Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Brillouin Alchemy

Brillouin Alchemy

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 15:25

Just joined, and here is a report i wrote for a permaculture site, so i guess it's ok if it ends up as detrius !

Looks like Mitsubishi just reproduced Toyotas experiments of the Brill/Rossi/Defkalion nickle power, and showed that they also got transmutation.

http://pesn.com/2012/04/19/9602078_Brillouin--Understanding_...

Looks the nuetron synthesis does create/transmute elements

http://news.newenergytimes.net/2012/12/06/mitsubishi-reports...

and the easiest way to figure out your feedstocks.

http://www.perfectperiodictable.com/default.html

We had a discussion/rant about this earlier.

http://www.permies.com/t/15169/md/gold

It's pretty straight forward.

You take a plate or preferably mesh, of Nickle or Pt or Pd, hook up a low voltage DC pulse to it, and it starts to heat up, by converting waters hydrogen into it's isotopes of Deuterium, Tritium, then Quadrium.
That instantly decays into Helium , producing heat, and NO radioactivity. No neutrino's or alpha, beta, or gamma rays involved, just a phonon that is infrared energy.

this only uses a thimblefull of water, it's not a chemical reaction, it just uses the pulses of DC to move the electrons up the valence shells (orbits) of the hydrogen atom.

The really strange part of this, is that to do that, it is actually "creating" neutrons, to make the new isotopes. This just shows that neutrons are either coming out of the "quantum foam" that is the background of the universe in Loop Quantum Gravity theory (Rovelli), or that they are coming thru from another universe that exists right next to ours in Brane theory, or also called the "multiverse" theory.

Either way, it gives us a new view of cosmology and gravity, that we haven't been able to test for up till now .

It also probably invalidates the "particle zoo" theory that is in use right now.
It is one of the side effects of LQG, that most of the stuff they find in the LHC and other accelerators are going to turn out to be electrons that have a lot of "velocity" when they come thru the "branes",or up thru the "foam", and are actually just spin states of either photons or the afore mentioned electrons. So there is prob no such thing as a "neutron", it is just an interference pattern of an electric attraction between electrons and protons (protons may actually be photons without any inertia)
(my speculations above, and some papers recently done in India)

Most of astrophysics is actually based on isotopes. Dating of stars, planetary systems, comets, geology, chemistry , etc.
There is going to be a huge shake up there.

The other cool thing, is that i have been putting forward the idea that if this was indeed happening, that it was also actually transmutation of elements, the "philosophers stone" of alchemy.

This was shown when Mitsubishi was re-doing the trials of the Brillouin/Rossi/Covelli experiment, and they used some other metals in the mix to see if it was just Nickle that was making the heat reaction. (details of the experiment are still not posted up ?)

If you look at the reactions on the Mitsubishi story, you can see which elements were transmuted into other elements.

If you look at the Adomah periodic table , you can see why they went to those elements. They jumped from the bottom of one column, to the top of another.

Why and how that happend will be article frenzy for the next decade of scientists.

As to why this is better than a solar future.

Solar electric is stranded in a huge quagmire of patents, and as of now uses huge amounts of infrastructure and toxic chems to make cells that break down pretty quickly in sunlight and heat.

There is something we are studying on the asteroid mining group (neamines @ yahoo,com), of going to nano solar.

This is a combination of nano towers, and nano wells, and is basically just using carbon built up on a conducting base with tiny holes in it as solar cells.
Photons rattle around in the towers until they slow down enough to drop into the holes.
This allows you use ALL the incoming radiation, infrared, visible, and UV, in the panels, so they don't reflect off the other stuff, as they do now.

you can make these at home, with just a sheet of copper foil, and some aluminum foil as a silkscreen for graphite nanotowers right now.

in the future, we will use graphene as the base, with different versions of it to make the nano wells (defects). Nano towers will be made of carbon nanotubes looking like a grassland.
They just made the first joining of a nano tube to a graphene base in a paper last week. it took awhile to get it to attach to a six sided hexagon, don't know the details yet.

It is also possible to make the nano tubes directly from CO2 in the air, to help scrub it out of the atmosphere, to help reduce global warming. Graphene seems to need liquids or pressure, but not the high temp sputtering currently used.

