Sciencemadness Discussion Board - TeACN

TeACN

killer666 - 18-6-2004 at 13:17

Several days ago I tried to detonate about 5g TeACN - [Cu(NH3)4](NO3)2 but it didn't explode. At first I trried to light it but this was almost impossible. Then I began to hit it with a hammer but it didn't explode again! I don't know what was wrong. I made the TeACN by mixing 20g CuO with 50g NH4NO3 and then added 100ml 10% NH3 solution. I left the mixture for 4 or 5 days (I was busy). The product was blue.

The_Davster - 18-6-2004 at 15:03

Did you obtain the product by filtering out the precipitate formed? If you did you most likely filtered out Cu(OH)2, the TACN is more soluble in water than copper hydroxide.

killer666 - 19-6-2004 at 12:40

yes. I filtered the solution. How to obtain the TeACN from итс ватер солутион ?

axehandle - 19-6-2004 at 12:42

..and for those of us here who don't know the cyrillic alphabet nor russian...?

killer666 - 19-6-2004 at 12:51

To err is human.

yes. I filtered the solution. How to obtain the TeACN from its water solution?

The_Davster - 19-6-2004 at 12:53

According to dictionary.com итс ватер солутион means in english "its the ring spinning frame of solution" So how to obtain the TACN from its the ring spinning frame of solution?...must be a bad translator

. Im going to intrepret this as how to obtain the TACN from the solution. First filter your mixture after doing what you said in your first post. What stays in the filter is NOT your TACN. What is in the filter is copper hydroxide. Your TACN is in the liquid that passed through the filter. To isolate it just evaporate.
Also, call it TACN not TeACN, you get better search results this way.

Edit. YAY, I intrepreted it right

[Edited on 19-6-2004 by rogue chemist]

Madog - 21-6-2004 at 14:25

i think the best thing to do would be to reduce it by evporation, cool it to 0C and add some very cold EtOH, and filter that.

thats what i would do, anyways

PHILOU Zrealone - 23-6-2004 at 03:04

This subject has been extensively developped in the beginning of this forum.
Also mentionned Ni and Co nitrato amino complexes.

The isolation from the watery saturated solution might be done after partial evaporation and addition of excess NH3.

Usually my procedure calls for dry Ethanol or better methanol saturated with Cu(NO3)2, Ni(NO3)2 or Co(NO3)2 then introduce excess concentrated NH3...It will cristallise out..if it doesn't add a little ether.
The proof it is a new compound is that it precipitates in ethanol/methanol what doesn't precipitate the original nitrate..you can dissolve quite a lot in surprisingly.

Also it isn't the best thing to do since those are relatively unsensitive nor effective.
Better play with perchlorates!
Maybe a mix of perchlorate/nitrate would be worth a try.

As soon as I have my appartement and lab operational again...i'll persue my experiments on this.

The_Davster - 23-6-2004 at 22:13

For some reason I seem very attached to TACN. I have only ever experimented with small amounts but I seem drawn to it. I know, as Philou stated, that they are not too usefull, but still I have an inherrant belief that they are cool. I have tried many different routes with varying success' but I am still determined to get it "right".

Macgyver - 13-8-2004 at 10:28

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue chemist
Did you obtain the product by filtering out the precipitate formed? If you did you most likely filtered out Cu(OH)2, the TACN is more soluble in water than copper hydroxide.

What colour should the Cu(OH)2 be? I have also attempted to make TACN, and after mixing the Cu(NO3)2 solution with NH3OH I got a dark blue precipitate, which I filtered off.

Now I have saved both the precipitate and the filtered solution, because I have heard more than one story about which is the good stuff.

Esplosivo - 13-8-2004 at 10:37

Cu(OH)2 is a light blue ppt. An excess of ammonia soln. will make sure that all the copper hydroxide will turn to TeACN. I have carried out such a synthesis lately and obtained quite a large amount of TeACN, by cooling the solution to nearly 0 deg celcius before filtration.

The solution is simply a solution of the tetraamine copper (II) complex in water. For the ppt. to be highly explosive I suppose it mush be thoroughly dried previous to use. It does deflagrate to a certain extent even when quite wet.

Macgyver - 14-8-2004 at 21:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Esplosivo
Cu(OH)2 is a light blue ppt. An excess of ammonia soln. will make sure that all the copper hydroxide will turn to TeACN. I have carried out such a synthesis lately and obtained quite a large amount of TeACN, by cooling the solution to nearly 0 deg celcius before filtration.

The solution is simply a solution of the tetraamine copper (II) complex in water. For the ppt. to be highly explosive I suppose it mush be thoroughly dried previous to use. It does deflagrate to a certain extent even when quite wet.

Do you mean that the dark blue crystals that remain after I've added the ammonia solution should also be filtered off and discarded, and what I want is what will be left after the filtered solution has evaporated?

I've saved both the solution and the dark blue crystals for now, since I've heard different points of view about which of them contains the TeACN...

Esplosivo - 15-8-2004 at 01:30

I think I might have explained myself wrongly. What I wanted to say is that the deep blue crystals you filtered off should be the TeACN. If the ppt was light blue instead it would have been Cu(OH)2 and more ammonia should have been added so to convert it into the TeACN. To increase the yield of TeACN I cooled the solution.

