Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Tetraamine Hydrazine Persulphate?

APO - 3-3-2013 at 16:16

Ya know the Tetraamine Copper Persulphate complex? Could I make Hydrazine Sulphate and then modify this procedure to make a Tetraamine Hydrazine Persulphate?

DraconicAcid - 3-3-2013 at 16:30

Ammonia forms a complex ion with many transition metal ions, including copper ions. I do not expect ammonia to form a complex ion with hydrazine, as hydrazine is not a transition metal. Or a metal of any sort.

APO - 3-3-2013 at 16:40

Sure?

APO - 3-3-2013 at 16:43

Then, maybe... Tetraamine Alkali Complex?

DraconicAcid - 3-3-2013 at 16:56

Quote: Originally posted by APO  
Sure?

Am I sure that it's not a transition metal? Yes, quite.
Am I absolutely sure that hydrazine sulphate will not form any kind of addition compound with ammonia? Not really. It certainly would not be analogous to an ammine complex- it would be more similar to a hydrate (with the ammonia attaching itself to the hydrazinium ion through hydrogen bonding). Since ammonia does not, as far as I am aware, bond to the very similar ammonium ion, I don't expect it to do so. But it's possible that if you recrystallized ammonium persulphate from liquid ammonia, that you might get an ammonia adduct of some stoichiometry.

You'd be better off trying to make a hydrazine complex of copper(II) persulphate.

AndersHoveland - 3-3-2013 at 19:08

Persulfate, even when not acidified, can be fairly reactive. I would think it would just oxidize the hydrazine. Hydrazine is a reducing agent itself. Woelen tried to make hydrazinium iodate and found it could not be done.

[Edited on 4-3-2013 by AndersHoveland]

DraconicAcid - 3-3-2013 at 20:24

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
Persulfate, even when not acidified, can be fairly reactive. I would think it would just oxidize the hydrazine. Hydrazine is a reducing agent itself. Woelen tried to make hydrazinium iodate and found it could not be done.

[Edited on 4-3-2013 by AndersHoveland

That's a good point- I now remember reading that hydrazine can be used to reduce copper to make a copper mirror, so I doubt you'd be able to make a hydrazine complex of copper(II) persulphate.

APO - 3-3-2013 at 23:01

Any Hydrazine Complexes that can be formed from Hydrazine Sulphate?

AndersHoveland - 3-3-2013 at 23:22

Typically the sulfate group is rather worthless, the oxygen atoms are too strongly bonded to the sulfur. Persulfate is not a good oxidizer for energetic purposes, only one of its oxygen atoms really easily come off.