You can make graphene by compressing graphite between rollers against poly sheet, or by flowing methanol over metals at 150 f or c. (not sure which)

The other breakthru was that the structure of a broken benzene ring also creates electricity directly from heat.
Imagine those hexagons , with the edges connecting to each other offset from a direct chain. ( think the SE and SW corners, instead of due south)
as heat moves down the chain, it goes slower on the east or west side ( the side opposite of the SE or SW connector) because it has to go a tiny bit further as it goes down the chain.
This actually produces an electric charge !
It is small, but each chain produces some, and this can be made as a paint, for a roof, or car, or exhaust pipe , or circuit board or transistor case.

The real kicker is that this "chain" shape, is actually the same as the "edge" of graphene in it's "armchair" configuration. That means we will be able to use ribbons of graphene as the same heat to electrical (thermoelectric) systems, without having to put a lot of benzene out into the environment. The other cool thing about graphite in ribbon and sheet form, is that water will stick to the surface, and offset from itself automatically, the distance necessary for it to be used as a battery. self assembling batteries from carbon and water - wow.

other ribbons of graphene in the "fence" configuration (N to South connections) is a room temperature superconductor, and can be used as wires, with now line losses (resistance)

Essentially almost ALL waste heat produced by electronics and mechanical systems can be reclaimed directly as electricity.

http://www.azpbs.org/technology/play.php?vidId=2589

and

http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v3/n3/full/nchem.985.htm...

As to what is so cool about the transmutation of elements, think about the shortage of Rare Earth Elements right now.

These aren't actually rare, they are just really messy to get OUT of dirt. It is one of the most toxic of the refining processes, using literally TONS of water, in multiple flotation series, and lots of chemicals and catalysts to produce stuff pure enough to use in mixes as alloys. Every single one of the mining and refinery area's in the US was shut down because they were some of the worst polluters in the US.

Now imagine you can just take cobalt, or magnesium or aluminum, and transmute it directly into whatever element you actually need.

These don't have to be from new mines either. Can be distilled out of sea water, or just use mine tailings and waste piles from existing mines and refineries.

Most existing toxic waste is actually heavy metals, and can be purified by electrochem right onto anodes, in crystalline form, you can process directly into needed elements.

The other benefit of this is for 3D printing.

This allows you to make the feedstocks, and produce manufactured parts right in your own neighborhood, without incurring the costs and wastes of transporting both raw materials and finished goods from one location to another.

It also allows you to deposit the metals onto the anodes in a crystal formation, making it easy to process right at home, rather than having to purchase sheet or rod stock, and melt or shred it down to particle size.

Imagine ALL the waste products now produced, to be feedstocks for direct 3D printing, with locally made parts of plastic and metal.

This allows small family businesses to compete directly with multinational corps, and the Web for business, while employing locally , and cleaning up all the dumps at the same time !

and if you have to clean the soil...
http://www.materialstoday.com/view/29462/flower-power-to-pro...

most of the links for graphene can be found among this thread

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/NEAmines/message/5085

[Edited on 10-12-2012 by morganism]

Lambda-Eyde - 10-12-2012 at 15:34

What the fuck did I just read?

plante1999 - 10-12-2012 at 15:35

Quote: Originally posted by Lambda-Eyde

What the fuck did I just read?

Same here!

I think its something about free energy, again...

Endimion17 - 10-12-2012 at 15:35

what the fuck is this?

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 15:42

New guy, and having trouble with the edit button too !

Read the header links?

The Adomah periodic table is pretty sweet, and show in the tetrahedral design why the transmutations happen as they do.

Will be back for help setting up some cells, but wanted to show this to you guys.

smaerd - 10-12-2012 at 15:54

Since when does running a low DC current in nickel or platinum mesh make hydrogen isotopes from water? Then it makes helium and disappears, what? Then this becomes a phonon which let me guess, also disappears and turns in to magic fairy sprinkles no one can measure? I kind of stopped reading right there.

More science less madness!

[Edited on 11-12-2012 by smaerd]

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 15:59

I am hoping you guys can tell ME whats going on here !

I have been looking for folks that actually build this kind of stuff, and just found you the other night.

The heat actually just gets harvested off in an exchanger, and is used for plant or process heat.

The stuff about thermoelectrics i have been looking for ways to generate for the asteroid mining project we have been working on. The benzene thing is straight up. The graphene thing is just my way of doing it without having to have benzene floating around in a sealed enviornment.

Have copies of the Brillouin patents on the controller box on the home computer, they revoked the patents for energy/heat generation after deciding it was "cold fusion"

Endimion17 - 10-12-2012 at 16:02

tetrahedral bullshit... oh my, where have I heard of this...

