Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Silly teacher.

Finnnicus - 21-4-2013 at 03:36

My biology teacher asked me to make my safety instructions more rigorous. We are 'exploring the effects of cleaning products on microbiological organisms', which means that all safety hazards must be kept in check. (I think I may have gone to far).
Quote:

• Petri dish should be kept sealed, even after disposal. Avoid contact, use safety equipment.
• Petri dish should be disposed of properly, by heating 120C+. Avoid contact, use safety equipment.
• Cultivating a potentially dangerous organism could be fatal if the petri dish is sealed inappropriately. Avoid contact, use safety equipment.
• Domestic cleaner and Ammonia give off fumes which are asphyxiating and nauseating. Also, potentially flammable in the right conditions. Avoid contact, use safety equipment.
• Domestic cleaner contains sodium hypochlorite, a poisonous and potentially deadly chemical. Avoid contact, use safety equipment.


Anyone have something condescending to add to this?
Ugh. I really should take a different this class, it never ceases to annoy me.

PS: Not sure if this belongs in Beginnings, since its related to school.

[Edited on 21-4-2013 by Finnnicus]

Hexavalent - 21-4-2013 at 04:24

When I did my chemistry coursework, we had to write up a full risk assessment of using hotplates, including thermal burns, electrical injuries, etc. Shocking. ;)

12AX7 - 21-4-2013 at 10:46

Don't forget to add mention of the general hazards of the chemicals. Do not smell, ingest, allow in contact with skin, eyes or mucous membranes, etc. Especially the ones which contain DHMO.

Tim

chemcam - 21-4-2013 at 10:56

If biologically enhancing small organisms with self-replicating nanobots be sure to program in a self-destruct sequence after X amount of time, in addition to a kill switch, should that fail. :cool:

elementcollector1 - 21-4-2013 at 10:59

In case of failure of assignment, please lie down and accept your imminent termination.

Finnnicus - 21-4-2013 at 18:40

Oh man, this is why I love this part of the Internet xD

nezza - 23-4-2013 at 13:22

We have to put up with bull***t like this all the time at work.

You could add -

Do not eat the agar - It has not been tested for toxins
Do not break petri dish in half and stab self in eye - This may cause serious injury

As I have been tempted to when writing risk assessments for morons.

Finnnicus - 23-4-2013 at 14:36

Actual LOL, like a real LOL.

Intergalactic_Captain - 24-4-2013 at 05:34

I would add one here;

-Material Safety Data (MSDS) Sheets for all materials utilized in this facility are inconveniently located and will prove to be confusing and ultimately misleading and useless at times of actual emergency. Should they be needed, promptly evacuate and notify the proper authorities.

...In school it really depended on what the people supervising you knew about YOU - I got off easy and was pretty much left alone - I made the time to talk to my TA's about a handful of outside stuff, at which point the realized I didn't need to be babysat... I usually got away with working alone (partners were the rule), justified when and why I didn't wear gloves (only when it really was THAT dangerous), and wrote up reports that put theirs to shame...

However, I'm on the flipside of that now - Last place I'd ever seen myself in life, but a job is a job - Here's a little tip the next time you go to walmart - Get the shit in the middle of a production run, and preferrably something made on first or second shift... The old Simpsons rule of "If I didn't see it, it's not illegal" is the law of the land - Yes, our QC procedures would make most peoples eyes bleed - But when it comes down to finishing an order, fitting in the weekly quota, or just saying fuck it and keeping shit running - Keep your blind faith in processed food, America - When every box of the same product you cook up tastes a little different, it's not just you - It really is just that that different minute to minute, day to day...

Eddygp - 24-4-2013 at 12:03

It often happens, that teachers make a mountain out of an anthill. In some cases it is just hilarious.

[Edited on 24-4-2013 by Eddygp]

zed - 3-5-2013 at 13:28

Well, I have a woman friend that is a biochemist. Used to work with some very scary organisms. Had a female supervisor that was congenial, but kind of lackadaisical about taking precautions. Was known to do things like eating a sandwich in the lab.

I'm not sure if she ever changed her ways, but coming down with a case of Herpes B, may have given her pause for thought. Herpes B, if you are not familiar with it, is a monkey Virus. About 80%lethal in humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_B_virus

[Edited on 3-5-2013 by zed]

BromicAcid - 3-5-2013 at 16:37

One of my classmates in college was notable for never putting cautions on his hood. Just before winter break he put a sign on his hood to the effect:
Quote:
Empty Glassware
-Do not break and stab in eye-

amazingchemistry - 3-5-2013 at 17:51

Well, procedures like this can be annoying but you have to keep in mind the purpose of them. In real-world situations, the purpose of writing detailed safety instructions is twofold:

1. To make sure that anyone repeating your experiment but not necessarily completely familiar with the hazards of doing it (as is the case of laboratory technicians implementing SOPs originally made by supervisors) can perform the experiment with a reasonable assumption of safety to themselves and others.

2. To cover your own butt. In case of a lawsuit resulting from an accident, you are much more likely to come out scot-free if you can show that you had clear, detailed instructions on how to perform the experiment safely and therefore the accident was likely the result of technician error.

I would add the following: "Read and understand the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) of all chemicals involved before performing the experiment." Boring, yes. But necessary

AJKOER - 5-5-2013 at 05:47

This exercise, at least in America, should be viewed as more of how to avoid (or reduce the award) in a lawsuit. I have been in a lawsuit and I have been amazed as to how such suits have, in fact, been 'decided'. In my opinion, the safety list of what to do should not be written for a lab student, but a clueless judge trying to decide if your school is really detailed and complete in its safety procotols. So, for example, discuss how to safely open a bottle (yes, I am unfortunately serious).

