Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Hydrazine contamination

dangerous amateur - 24-10-2012 at 03:46

Hi,

I'd like to hear your opinion on that, because I like to try out a few things with hydrazine.

How you guys deal with residues after working with hydrazine?

How do you decontaminate your equipment?
Can you rely on the fact that hydrazine is getting destroyed by aerial oxigen over time?

ScienceSquirrel - 24-10-2012 at 03:51

If you are using a few grams I would just pour it down the drain at high dilution.
The equipment can be rinsed with plenty of water to remove any residues.
It will find something to react with at the sewage farm and turn into nitrogen and water!

weiming1998 - 24-10-2012 at 04:17

Quote: Originally posted by dangerous amateur  
Hi,

I'd like to hear your opinion on that, because I like to try out a few things with hydrazine.

How you guys deal with residues after working with hydrazine?

How do you decontaminate your equipment?
Can you rely on the fact that hydrazine is getting destroyed by aerial oxigen over time?


Hydrazine+oxidizing agent= harmless by-products. Bleach and H2O2 are good oxidizing agents to decontaminate the area contaminated with hydrazine. Aerobic oxidation happens, although a bit slower than using an oxidizing agent.

kristofvagyok - 24-10-2012 at 13:00

Quote: Originally posted by dangerous amateur  
Can you rely on the fact that hydrazine is getting destroyed by aerial oxigen over time?

Easy, work with it fast(:

Waterfree hydrazine is a bit nasty, but hyrazine-hydrate usually does what you need and if you don't let it stand for too long then there will be no problem. Also it is a question that what do you use it for.

P.S.: For waterfree hydrazine: The less then 1% water cont. hydrazine should be distilled from metallic sodium or barium freshly.

BromicAcid - 24-10-2012 at 17:22

Quote: Originally posted by kristofvagyok  

P.S.: For waterfree hydrazine: The less then 1% water cont. hydrazine should be distilled from metallic sodium or barium freshly.


Although off topic I feel I must add some information to your post as it is potentially dangerous. The following quotation is form:

Audrieth, L. F., Anderson, B. The Chemistry of Hydrazine; John Wiley & Sons 1951
Quote:
The use of calcium, metallic sodium, or sodium amide for the removal of the last few percent of water from concentrated hydrazine is certainly not to be recommended. Both calcium and sodium are effective dehydrating agents. Both of these substances will, however, react with hydrazine to form extremely explosive metallic hydrazides, especially if they are used in quantities exceeding those needed to react completely with the water that is to be removed.


This is not the lone source for this information, just from the closest book at hand. A separate source claims that the addition of metallic sodium to hydrazine without a dillutant results in an exothermic reaction liberating hydrogen and ammonia gas.

The standard method to prepare anhydrous hydrazine is to distill over sodium hydroxide or barium hydroxide, not the native metals.

With regards to the original question, decon is accomplished as weiming stated using peroxide solution or better yet bleach. For a 100% kill all go to ceric ammonium nitrate solutions which are very rapid but of course hardly OTC.

DJF90 - 24-10-2012 at 20:11

@Bromic, you're the sort of person I'd trust regards information about such a devil. Older literature states distillation in glass should be avoided (copper/silver retort??); whats your take on this? Vacuum/inert gas? Any good method for converting hydrazine sulfate to the hydrate reliably and in good yield?

As an aside, I've seen several patents on the concentration of aqueous hydrazine using azeotropic distillation of the water with xylenes.

Random - 25-10-2012 at 04:49

Quote: Originally posted by DJF90  
@Bromic, you're the sort of person I'd trust regards information about such a devil. Older literature states distillation in glass should be avoided (copper/silver retort??); whats your take on this? Vacuum/inert gas? Any good method for converting hydrazine sulfate to the hydrate reliably and in good yield?

As an aside, I've seen several patents on the concentration of aqueous hydrazine using azeotropic distillation of the water with xylenes.


you are gonna blow up yourself soon

DJF90 - 25-10-2012 at 05:31

And what do you mean by that?

I'm just asking advice on the spur of the moment. Sure, I can go away and diligently research it (and I will at some point before attempting it) but I figured I'd ask someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about (first hand experience maybe?) first, whilst theres the opportunity to.

