Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Industry City Distillery -- Vodka for chem geeks?

Industry City Distillery -- Vodka for chem geeks?

bfesser - 11-2-2013 at 14:37

I just stumbled on this interesting organization, and I thought I'd share. <a href="http://drinkicd.com/" target="_blank">Industry City Distillery</a> uses a cool process to ferment their beet sugar into ethanol. They utilize a specific strain of yeast that they've immobilized in alginate beads. They put these beads into glass reactor columns and feed their reactant solution through. Pretty damn cool, and very environmentally friendly. I'm not sure if it's their original idea, or if they got it from someone else, but somebody should earn a green chemistry prize for this.

I'm hoping to order a bottle or two of No.3 when I get one of my tax returns. (Yeah, that's right. Poor unemployed guy living in urban area wasting his low-income tax return on booze! Maybe the government-funded healthcare I'm getting will pay for replacement kidneys? Suck a bag of dicks, Republicans!)

Anyways, I thought this was just too damn cool not to share... so check it out! This is basically porn for people like us:

<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7271/7789921476_b3f9a50f36_z.jpg" />

[Edited on 7/8/13 by bfesser]

cyanureeves - 11-2-2013 at 18:38

cool stuff and drink in good health .why is it steel is said to produce poison alcohol if used as a still yet i see stainless steel used all the time. i have a pressure cooker that is stainless steel and have tons of copper tubing now and summer will soon be here so i want to make ethanol again.

mr.crow - 11-2-2013 at 18:47

Mmmm hipster science porn

crazyboy - 11-2-2013 at 21:47

Sounds like hype, I can imagine what is actually being achieved here; maybe if they were precisely controlling pH and temperature but the alginate beads sound bogus. What's not environmentally friendly about normal fermentation?

watson.fawkes - 12-2-2013 at 12:54

Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy

Sounds like hype, I can imagine what is actually being achieved here

It's a continuous fermentation process rather than batch process.

zed - 17-2-2013 at 16:48

Regular Steel? Too much iron becomes dissolved in the brew. Some African tribes, that practice fermentation in iron vessels, have suffered thereby.

Stainless Steel resists corrosion, and thus stays out of the brew. Copper, at least on the consumer level, is much cheaper than Stainless. More available too. Got Copper tubing at the local hardware store. Stainless tubing is hard to come by.

IrC - 17-2-2013 at 22:47

Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy

Sounds like hype, I can imagine what is actually being achieved here; maybe if they were precisely controlling pH and temperature but the alginate beads sound bogus. What's not environmentally friendly about normal fermentation?

Not bogus.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22326298

http://www.fmcbiopolymer.com/Pharmaceutical/Products/Alginat...

However I fail to see how this topic justifies unwarranted insults against Republicans with the comment "Suck a bag of dicks, Republicans!". If you can dish it out when it was so clearly uncalled for in this topic, then you can take it without whining. Especially since no two physical objects can occupy the same place at the same time and democrats were and are already there doing just that.

Instead of being brainwashed by liberal professors with rabid hatred your education investment would be better served learning the little things like how to spell 'beads', it is not 'beeds'. Only a brainwashed individual would spew hateful insults against such a large group with their own outlook on life without the slightest justification or provocation beforehand.

Attachment: Encapsulation-092011.pdf (228kB)
This file has been downloaded 607 times

Bot0nist - 18-2-2013 at 06:39

I thought the "bag of dicks" jab was pretty funny, though perhaps a bit hypocritical in light of the fact that we were just lecured by him in the joke thread in whimsy for being crude, lol.

That is very interesting. I may have to get a bottle too, with my low income tax return, hehe.
;D

Lambda-Eyde - 18-2-2013 at 07:02

Quote: Originally posted by IrC

However I fail to see how this topic justifies unwarranted insults against Republicans with the comment "Suck a bag of dicks, Republicans!". If you can dish it out when it was so clearly uncalled for in this topic, then you can take it without whining.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke

hissingnoise - 18-2-2013 at 08:08

IrC sliding down to the talc end of the Mohs scale . . . ?

IrC - 18-2-2013 at 10:42

No hissing merely making my own equal and opposite 'joke'. I notice jokes always go one way on this site. Someone has to be the opposing point of view. I could have reacted the leftist way and asked the ACLU to sue because my 'belief system group' was unfairly targeted. Instead I took the 'diamond' approach and countered with the equal and opposite view.

Organikum - 18-2-2013 at 11:27

Is there a new handbook for tea-baggies out? Something like "The sensible fascist?"

