Sciencemadness Discussion Board

making plastic explosive from nitroglycerin

Vikascoder - 31-12-2012 at 19:09

Hello friends . First of all I wish you very happy new year
Now lets get back to topic in COPAE various methods are given to make dynamite from nitroglycerin by absorbingit into many things like sawdust charcoal, ammonium nitrate land many other things but my question is that is this possible to make a plastic explosive from nitroglycerin which can be molded an any desired shape as we mould the plastic explosive from RDX and mould it any shape we like . It becomes just like dough for bread . So is this possible to make plastic explosive from ng. If yes then please tell.how to make .

Kalium - 31-12-2012 at 21:27

Yes, there is. Check out this quote from Uncle Fester's Home Workshop Explosives (I know many people don't like the book but I think we can trust him with this):

"My favorite PETN plastique is made by mixing PETN with nitroglycerin. I like it because it is extremely powerful (more powerful than C-4), easily detonated, and made from readily available materials. Its lone drawback is that the ease of detonation also means that rough handling could set it off. It must be treated with respect.
To make this plastique, 80 grams of PETN are put into a stainless steel bowl, and then 20 grams (12ml) of nitroglycerin is poured over the crystals. This mass is mixed with a rubber spatula until an even, uniform plastic mass resembling Play-Dough is made. This substance can be wrapped in wax paper until used."

[Edited on 1-1-2013 by Kalium]

Vikascoder - 1-1-2013 at 01:40

Can plastic explosive be made by mixing urea nitrate and nitroglycerin

Metacelsus - 1-1-2013 at 15:29

I've never seen it tried before, but it seems plausible. It would depend on the ratio, though.

PHILOU Zrealone - 2-1-2013 at 08:55

With some Nitrocellulose, NG forms a gel...

franklyn - 2-1-2013 at 11:11

See pg 345 - Chemistry of Powder & Explosives
Gelignite 92 % NG + 8 % Nitrocellulose

for something superior
See pg 281 - Chemistry of Powder & Explosives
80 % PETN + 20 % NG , Swiss Pat. 137476 Stettbacher 1932
Attachment: PETN + NG , CH137476.pdf (115kB)
This file has been downloaded 862 times

.

Microtek - 2-1-2013 at 13:48

IMO, the big problems with NG plastiques is toxicity and the volatility of the plasticizer (NG).

The toxicity probably won't kill you, but nitro headaches aren't nice, so you need gloves for handling the plastique.

As for volatility, even though NG does have a high boiling point, it will evaporate over time. This makes the plastique brittle if stored for long periods. There's also the risk of exudation depending on which type of plastique you are making (this won't be a problem with colloidal mixes).
For this reason, NG plastique should by fired within a relatively short period of time after manufacture.

Ral123 - 2-1-2013 at 23:16

That's not very true :/ Mixtures with nitric esters are one of the most health friendly explosives. Yes you wont have head aches if you plasticize RDX with DNB but I wouldn't touch it unless they pay me a lot. RDX, tetryl, ctmtna, trinitrobenzene, hexanitrodiphelnilamine-all poisonous and cancerogenic. Military is thinking of a way to replace RDX with something less nasty for a long time. NG however wont give true plastiques. It will however give workable high density mixtures.

Motherload - 3-1-2013 at 01:14

The military is thinking of replacing RDX with something cheaper, more powerful and yet stable.
Toxicity has little to do with it .... Especially since most munitions are sealed.

Microtek - 3-1-2013 at 06:57

DNB was not what I had in mind. A properly plasticized C4 analog should obviously not be eaten, but otherwise is not a serious health hazard. RDX is not sufficiently carcinogenic to be a danger from infrequent handling.
NG or EGDN will make you dizzy from vasodilation which can lead to serious accidents.