Adas - 25-10-2012 at 05:47

Hydrazine is pretty poisonous and carcinogenic, the best solution would be to let small concentrations evaporate outside in the wind or neutralize it with HCl and flush away.

kristofvagyok - 25-10-2012 at 11:48

Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid  
Quote:
The use of calcium, metallic sodium, or sodium amide for the removal of the last few percent of water from concentrated hydrazine is certainly not to be recommended. Both calcium and sodium are effective dehydrating agents. Both of these substances will, however, react with hydrazine to form extremely explosive metallic hydrazides, especially if they are used in quantities exceeding those needed to react completely with the water that is to be removed.

My info was from a book written by G. N. Nyicsugovszkij - water analysis in chemicals.

He does not mention any explosive hazard of the compounds, but this could be also because this book was written in the good old USSR. Sorry for the potentially dangerous info.

Random - 26-10-2012 at 04:39

Quote: Originally posted by DJF90  
And what do you mean by that?

I'm just asking advice on the spur of the moment. Sure, I can go away and diligently research it (and I will at some point before attempting it) but I figured I'd ask someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about (first hand experience maybe?) first, whilst theres the opportunity to.



like a year back, I have been reading about hydrazine and it said that explosion can and sometimes occurs without any reason while distilling it

combine that with toxicity, why do you even want pure hydrazine?

ScienceSquirrel - 26-10-2012 at 05:48

Quote: Originally posted by Adas  
Hydrazine is pretty poisonous and carcinogenic, the best solution would be to let small concentrations evaporate outside in the wind or neutralize it with HCl and flush away.


If you are using small quantities of hydrazine, less than 5g, and you wear gloves, avoid breathing the fumes or use a hood, it is perfectly safe.
A lot of things are toxic; copper sulphate and vitamin A for example, but they are a long way from the really poisonous; potassium cyanide and arsenic salts, and then there are the truly deadly; ricin, palytoxin and dimethyl mercury.
An experienced chemist knows how to handle chemicals and reactions so they pose little or no risk.
MSDS's are by and large written by arse covering paper shufflers. :(

Random - 26-10-2012 at 07:07

Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  

MSDS's are by and large written by arse covering paper shufflers. :(


msds are the last place where i would search for quic tips and help in case of accident

dangerous amateur - 28-10-2012 at 04:58

Hi,

If got neither hood nor gas mask, but I hope working outside and upwind will sufice;)

I think I wont get more than 25% from freebasing my sulfate.


Thanks for your opinion.

Solomon - 27-6-2013 at 23:01

Is this the guy on youtube who died from synthesis of hydrazine? If so, those labels under our names are eerily accurate.

Finnnicus - 27-6-2013 at 23:13

Oh god Solomon, I hope you're wrong. But, links anyone?

woelen - 28-6-2013 at 02:24

Quote: Originally posted by Solomon  
Is this the guy on youtube who died from synthesis of hydrazine? If so, those labels under our names are eerily accurate.
I don't think anyone died of synthesizing hydrazine. Hydrazine is toxic, but not that toxic such that it easily kills someone acutely. Long term effects of exposure to hydrazine (cancer) are of more concern.

Unfortunately, however, someone did die of performing a bad experiment. I do not remember his username anymore, but he died from the effects of inhaling phosgene. Phosgene is an acute poison.

Marvin - 28-6-2013 at 03:03

Myfanwy (SM) Myfanwy94 (Youtube)

Solomon - 28-6-2013 at 08:10

yes I knew it was phosgene, but I just wasn't sure it was his same name on science madness. Thanks Marvin.

Solomon - 28-6-2013 at 08:15

I found him http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/member.php?action=viewpro... :(. Still... those labels under are names are really accurate... like scary accurate. He did produce hydrazine right? I realize he got phosgene as a byproduct.

Hydrazine contamination

stefen - 2-7-2013 at 05:34

Hydrazine contamination can be prevented by washing the container with sufficient amount of water & using commercial bleach (5% sodium hypochlorite). Add sufficient bleach until all bubbling action ceases.

Referrence: http://chemistry.tutorcircle.com/inorganic-chemistry/nitroge...

woelen - 2-7-2013 at 06:41

Quote: Originally posted by Solomon  
I found him http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/member.php?action=viewpro... :(. Still... those labels under are names are really accurate... like scary accurate. He did produce hydrazine right? I realize he got phosgene as a byproduct.

He might have made hydrazine once, but not in the same experiment which produced phosgene. Hydrazine and phosgene cannot coexist in the same pot, they will react. I cannot imagine any reaction which produces phosgene and hydrazine at the same time.