(pls sensibly notice the symbol placed at the end o the line before. Regards)

Immobilisation on alginate is the oldest of these techniques and comparably easy although it escapes me why they are doing it (except that its good promotion). It has no advantages at all for ethanol production. A normal fermentation is basically selfcontrolled, such a continous process calls for a lot of sophisticated sensoric and control.

Let me guess....

They have a nice show running producing a littel alcohol this way, makes a good press and marketing.
The real mass of alcohol they are buying on the overflowing free market as everybody with a brain would do, run it through some Britta waterfilter style equipment and voila'! here we go.

/ORG

[Edited on 18-2-2013 by Organikum]

bfesser - 18-2-2013 at 12:04

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

I thought the "bag of dicks" jab was pretty funny, though perhaps a bit hypocritical in light of the fact that we were just lecured by him in the joke thread in whimsy for being crude, lol.

I wondered if anyone would point that out.

IrC, I have two things to say to you:<ol><li>I made a typo. I know how to spell "beads", thank you.</li><li>Get over yourself. It was a joke. Let's not start another pointless political flame-war. If there had been an opportunity to take a jab at another large group of morons, I would have taken that. I'm an equal opportunity cynic.</li></ol>[note]
I had typed out a longer, more thoughtful and eloquent response, but it was lost.

IrC - 18-2-2013 at 15:08

Quote: Originally posted by bfesser

I had typed out a longer, more thoughtful and eloquent response, but it was lost.

Irritating when that happens.

DONALD W - 18-2-2013 at 15:56

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

I thought the "bag of dicks" jab was pretty funny, though perhaps a bit hypocritical in light of the fact that we were just lecured by him in the joke thread in whimsy for being crude, lol.

That is very interesting. I may have to get a bottle too, with my low income tax return, hehe.
;D

Me thinks, he is telling on himself.

hissingnoise - 18-2-2013 at 17:00

Quote:

Is there a new handbook for tea-baggies out? Something like "The sensible fascist?"

The unspeakable Koch bros and Big Tobacco now see their cretinous 'creation' running out of steam and of steaming horsedhit and they're likely pissed as fuck . . .
Rumour hath it that their next project could be a concerted push for the legalisation of marijuana!
There's good in everyone but adverse life experiences can mask lots of desirable traits . . .

crazyboy - 18-2-2013 at 18:05

Quote: Originally posted by IrC

Not bogus.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22326298

http://www.fmcbiopolymer.com/Pharmaceutical/Products/Alginat...

Did you read these links? The first one is about targeted deliver of viral agents, the second is about a gelatin free alternative for general pharmaceutical consumption.

Neither of these relate to fermentation or explain why fermenting with yeast in alginate is better than tossing it into the mash directly. As for the continuous fermentation. Why? Judging by the picture there is very little volume in those fermentation vessels I can't imagine continuous fermentation is so superior it's worth it to sacrifice so much money and convenience.

IrC - 18-2-2013 at 21:59

Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy

Yes I read them. I was responding to your comment "the alginate beads sound bogus" by showing the common use in industry of similar encapsulation of similar materials. By similar I mean living organisms. The first link is from the largest company involved in your 'bogus' alginate beads which ironically produces "alginate beads". I was showing encapsulation of organic life is common. When you called the beads 'bogus' it sounded like you were disputing the existence of said technology. I did not bother going into the subject of why they are being used to make brew. Or whether or not it is a desirable approach. However it did momentarily cross my mind reading once the termination of the fermenting organisms at high alcohol content is a limiting factor. My thought was I wonder if this approach protects the organisms longer allowing a stronger brew. Just idle thought on my part, thinking of the top of my head if you will. Do not see why you would rag me for posting of the links since at least one and the pdf I uploaded are from a manufacturer of alginate beads. Likely the maker of the very ones being used in the brew which started the topic.

It just seemed to be logical to assume the beads protect the fermenting organism allowing the continuous production.

[Edited on 2-19-2013 by IrC]

watson.fawkes - 19-2-2013 at 06:08

Quote: Originally posted by IrC

However it did momentarily cross my mind reading once the termination of the fermenting organisms at high alcohol content is a limiting factor. My thought was I wonder if this approach protects the organisms longer allowing a stronger brew.

This is close to what I think they're doing. It's not so much about the death of the yeast, but that they change their metabolism at high alcohol content, which corresponds also to lower sugar content. I'm not a brewer personally, but what I've read seems completely sensible, that when yeast are well-fed in ideal conditions the dominant metabolic product is ethanol. Stress them with low food and high alcohol and the metabolic pathway shifts, and they start producing fusel alcohols, which are mostly 3-5 carbon single alcohols. But they also produce various diols and longer-chain alcohols; these are more viscous and give rise to the alternate name fusel oils. For a vodka, these are all off-tastes, and the goal seems to eliminate them as much as possible before distillation.

