than others. E.g. the nitrate easily decomposes, the sulfate is harder to decompose, the phosphate is very hard to decompose, because it produces non-volatile phosphorus compounds.

I do not know what C14H27Fe3O18 is, but if this is some long-chain carbon acid salt of iron(III), then I expect this to finally leave a residue of Fe2O3 as well when it is strongly heated. The reducing properties of the hydrocarbon chain may result in lower oxidation state products as well. Most likely you'll get a non-stoichiometric mix of iron(II,III) oxide.

Thank you,

C14H27Fe3O18 is Iron(III) acetate, do u know if i can make it by adding Iron powder into Acetic acid and H2O2 and heating it ?

ScienceSquirrel - 30-5-2013 at 08:05

And so it is;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferric_acetate

Fantasma4500 - 31-5-2013 at 03:08

''278 and 328°C''
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/00406031778...

by my experience metal acetates decomposes at a pretty decent temperature (calcium acetate = 160*C)
it produces the metal carbonate or oxide usually, as i understand it iron carbonate or more or less ustable, and at not that high temperatures it decomposes into Fe2O3 anyways..
plus you get the acetone

very interesting idea for rocket fuel.. or well so i suppose the reason for these questions are..

anyways for production you can try electrolysing acetic acid with iron cathode and anode..
iron oxide usually reacts decently with acids so strong acetic acid should do the job, if not add h2o2

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 31-5-2013 at 06:52

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat

''278 and 328°C''
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/00406031778...

by my experience metal acetates decomposes at a pretty decent temperature (calcium acetate = 160*C)
it produces the metal carbonate or oxide usually, as i understand it iron carbonate or more or less ustable, and at not that high temperatures it decomposes into Fe2O3 anyways..
plus you get the acetone

very interesting idea for rocket fuel.. or well so i suppose the reason for these questions are..

anyways for production you can try electrolysing acetic acid with iron cathode and anode..
iron oxide usually reacts decently with acids so strong acetic acid should do the job, if not add h2o2

why not H2O2 ?

Can i do eletrolysis of iron in acetic acid but only 7% ?

So u mean i cant just make iron acetate like how we make copper acetate ? for CA u just add copper into Acetic acid and h2o2 and boil to get the thing, why not for Iron ?

Fantasma4500 - 2-6-2013 at 05:39

Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat

well i would definately prefer to electrolyse it..
it makes the reaction much much faster!
just get some iron plates and fold them
then electrolyse some vinegar or stronger acetic acid with that, if you want it to go even faster you can add H2O2 to this also.. that would probably by logic be even faster..

you can also use electrolysis to heat up the solution to get it going fast, as temperature rises, the reaction rises in speed aswell

AJKOER - 11-6-2013 at 07:34

There are Youtube videos on the creation of Iron oxalate and its products on thermal decomposition, pyrophoric iron (literally catch fire in air, but chemically more likely nano-sized Fe/FeO, see http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pyrophoric%20... ).

Tartaric acid metal salts, upon thermal decomposition, may also prove to be valuable for pryotechnic mixtures.

However, these nano-sized metal/metal oxides are highly reactive and in combination with normally safe oxidizers, may become quite unsafe, and even sensitive explosives. An interesting reference, however, does describes the use of sol-gel technology to control some of the issues (see http://www.google.com/url?url=http://scholar.google.com/scho... ). However, after reading the reference, experimenting with nano-sized particles for energetic materials is possibly best reserved for a select group of researchers.

[Edited on 11-6-2013 by AJKOER]

Random - 11-6-2013 at 08:00

Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat

Basically you could put iron into copper acetate and get iron acetate by displacement reaction.

papaya - 11-6-2013 at 08:26

A question regarding salt preparation by electrolysis with metallic electrodes(many examples in youtube): why this works ? I mean what is lost at the anode should be reduced at the cathode, meaning that in theory you get no total effect. In reality if you halt electrolysis at some point the solution contains metal cations surely, I believe after some time from the start of the process a steady state will be achieved and concentration will stay constant, regardless further electrolysis it will not give more concentration. But the question is - what steady concentration you can achieve and more important - is there a way to calculate that?
Also can you overcome this by using a less reactive metal for the cathode that will prevent plating to some point, or could AC electrolysis also help ? (well AC is not necessarily 60/50Hz, most people think AC electrolysis is not possible at all, but if I swop the poles every 10 seconds this is also an example for AC and it will decompose water for sure )
Not sure this fits to current topic completely, may deserve a separate topic though...

jock88 - 12-6-2013 at 02:09

May be useful