There was this nutjob on one forum, talking about chickens doing the transmutation of potassium into calcium, and he was into this "tetrahedral phylosophy" or whatever. Typical wacko crackpot.

Also, check this out.
http://www.timecube.com

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 16:10

The Adomah table isn't typical crackpottery.

They didn't have all the info when they designed the original tables.

The energies and weights work out much better than a standard table.
Download the vertical chart, and take a look.
The 3D model is excellent for how it hangs together.

PESN can get a little wacko, but the interview and explanation with the PI is one of the best out there for description and has the pics in one place, better than the Brillouin Energy site.

The Mitsubishi reports just posted this weekend.

watson.fawkes - 10-12-2012 at 17:24

Quote: Originally posted by morganism

I am hoping you guys can tell ME whats going on here !

You've fallen for it. The "it" is somewhere along the continuum containing unproven results (at the very most generous), quackery, and outright fraud.

So do the permaculture movement a favor and don't go there. It's already far too full of gullible flakes that will fall for any old anti-mainstream bullshit that bolsters their personal identity.

As for Adomah, until you know what spherical harmonic functions are and how they relate to quantum mechanics, solutions of Schrodinger's equation with a central potential, and the Mendeleev periodic table, you don't have any basis in science of a claim of superiority of one over another.

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 17:48

Actually, have been looking hard for "it".

Toyota and Mitsubishi labs seem pretty solid to me, and not likely to release results that would reflect badly on them, if they hadn't vetted the results pretty thoroughly.

The explanation i wrote out for them is supposed to be fairly simple, and i tried to edit out the questions they had asked about how this tech helped the earth, and just WTF was going on with the tech.

If the science behind the Brill is correct, then most of QCD is most likely incorrect, no matter how much we have invested in it.

The Adomah table looks like an excellent teaching tool also, but i havn't even played a scientist on tv.

I thought that as actual experimenters, you folks would be very interested in this.

The setup could be built in a day at nearly any university lab in the country, and most of them have nearly the exact setup mothballed already. It is the eqpt used for hydrogen sequestration/compression/storage for vehicle use. The only added eqpt is some kind of a PWM, to pulse the DC.

I have been looking at using the Battery Minder Plus, because it fires off a spread of harmonics to release the lead oxides or sulphates on standard 12v wet cells.

Am afraid it isn't going to have enough voltage to get the electrons excited enough tho, and am not sure on how to figure out what pulse voltages i would need anyway. There was a pretty famous paper out by some japanese researchers six months ago, that showed how they moved and trapped electrons up the shells. Got quite a bit of press as an "anti-entropy" piece, even tho they were dumping in electricity.
Could prob harvest some figures from that, if they actually published the specifics.

watson.fawkes - 10-12-2012 at 18:08

Quote: Originally posted by morganism

Toyota and Mitsubishi labs seem pretty solid to me, and not likely to release results that would reflect badly on them, if they hadn't vetted the results pretty thoroughly.
[...]
If the science behind the Brill is correct, then most of QCD is most likely incorrect, no matter how much we have invested in it.
[....]
I thought that as actual experimenters, you folks would be very interested in this.

You have not cited published papers from either of those labs in what you've written so far. Until I see those, it's just hearsay.

There is no science behind whatever it is Brillouin Energy is up to. There's a huge amount of hand-waving, no replication of the results, no theoretical papers even to discuss. That means there's no science yet. Maybe in the future. It is way to early to be predicting the imminent death of QCD.

Precise calorimetry is very difficult to get right. By my estimation, there are only a half-dozen moderately-active people on this forum who have the skills to do it. None, to my knowledge, are.

Had you taken the time to learn something about the way this area has has been discussed before on this forum, you would already know what people think about Rossi, and you would have seen the paper I posted a few months ago on the state of cold fusion research.

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 18:32

I agree.

Calorimetry looks very hard, and expensive.

Just posted up a thread in technochem about using a spectrophotometer to look for helium, seems like it would be a fast, cheap and easy way to see if you getting any anomalous action, and to tune or optimize for output.

Will search for your paper now, did a basic search the other night.

There won't be any papers to discuss, or get past this stage, because the patent office won't give protection for anything that resembles "cold fusion", and only LANL and a few other labs that are allowed to wing it, are even entertaining doing research on it.
No grants are being allowed into research for this.

