Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Some AN mixtures tests

SherlockHolmes - 26-4-2013 at 04:36

These days I did some tests with AN mixtures. In all I used an intermediate charge of nitrocellulose smokeless powder detonated by 0.15g lead azide:

Here, test of two mixtures of the type "Dynamon". I use sugar and milk powder as fuels and some aluminum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp7GK18ihDk

Here I test the modified ammonal with 2% xylene, stronger than standard 90/10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKy-af9uYGw

This test complex composition of melted ammonium nitrate and methenamine with aluminum and copper oxide as a catalyst. I wrote about it in the forum. However, I accidentally overheat the mixture and power and drastically reduced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXO8kHtxEIE

This is a test of 7 kg ANFO on the ground which I did a few months ago. As Booster I put 60g. of smokeless gunpowder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbJYkJjmXkw

[Edited on 26-4-2013 by SherlockHolmes]

Fantasma4500 - 26-4-2013 at 08:07

impressive on the ANSUAl..
you should try comparing
95:5
90:10
85:10
ANSU

actually now i get to think about it i think theres a dynamon type called GRG-1 or is it GRG-2 that uses flour as the fuel

SherlockHolmes - 26-4-2013 at 09:05

Mixture only with ammonium nitrate and sugar is poor. For first time I hear about GRG-2. What it is, the last sentence you said did not understand?

Ral123 - 26-4-2013 at 10:38

What don't you like of AN/SU? It's more reliable then anfo.

SherlockHolmes - 26-4-2013 at 11:11

Yeah, but the mixture AN/Sugar/Al is not ANFO...

[Edited on 26-4-2013 by SherlockHolmes]

Fantasma4500 - 27-4-2013 at 04:25

Quote: Originally posted by SherlockHolmes  
Mixture only with ammonium nitrate and sugar is poor. For first time I hear about GRG-2. What it is, the last sentence you said did not understand?


well theres a tonne of vids on youtube if you search GRG-1 or GRG-2

but i agree with Ral123.. sugar dynamon is more reliable than ANFO.. i have seen as much as 1kg being set off with amounts of ap around 5g..

Ral123 - 27-4-2013 at 04:58

Oh you're talking about that russian guy? I know from that video also :D We both can't test big amounts, so only know from videos.

SherlockHolmes - 27-4-2013 at 05:12

5 g? See what makes Russian with 1 gram TATP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh3PDV6D6XM

Peroksit - 27-4-2013 at 05:49

Nice videos sherlock
Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
Oh you're talking about that russian guy? I know from that video also :D We both can't test big amounts, so only know from videos.


are you talking about this guy ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-7yffeZX30

Fantasma4500 - 29-4-2013 at 07:15

Quote: Originally posted by SherlockHolmes  
5 g? See what makes Russian with 1 gram TATP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh3PDV6D6XM


wow.. its really MANY MANY times better than ANFO, both by sensitivity and by the look power aswell
i like how the whole forest just jumps for a second..

Fantasma4500 - 29-4-2013 at 07:16

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
Oh you're talking about that russian guy? I know from that video also :D We both can't test big amounts, so only know from videos.


not sure if its the same.. theres tonnes of russians on tube..
the one im talking about is fesss83
sadly he didnt make a second account of what i know, and fesss83 is down :/

Bot0nist - 29-4-2013 at 07:35

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  

i like how the whole forest just jumps for a second..


That is the shakey camera man jumping, not the forest... I find this all intersting, but the scale of some of you all's "science experiments" scares the shit outta me...

SherlockHolmes - 29-4-2013 at 12:36

haha why?

Bot0nist - 29-4-2013 at 12:45

using a fuse fired, homemade cap, outta TCAP, for starters...
You would never catch me sticking an organic peroxide "blasting cap" into a blasting charge, thats for sure. The mere thought of this gives me cold sweats.

I have made many experiments with EM, and always (almost) limited myself to sub-gram quantities. Still enought to seriously maim me, Ill admit. And never TCAP. I fiddled with mls of MEKP, and once I got a taste of its sensitivity, I swore off all organic peroxides as initiators. So much better out there. Those blasting charges could blow you to the Darwin Awards... Be carefull friends. Be responsible, and plan fdor the WCS whenever handling any amount of EM.

SherlockHolmes - 30-4-2013 at 08:18

A long time ago I do not use organic peroxides. Just give an example. Video with 1.5 kg AN / PC is not mine. I use lead azide.