Ral123 - 3-1-2013 at 23:00

RDX is already kinda cheap. What more cheap, C4 with ETN/MHN? I prefer the headache(witch I never seem to get) then the carcinogenic effect of the RDX. NG and EGDN are best when you need high density with the home made stuff. (the other contender is TNAZ witch is too expensive even the military)

You can have your plastique and eat it too

franklyn - 4-1-2013 at 03:08

@ Motherload

" The military is thinking of replacing RDX with something cheaper, more powerful and yet stable."

www.economist.com/node/21562898
CL-20 is more powerful than RDX and HMX , but its higher sensitivity means that
it also explodes more easily. The most common way to desensitize an explosive
is by mixing it with a non-explosive material. Although that works , it also reduces
the amount of bang you get. Adam Matzger of the University of Michigan and his
colleagues have discovered a way around that problem by co-crystallization.
Dr Matzger made a co-crystal consisting of two parts of CL-20 and one part HMX.
The hybrid explosive has nearly the same explosive power as CL-20 but the lower
sensitivity of HMX.

As for cheaper , oh yeah , good luck with that.

__________________________________________________________


@ Ral123


• Glyceryl Trinitrate is taken in small amounts as a palliative for heart angina.

• RDX was originally patented as a medicine as well as an explosive.
See heading History here _
www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/RDX.html
Georg Friedrich Henning in 1898 was granted German patent 104280
for the manufacture of what later came to be known as RDX , by nitrating
hexamethylenetetramine. In this patent , its properties as its possible use
as a medical compound are described.

Also mentioned on page 397 in Chemistry of Powder & Explosives by Tenny Davis


• Scroll down here to read first three paragraphs of heading
Hexahydro-1,3,5-Trinitro-1,3,5-Triazine appearing after
Table 8. and Table 9.
www.atsdr.cdc.gov/hac/pha/pha.asp?docid=938&pg=2


Read the opening post of this thread _
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13598#pid1751...

• Dr. George Kistiakowsky , the Harvard chemist who worked on explosives research
for the implosion of plutonium in the Manhattan Project , and was later science adviser
to Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy recalls :
" Stanley Lovell head of the Office of Strategic Services (O.S.S.) came to us and asked
us to develop ways for camouflaging explosives which could be smuggled into enemy
countries."
Kistiakowsky and an associate came up with a substance which was dubbed " Aunt Jemima "
because it looked and tasted like pancake mix.
Says Kistiakowsky :
" You could bake bread or other things out of it. I personally took it to a high-level
meeting at the War Department and ate cookies in front of all those characters to
show them what a wonderful invention it was. All you had to do was attach a powerful
detonator, and it exploded with the force of dynamite."

The above quoted from here _ www.whale.to/b/m/1.html
The Search for the "Manchurian Candidate": The CIA and Mind Control :
The Secret History of the Behavioral Sciences
See page 11 here _ http://lilleprinsforlag.com/The Search for the Manchurian Ca...
Also mentioned down in the middle here _
www.bookrags.com/biography/george-b-kistiakowsky-woc

I recall having seen a historical documentary in which Kistiakowsky personally recounts
this story , so it is not apocryphal. ( Although not stated , the explosive is made with RDX )

.

Microtek - 4-1-2013 at 05:43

I have heard that story as well (Aunt Jemima). Personally, I wouldn't eat RDX, but eating an equivalent amount of NG or other nitric ester would probably kill you.
I don't doubt that RDX is more carcinogenic than NG, so if taken frequently in small doses, I would agree that NG is better for you than RDX taken the same way.

However, since no one is likely to eat the plastique, I think contact toxicity is the more important matter. R-salt (the nitrosamine analog of RDX) is reportedly horribly carcinogenic, so if the RDX contained a lot of R-salt I wouldn't want to handle it either.

SM2 - 4-1-2013 at 13:24

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
That's not very true :/ Mixtures with nitric esters are one of the most health friendly explosives. Yes you wont have head aches if you plasticize RDX with DNB but I wouldn't touch it unless they pay me a lot. RDX, tetryl, ctmtna, trinitrobenzene, hexanitrodiphelnilamine-all poisonous and cancerogenic. Military is thinking of a way to replace RDX with something less nasty for a long time. NG however wont give true plastiques. It will however give workable high density mixtures.


There are different forms of toxicity. Cyclonite toxicity is more easily managed because you have to physically ingest it to get the strychnine like convulsions. However, with nitro, it is a highly lypophilic molecule, and just handling it will give you a headache like you've been using volatile nitrites to excess, if I may. As far as carcinogenic worries, I would stay FAR AWAY from all nitrosamines, vinyl chloride, benzene, and a few others.