I also got interested in Rossi, and am pretty convinced he is not playing above board, but it appears he read the bit about Brillouin, and has now constructed a new version that actually works.
The powder he was using appears to actually activate the effect , but i believe it doesn't have the surface area, or the structure to ever optimize the effect.

Defkalion appears to have read the paper too, and now may have a working model, because they can supposedly now control their reaction also. Previously, they would just get spikes of action.

I don't see a locker available on this site to upload files too, for other folks access, so don't know how to post up any info.

Supposedly Brillioun has had some replication, and has been issued a patent in China, for whatever that is worth.

Will post up a link for building your own reactor with wire.
Even standard nichrome wire is supposed to be enough to get the effect.

watson.fawkes - 10-12-2012 at 19:16

Quote: Originally posted by morganism

There won't be any papers to discuss, or get past this stage, because the patent office won't give protection for anything that resembles "cold fusion", and only LANL and a few other labs that are allowed to wing it, are even entertaining doing research on it.

Patent filings are not scientific papers.

No shortage of venues to publish actual papers. There's the ICCF, Intenational Conference on Cold Fusion. Web site for ICCF-17. That's nowhere near the only venue that cold fusion papers appear in, using whatever buzzword of the moment is (usually LENR).

elementcollector1 - 10-12-2012 at 19:51

Seriously, I think my IQ dropped from reading this. Transmutation? Not likely.

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 20:07

Thanks Mr Watson, found the thread explaining how the current isn't carried out thru the whole electrode. Didn't know that, and have been keeping an ear out on the battery stuff lately too. It didn't explain whether that was because of the Beltzman resonances, or just a current artifact, but does explain some things i didn't even know i didn't know.

Gonna be a lot of that i fear, we never really had a chem class.

Found the thread on Rossi and a quick one on LENR stuff, but is there one discussing the neutron synthesis/ isotopic forcing ideas?

I saw a little on WD Larson stuff, but that is not supposed to be what is happening here.

And deuterium is supposed to be a step in the process, not a feedstock. It also has been hinted that it may actually be a contaminant in the nickle grid, being what eventually slows the reaction after a few years ?

Also found Woelens site with the power supply hack. Very nice, and excellent info on chems and reagents. Will do some saving there !

if you can point me to another link discussing the ideas that Brillioun is playing with, i will keep digging.

morganism - 10-12-2012 at 21:32

So no one even knows anyone that has tried this experiment, even with nickle ?

Seems like it would be worthwhile.

If it did work, you could put in a couple gas permeable membranes, and actually pay for the setup by separating out deuterium and helium.

D2 was @ 250 euros a liter ? in the Rossi thread......

The copper/copper experiments at Woelens site might be related to the isotopic forcing too.....

elementcollector1 - 10-12-2012 at 21:50

This will not give you deuterium.
Or helium.
I don't know what your end-product is supposed to be, but if you
a) deny the existence of neutrons
b) assume that nickel can somehow split or worse, create isotopes of hydrogen
c) provide precisely zero chemical equations, credible citations (no, patents certainly do NOT count)
you're probably not going to get too far.

I would love to be proven wrong here, a sample of deuterium gas would be pretty neat to have.
I don't think I will be, though.

smaerd - 11-12-2012 at 05:07

Look, electrolysis of water using Nickel electrodes has been done thousands of times. No one has found isotopes of hydrogen in their products. Infact people have used Nickel electrodes for electrochemical hydrogenation, pretty sure they'd be able to find dueterium in their products... Platinum electrodes have also been used for thousands of experiments, same story...

morganism - 16-12-2012 at 01:30

Well, they are getting helium in their boiler system.

As i pointed out, at least two of these hydrogen sublimation experiments have gone "energetic"

No one has been looking for these effects. The people that have, have found them.
I thought it was a joke when i heard it was creating Quadrium. Didn't think that was even synthesizeable..
It is not a chemical reaction.

Did you read the article?

Started another thread on how to test over on the techno forum

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22660

if you want to discuss how to test this idea.

elementcollector1 - 16-12-2012 at 13:23

If thousands of people have done electrolysis of water for over a century now, what makes you think it suddenly started producing deuterium, and quadrium (which doesn't exist for more than a 'zeptosecond', by the way)? I find it highly unlikely that no one discovered this before.

j_sum1 - 23-11-2018 at 04:41

Crazy zombie thread resurrected by a spam bot.
I have deleted the spam but thought it was worth bumping for a bit of a read.

Bat shit bonkers. It it just might brighten your day.

[Edited on 23-11-2018 by j_sum1]