Then, after your detail listing of what to do and not, add a statement to the effect, "In addition to all previous procedures, exercise general care and reason, and if uncertain, ask questions and/or seek help."

Now, you would think that would be all that is needed, wrong. You should even predict when and how an accident could occur. So add "If you are feeling sick, tired or otherwise even remotely suspect that you cannot follow the safety protocols, ask your lab partners to take over and/or speak to the teacher."

Now, you think you are done, wrong again. If you have been on an American airplane, have you noticed that someone publicly reads the safety instruction (perhaps in many languages)? So even though you have the best safety protocols ever, it no good unless you can demonstrate its dissemination.

Now, if there is any time left in the lab period, use it wisely.


[Edited on 5-5-2013 by AJKOER]

amazingchemistry - 5-5-2013 at 19:50

In the case of a lab class, would a good catch-all (so that the safety protocol is not 10 pages long) be: "follow all applicable protocols previously discussed in class"? I think the "general care and reason..." and "If you are unable to follow the protocols..." clauses should be included in a general lab contract (of the sort I had to sign at the start of every year) and not before every experiment. Also included should be something to the effect of: "by performing the experiment, you confirm that you have read and understood all applicable instructions." I agree it can get ridiculous, but there was at least one well-publicized case in the US of a university professor going to jail for neglecting to enforce appropriate safety protocols, which resulted in the death of a student. So if nothing else, do it to cover your butt.

AJKOER - 6-5-2013 at 04:11

OK, to be correct your professor isn't 'silly'. The other day as I sitting in the doctors office and, for a moment, I though as was talking to my lawyer.

Now, your comment "follow all applicable protocols previously discussed in class" means nothing to a judge and gives him no basis for deciding against the plaintiff.

The point of having an obviously too long safety protocol is to give a judge a basis for completeness. Don't worry about it being too long, it won't be read even if it is too short. But each word, paragraph, page,..is very important to a judge (and a lawyer) and look for double meanings and ambiguities (have it test read for issues by someone than doesn't known any science at all, this is very important as their issues could be the judge's issues as groundless and stupid as it may be).

Not reading before each lab class is the same as saying "you previously heard all this safety stuff", and you should plan on going to jail at some point, IMHO.

Now as America isn't really the land of equals after you are born, as a practical matter, the odds are more likely that if any member of a well-to-do family is ever involved in a lab accident, you better have all my suggestions plus more (like, for example, personally video tape with a warning sign that you are being taped) nailed down, or you (and your institution) may regret it. In other words, firewall your backside accordingly, not just "cover your butt".

The reason for the video tape if anyone asks, of course, is to monitor and improve lab safety procedures.
-------------------------------------------------------

Here is an extract of a report of a lab accident (see http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-26/news/ct-met-sc... ):

"The issue of safety in the science classroom was highlighted recently when a student at Richards High School in Oak Lawn was injured after a plastic bottle containing dry ice and water exploded, according to a lawsuit filed this month in Cook County Circuit Court.

Dillon Mantia, 16, of Chicago Ridge, was in chemistry class on Sept. 13 when a teacher combined nuggets of dry ice and water in a plastic bottle, sealed it tightly and then instructed the students to pass it among themselves "to feel and observe the pressure building up" in the bottle, the lawsuit said.

But the vessel exploded while Mantia was holding it, resulting in "severe and permanent bodily injuries to his face and hands, irreparable loss … of sight in his left eye," the lawsuit said. None of the students was wearing protective goggles, said court documents."
-------------------------------

Here is another case (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=lawsuit%20inj... ):

"Mishaps in school labs reveal lack of safety TAMMY WEBBER Associated Press
GENOA, Ill. - In a flash, the routine high school chemistry experiment turned to chaos.
An alcohol-fueled fireball shot into the classroom, searing the skin of three junior honor students in the front row. They took the brunt of the blast on their faces, necks, arms, hands and legs.
The teacher pulled burning jeans off one of the girls; scorched skin fell from the boy's face. The rest of the class scrambled for the door, leaving burned backpacks and books behind.
The fire at Genoa-Kingston High School in October was a horrible accident, but it was not isolated. Across the country, at least 150 students have been seriously injured in school lab accidents in the past four years.
But the number is almost certainly much higher, according to interviews with researchers, school officials and insurance companies.
Researchers found that more than 70 percent of high school science teachers in North Carolina had never received safety training, although they added that serious injuries are very rare, and they do not describe this as a "panic situation."
As schools try to meet tough new science education standards set by the National Academy of Sciences in 1996, students are spending more time in laboratories. Some are crowded. Some have teachers with no safety training. Some are in 19th-century buildings ill-equipped for 21st-century science.
"Before, most kids were reading out of textbooks, but the new federal science standards absolutely, strongly advocate hands-on, inquiry-based science," said Kenneth Roy, who chairs an advisory board on science safety for the National Science Teachers Association. "What this means is, you have to have safety concerns as job one, but some schools don't."
And while teachers are protected in the workplace by state laws, students are not covered by those laws. There is little regulation of school labs, and no government or private agency collects official data on accidents that happen there. As a result, the exact number of accidents is unknown.
Almost all of the accidents and injuries could have been prevented with simple safety measures, experts said. But many teachers are unaware of the dangers, and there is no formal system to share information on accidents so teachers can learn from others' mistakes."
--------------------------------------

Here is an extract of a different news source (see http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/11/suing_ove... ) with an interesting comment, to quote:

"Ultimately, the success or failure of any lawsuit against a school district “really depends on what happened,” Lee said.

“If you have the right set of facts...you don’t have to worry about immunity,” he said. “But most people don’t have the right set of facts.”


[Edited on 6-5-2013 by AJKOER]