Bot0nist - 30-4-2013 at 08:54

I see that, and I wasn't singling you out over that, or at all really. Just that breaking trees like twigs and making man sized craters are way, way out of the scope and scale of my interests. That's all.

Lead azide's a better primary than TCAP, that's for sure...

[Edited on 30-4-2013 by Bot0nist]

Trotsky - 1-5-2013 at 17:04

After reading about Ammonium Permanganate I mixed slightly wet AN with KMnO4 and allowed it to sit for about 30 minutes. I proceeded to shoot it with a .223 (it'll set tannerite off, so I figured what the hell). The mixture partially detonated. The container that it was sitting in had no top. The front half of it was completely gone, but the back half was still present. At the bullets exit the plastic was interestingly scorched, but only scorched.. The bang it made was fairly weak. There was about 1/4lb of mix. It could be optimized and include Al powder, I'm sure, but I was a little disappointed. I did a test, heating this mix on foil, which caused it to make a jet-like whooshing noise and emitted lots of white smoke (smelled like N2O and NO2, color probably from water vapor), and I felt a bit dizzy afterwards), leaving behind a coral-like MnO2 clump.

I wonder if leaving it sit longer would have allowed more NH4MnO4 to form?

Bot0nist - 1-5-2013 at 18:39

On the partial detonation. I imagine only the small part of the mix that was struck and compressed by the bullet detonated and ruptured the container and blew the mix about. Sounds like the mix is sensitive enough, but your having issues with wave propagation. Your right to think to try and increase the your density. Do you worry about reactivity and stability issues with the permanganate in the composition? Storage of course is a no no, but also contact issues and spontaneous ignition.

[Edited on 2-5-2013 by Bot0nist]

Trotsky - 1-5-2013 at 18:49

Yes, that's exactly what happened. It was easy to see the tell tale purple stains in the wet soil and grass.

The mix was half powdered AN and half AN prills. I should have left the mix in a wrapped plastic bag instead of an open topped bottle (if you've bought a 1lb tannerite container, this was in the larger outside container that it comes in, not the smaller interior one).

I wasn't too worried because I made the mix up only 30 minutes before use and only 1/4lb. Upon mixing it released a strong scent of cat piss, but there was no noticeable gas formation- the bag it was in didn't swell at all. I poured it into the plastic container immediately before shooting.

I didn't worry about ignition- you can't get the stuff to burn. It did react exothermically when I was heating it, but it wasn't particularly energetic and ran itself out.

I have a lot of experience with KMnO4-containing pyrotechnic mixtures, as I did a series of experiments trying to make an acceptable KMnO4-based rocket propellant. Why? I had a lot of KMnO4 and not much KNO3 or AN. Unfortunately the burn tests left me inhaling a lot of Mn. Not good for the brain, you see. I talked about it in another thread involving rocket propellants. I think the best I ever got was KMnO4 + Powdered Polyethylene (I think it's PE, it was plastic I obtained from a clothes hanger). I even added KMnO4 to molten wax- carefully, of course. No reaction was had, and even a year later I still have a KMnO4/Wax motor in my shed. it's in a fire proof box, just in case, but it's shown no sign of instability, it doesn't even burn well, actually, I just noticed it today when I was making the AN/PP mix that I tried.



Question: What would be theoretical optimal ratio of AN to KMnO4? I just winged it, I added enough that when shook it up and mixed it together, there was a light purple throughout. I wanted the NH4HMnO4 to form and provide the initiation for the remaining AN.

Should a fuel be added to the mixture, too though? I tried making up a tiny mix with powdered sugar added to it, and it quickly turned brown, it was too easy for the KMnO4 to react with Fuel oil could work, I don't think the KMnO4 would react too rapidly with that. Perhaps powdered wax? That would be easy to press to get good density. Aluminum would probably work just fine but I know that ANAL will detonate from bullet strike just fine, I want to know that the mix is detonating because of the added KMnO4.

[Edited on 2-5-2013 by Trotsky]

Fantasma4500 - 2-5-2013 at 08:28

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  

i like how the whole forest just jumps for a second..


That is the shakey camera man jumping, not the forest... I find this all intersting, but the scale of some of you all's "science experiments" scares the shit outta me...


no no, it didnt jump ofcourse, but it looks like it i think when the pressure hits all the leaves and everything is put in motion (:

dont fear; educate

franklyn - 6-2-2014 at 01:04

Related thread

www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13928

.