IrC - 19-2-2013 at 11:31

I am sure you are correct in all this but laws limit maximum proof and they do not need alginite beads for that, so this is why I said "momentarily cross my mind " about why the beads. Isn't it possible their reason is more related to the continuous production protection for the yeast and to a lesser extent about the percentage of alcohol. Anyway, this was why I stressed 'momentarily'. They have been making fairly high proof brews for eons without the need for this new esoteric method. Just thinking out loud.

Yet another question:

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves

cool stuff and drink in good health .why is it steel is said to produce poison alcohol if used as a still yet i see stainless steel used all the time. i have a pressure cooker that is stainless steel and have tons of copper tubing now and summer will soon be here so i want to make ethanol again.

Since this is about science geeks is there a reason the entire assembly, condenser and all, cannot be 100 percent geeky glassware most of us already have?

By the way if you have industries such as chicken processing plants within your area, they are a goldmine of stainless steel tubing in many sizes and of the highest quality. Tyson's has an incredibly huge junkyard of it and no doubt so do many other similar companies. If you get to know whoever runs their maintenance department you might be able to make fantastic deals on it.

[Edited on 2-19-2013 by IrC]

cyanureeves - 19-2-2013 at 16:56

IrC probably because stills can hold gallons and are cheaper to run. i just didnt understand why the fermented brew can be warmed in stainless steel pots and condensed with copper tubing. apparently stainless steel is not like carbon steel or tin and is accepted but i wanted to be sure. i made it with a tin can and it smells delicious and it being poisonous probably kept me sober. my ethanol burns clean and i still have 1 pint but just knowing that it is toxic makes me feel that i didnt achieve making real alcohol. ah hell maybe i'm just kidding myself.

IrC - 19-2-2013 at 17:56

"it being poisonous probably kept me sober"

Explains some of the craziness in Chicago during prohibition. They made it in strange devices and drank it too. I knew an old lady nearing the end of her days in the 70's who told some amazing stories of the roaring 20's. She had the first wringer washer in her part of town but it never washed clothes it's first decade of existence. It was used as a still supplying a few speakeasy's . I never really quizzed her about the method of manufacture. Don't remember if she ever said in detail, other than mentioning the washer was the mash container and was run for agitation (probably only every so often during a run). No idea what the condenser was or where it was hidden in raids but the washer stood in plain view always completely overlooked during raids. The wringer (was that the name?) was two rollers on top, hand cranked to squish dry clothes. One time they were searching around she described running a shirt through it the whole time to distract them from looking inside. Seems it was full of the next batch. Wish I would have thought to ask her if there was any odor coming from it (I've never made brew) because it seems there should have been. I think. If you worry about your tin can brew I have to wonder what was in something made in a washing machine, and what effect it had on those drinking it. She knew Capone and Nitty, on occasions they drank some of her alcohol. Sure would explain a lot about their behavior in those days.

bfesser - 20-2-2013 at 08:54

I imagine that baking bread would easily mask the odor. There's an old washing machine, as you describe, in the basement of my brother's house. He already does home brewing. I wonder if we could try it out—for science!

IrC - 20-2-2013 at 22:42

If you start wearing a Zoot suit and carrying a Thompson I am staying far away.

Topic Summary - Yeast-Alginate Beads

bfesser - 8-7-2013 at 08:45

Cross-Referencing Posts:<ul><li><a href="viewthread.php?tid=1328#pid13364">permanent production</a> – Organikum – 01/24/04</li><li><a href="viewthread.php?tid=2008#pid21258">untitled post</a> – PHILOU Zrealone – 05/25/04</li><li><a href="viewthread.php?tid=3434">Alginate beads?</a> – CrazyZebraPerson – 02/20/05</li><li><a href="viewthread.php?tid=3995#pid44826">untitled post</a> – Taaie-Neuskoek – 06/05/05</li></ul>Somewhat Related:<ul><li><a href="viewthread.php?tid=3986#pid44737">untitled post</a> – Esplosivo – 06/04/05</li><li><a href="viewthread.php?tid=8916">Science of Spherification!</a> – oxybate – 08/02/07</li></ul>

testimento - 9-7-2013 at 19:52

Wow, I just got interested. A continuous process for making ethanol. You dont need large vats and you can filter and fractionate the desired product and circulate the solvent(here=water

) back to be loaded with saccharides to be fed for the feasters again. This kind of setup could be fit within small space and could produce several gallons of 95% food grade ethanol in a day.