Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Soda and Illegal Drugs Cause Similar Damage to Teeth: Acids Erode Enamel

Hockeydemon - 29-5-2013 at 02:02

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130528122505.ht...

This sounds like total crap to me. Am I missing something?

I find it hard to believe that street produced methamphetamine & crack have the same acidity of pop. First crack is basic not acidic i.e 'free base'. To make crack you have to neutralize the hydrochloric acid molecule with a base - so why is it acidic? Methamphetamine is made with really strong acids such as sulfuric acid (they mention battery acid, & drain cleaner), it's Ka (anti-log of pH ) value is vastly greater than that of citric acid (a weak acid by definition). Then the article mentions lantern fuel (naptha) which is a hydrocarbon with no acidic properties.

Obviously pop is bad for your teeth it contains citric, and phosphoric acid which strips the hydroxylapatite (tooth enamel) from your teeth by neutralizing the hydroxyl group weakening your teeth. Hence we put fluoride into our toothpaste - the fluoride anion binds to the lapatite(-) molecule replacing the lost hydroxyl molecule strengthening your enamel.

"Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!"

Lambda-Eyde - 29-5-2013 at 03:41

I don't really see the problem? Of course you get similar damage to teeth by using street drugs and soda. They are both corrosive to teeth. The article doesn't mention anything about acidity or Ka.

Hockeydemon - 29-5-2013 at 04:06

Quote: Originally posted by Lambda-Eyde  
I don't really see the problem? Of course you get similar damage to teeth by using street drugs and soda. They are both corrosive to teeth. The article doesn't mention anything about acidity or Ka.


Quote:

"Each person experienced severe tooth erosion caused by the high acid levels present in their 'drug' of choice -- meth, crack, or soda," says Mohamed A. Bassiouny, DMD, MSc, PhD, lead author of the study.

"The citric acid present in both regular and diet soda is known to have a high potential for causing tooth erosion," says Dr. Bassiouny.

Similar to citric acid, the ingredients used in preparing methamphetamine can include extremely corrosive materials, such as battery acid, lantern fuel, and drain cleaner. Crack cocaine is highly acidic in nature, as well.


Yeah they are absolutely both corrosive to your teeth. This study just seems like crap - why are they being compared at all? Where are these people getting their meth? How much sulfuric acid residue is there? What does naptha have to do with anything? I thought by definition crack was not acidic? Why is soda corrosion not being measured in angstroms? I see no difference than someone saying "20 years of heavy crack use is similar to crushing your teeth with a hammer."

bbartlog - 29-5-2013 at 05:46

This isn't science. The author found three people with bad teeth and decided that his explanation of how it happened made a lot of sense. Now, to be fair, it's just a case study - so maybe it's not really *supposed* to be science in the first place so much as a detailed observation of one or more patients. But in that case Bassiouny should probably have kept his speculations about the causes of the decay to himself.

cyanureeves - 29-5-2013 at 06:00

i never knew how drugs mess up one's teeth but indeed some meth heads do lose their teeth.maybe hygiene is responsible for crack heads losing their teeth but i think meth does damage by ingestion.maybe the saliva carries some chemicals to the teeth or the blood because i have seen more meth heads without teeth than with rotted out teeth.i think the gums or jawbone start to lose their grip on the teeth for lack of nutirients and it's onset is rather rapid as i recall my teeth wobbled a bit when i would grab them with my hands.i dont know if hallucination has anything to do with teeth moving but i dont think so because it is common for loss of teeth among bath tub meth users.BTW i detest meth and i dont even consider it a real high plus i no longer have patience for meth users.

[Edited on 5-29-2013 by cyanureeves]

Polesch - 29-5-2013 at 06:10

I'm no expert on drugs myself, but I do think most of this is pure bullshit. I don't want to defend illegal drugs in any way, but I do not believe methamphetamine or cocaine cause any tooth decay. Smoking crack cocaine most likely would, however, but saying that "crack cocaine is highly acidic in nature" is hard to accept, simply by the fact that it is made by first neutralizing the cocaine (HCl salt?) in sodium bicarbonate. I would suspect the thermal decomposition products to be the corrosive culprit. With methamphetamine I would blame either impurities or simply the neglect of personal hygiene that often comes with substance abuse, and the diets that often follow.

I would like to hear other opinions on this though.

Bot0nist - 29-5-2013 at 06:11

I think the drug use issue with teeth is mostly neglect, poor hygiene, and poor nutrition/health. When a junkie is up for a 7 day binge on Ice, I doubt he remembers or cares to brush his teeth before bed. Also, I am sure malnutrition and sleep deprivation is the cause of many of the physiological and psychological harms of meth use. Including dental problems.

Organikum - 29-5-2013 at 08:32

And a shitty health-care system not to forget.

For decades in Europe one could recognize the english at their bad teeth. Now it has gone down in other countries too, thats globalisation I guess - bad teeth for everybody!

Magpie - 29-5-2013 at 10:04

Scare tactics aside, here's some info to chew on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth

Fantasma4500 - 31-5-2013 at 03:13

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Scare tactics aside, here's some info to chew on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth



doesnt look like they just got too lazy to brush their teeth..
i would say its legit.. anyways i dont get it..
about drugs, some say they want you to use drugs which makes great sense and yet not..
you will be so mentally far off that you will not realise changes and wont care at all
but you will be a really bad 'slave'
considering who would benefit from drugusers it might be that theyre using reversed psychology..

you know the button that says ''dont push'' (;

Organikum - 31-5-2013 at 04:02

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Scare tactics aside, here's some info to chew on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth

What am I glad that this obviously mainly affects americans :D
Methamphetamine is not new to the world, addiction to it neither, hey! a bigger part of the japanase workers after WWII was hooked! Meth_mouth and daterape are something I would prefer not to be exported albeit cultural imperialism will smear it over the face of this planet like McDonalds.

@ antiswat:
The problem is that those scare tactics never work out, its like diabolising hash and then kids try it and just laugh never to take care of good advice regarding drugs again. And thats the problem.
One of the most surprising facts I discovered when a long time ago I for some time indulged in forbidden fruits which speed you up a bit was, that the vast mayority of (meth)amphetamine users are normal people, with normal jobs, often selfemployed and very successful. With home and wife and kids and they were caring. And some scum with bad teeth. Those though were abusing about everything - they would have gotten fucked up anyways because they that was them.

But truely, amphetamines reduce saliva, cause a deficiency in vitamins and meth in special is hard on the dopamine receptors.
Infusing the merits of teeth-brushing, of supplements and in special of selene to protect the receptors into the heads of those using these drugs, thats whats needed. Information, telling the truth, reducing possible harm.
Everybody who takes a little care of himself will look at "meth-mouth" and say: Thats not me. Rightfully. And come to the conclusion that the other dangers of the drug dont refer to him too. Whats wrong, but thats how human brains work, very basic psychology.


Fight prohibition!
/ORG

Mildronate - 31-5-2013 at 04:09

To my mind its from meth smoking

Vargouille - 31-5-2013 at 10:06

Remember: Meth is sold on the street as methamphetamine hydrochloride, since pure methamphetamine (the "freebase") is a liquid at room temperature. That'll make it significantly acidic, which supports the pathway suggested by Bassiouny. As for crack cocaine, I'm not well-versed enough in the manufacture of the compound to be able to tell whether the pathway is viable.

Source: http://www.oehha.org/public_info/pdf/TSD%20Methamphetamine%20Meth%20Labs%2010'8'03.pdf

zed - 4-6-2013 at 14:45

Meth, caffeine, etc., may stimulate tooth grinding. Very bad for the teeth. Wears the enamel off of the chewing surfaces. Thereafter, the teeth are much more vulnerable to acid erosion.

What kind of acid erosion? Well, fruit-acid erosion is among the worst. Eating the fruit is very healthful. Your body likes it. The sugar and fruit-acid residues left on the teeth are very corrosive. So yes, fresh fruit is one of your best "fr-enemies" .

Diablo - 4-6-2013 at 21:39

Here's a pretty good article on it.
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/3-reasons-diet-soda-vs.-m...

crazyboy - 4-6-2013 at 22:02

Quote: Originally posted by Vargouille  
Remember: Meth is sold on the street as methamphetamine hydrochloride, since pure methamphetamine (the "freebase") is a liquid at room temperature. That'll make it significantly acidic, which supports the pathway suggested by Bassiouny.


The hydrochloride salt of methamphetamine is not acidic.

chemcam - 4-6-2013 at 22:14

Is there not a meth cook/user on this site with some pH paper? Would be nice to have data... :P

Vargouille - 5-6-2013 at 06:04

Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy  
The hydrochloride salt of methamphetamine is not acidic.


In normal circumstances, not significantly, no, but because it is sold as the hydrochloride, there will be significant acidic residue because few will take the extra work necessary to purify the compound. A study performed in South Africa found that much of the methamphetamine (about 73%) had enough acidic contaminant to contribute to enamel erosion. Also, it also states that the high temperature applied to the street meth liberates HCl:
Quote:
Methamphetamine is actually the hydrochloric (HCl) salt of methamphetamine because the synthesis includes the pumping of hydrochloric acid gas through the solution to crystallize the drug. If the crystals are then not purified, the hydrochloric gas is also trapped in pockets which will then dissolve and acidify the oral cavity. Furthermore, when the drug is smoked, the high temperature will easily set the hydrated hydrochloric acid molecule free from the above mentioned salt with the resulting acidification of the oral cavity.

Mildronate - 5-6-2013 at 09:17

bulshit just wash it.

zed - 7-6-2013 at 13:23

Dry mouth is a known destroyer of teeth.

The enamel of your teeth is constantly rejuvenated by minerals in your saliva.

High on speed=Dry mouth=No Saliva=Enamel problems.

british bad teeth

clockwerk - 15-6-2013 at 18:30

personally I put this down to artificial sugar consumption more refined sugar i guess bad wording.

Like queen elizabeth heralded as a heroin in english history had no teeth cos she would eat marizpam like there was no tomorrow i mean it is morish and its not like stinging nettles taste very good.


Organikum - 15-6-2013 at 20:56

Quote: Originally posted by chemcam  
Is there not a meth cook/user on this site with some pH paper? Would be nice to have data... :P


The ph is 7 - neutral, ever heard of titration? It is method which is very helpful when preparing salts of organic compounds, you maylearn it over the years or decades, dont worry.

There are though crude methods as for example often used by the czech, which leave residual HCl in the crystals water. A lot of other dangers and problems arise from the impurity of drugs which are illegalized, fall under the prohibition.

But it has to be said clearly that all problems related to impure drugs are solely to blame on the prohibition and not on the drug as is. The biggest part of the horrors which are depicted as deterrent would not exist if the users were able to get good quality for a decent price. Includes all criminality.
The perversity is that those who are guilty for the situation are pointing with fingers at it and demand harder measures.
I am talking of adults, thats understood.

Fight prohibition!
Legalize everything!

/ORG

maxpayne - 16-6-2013 at 19:07

Quote: Originally posted by Organikum  
Quote: Originally posted by chemcam  
Is there not a meth cook/user on this site with some pH paper? Would be nice to have data... :P


The ph is 7 - neutral, ever heard of titration? It is method which is very helpful when preparing salts of organic compounds, you maylearn it over the years or decades, dont worry.

There are though crude methods as for example often used by the czech, which leave residual HCl in the crystals water. A lot of other dangers and problems arise from the impurity of drugs which are illegalized, fall under the prohibition.

But it has to be said clearly that all problems related to impure drugs are solely to blame on the prohibition and not on the drug as is. The biggest part of the horrors which are depicted as deterrent would not exist if the users were able to get good quality for a decent price. Includes all criminality.
The perversity is that those who are guilty for the situation are pointing with fingers at it and demand harder measures.
I am talking of adults, thats understood.

Fight prohibition!
Legalize everything!

/ORG


I can only confirm (ph7) and agree with everything Organikum said.

This is just another BIG LIE like the NIDA in the past with "Your brain on Ecstasy" images and their maniac researcher George Ricaurte Falsified_article_on_toxicity_of_MDMA_on_dopamine_cells

They are just abusing those few images of rotten teeth and sad people depicted on it.

However, I can not say that methamphetamine is good for anyone who is abusing it (abnormal use). Tension and vasoconstriction caused by the prolonged methamphetamine use is really bad not only for teeth but every organ or part of the body where those capillaries have specific function (brain, liver, lungs, and especially kidneys).