The solution itself does contain TeACN, but I don't know if it is worthit to boil the solution to get out more TACN.

Macgyver - 15-8-2004 at 01:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Esplosivo
I think I might have explained myself wrongly. What I wanted to say is that the deep blue crystals you filtered off should be the TeACN. If the ppt was light blue instead it would have been Cu(OH)2 and more ammonia should have been added so to convert it into the TeACN. To increase the yield of TeACN I cooled the solution.

The solution itself does contain TeACN, but I don't know if it is worthit to boil the solution to get out more TACN.

Okay, then I got it right. Just need to let the deep blue crystals dry now then.

The crystals seem to burn, but very slow so I guess they need to be mixed with something in order go be used as an explosive.

[Edited on 15-8-2004 by Macgyver]

quest - 28-12-2004 at 07:18

Sorry for bouncing this thread again, but yesterday I made TeACN.
I used pure cupper and 70% HNO3 and made Cu(NO3)2.
Than I mixed this solution (blue) with NH4OH solution.
It made more crystals and turned deeper blue

[img]http://www.upload2.pyrozone.net/[Cu(NH3)4](NO3)2/filtering.JPG[/img]

now its drying.......

I know its not Cu(OH)2 because its blue and not green
But now whan it dried all night all the outside of this lump turned less blue and more green, so I think its deflagrate :-\

Is there any way I can check what I got?
It could be Cu(NO3)2 too I think.....

mark - 29-12-2004 at 18:11

Well you could sperate it by adding it to ethanol. CuNO3 is soluble in Ethanol and Tetra amine copper nitrate isn’t.

There is away to make it anhydrous I believe. We precipitate the CuNO3 and heat till anhydrous (white). Then dissolve in ethanol and bubble ammonia through it. Which should precipitate the anhydrous tetra amine Copper nitrate. I guess the yield could be washed with ethanol to make sure the copper nitrate does dissolve and then discarded.

quest - 30-12-2004 at 04:24

thx, but now I got another problam

I successfuly synthesis the TeACN
but its wet from water.....

whan i put in outside it dry and all the outside is turning Cu(NO3)2 green.......

its not hot in here so I dont know what it decomposed :-\

Esplosivo - 30-12-2004 at 05:34

Quote:

Originally posted by quest
whan i put in outside it dry and all the outside is turning Cu(NO3)2 green.......

Green is quite strange. IIRC the only Copper salt which is green in the solid state is the chloride. Copper nitrate is blue in colour, just like pure Copper sulfate.

quest - 30-12-2004 at 06:02

I found some picture in google with some metarial in the same color of the "green" I got:

click here

[Edited on 30-12-2004 by quest]

mark - 30-12-2004 at 18:34

Strange. Next batch wash it EtOH to get rid of the water and that should leave dry in a few hours at most. Usally 10 minutes for me to get a bone dry product.

TACN

Unipetrol - 12-5-2005 at 11:50

I made TACN thus: I liquified about 170g NH4NO3 in 320ml 25% ammonia, and then I dumped to it 250 g well puloverized CuSO4.5H2O. I waited about 5 hours and then I filtered it. I didnt poured to it any other liuids. I put it (it was like violet gel) on the "filtering" paper, in paper-lined paper box and placed it on radiator in bathroom

. (Before it I left it outside because it smelled terribly..ammonia...and after about two days I placed it tu our bathroom... and all the first day I hed our ventilator turned on....) After 5 days on radiator I had lumpy, but dry violet "powder". I grinded it in mortar to "real" powder...after it it was really fine violet powder. I hope that I helped you.

[Edited on 12-5-2005 by Unipetrol]

[Edited on 12-5-2005 by Unipetrol]

woelen - 7-10-2005 at 10:26

Sorry that this thread is bumped again, but I think this is the best place for my little words...

I have questions about the previous synthesis. Although you indeed will get a tetrammine copper compound, how does it assure that the nitrate is obtained and not the sulfate? I think that a mix of both is obtained at best.

I have my own method:
Take CuO (from a ceramics supplier)
Dissolve this in as little as possible HNO3. Assure that a small amount of CuO remains undissolved. Heat a little to dissolve as much as possible of the CuO. This assures that no (or only a very small amount of) free HNO3 remains in the solution of copper nitrate.
Decant the blue liquid from the solid CuO.
Pour cold NH3 (25%) in the blue liquid. This causes formation of a light blue precipitate, but if more NH3 is added, the precipitate becomes deep blue/purple. The solution also becomes deep blue.
Now, a dark paste is obtained, with a deep blue liquid above it. There must be a strong smell of ammonia.
Let the dark blue precipitate get soaked with ammonia. This can be done by allowing the mix to stand for one or two days and occasionally stirring the paste and liquid.
Decant the liquid from the paste and spread the paste on a large glass surface. Do not use filter paper. It tends to dissolve the paper!
Let stuff dry for several days in a warm and dry room.
Do the final drying by blowing hot air over the powder (using a fohn, assuring that not all powder is blown away

).

In this way I prepared approximately 2.5 grams of TACN. Here is a picture of approximately 1.5 grams I saved.

Now I have a few questions:
Is this how it should look like?
I can light it with difficulty. If I put a flame of a torch on it, then it first melts and then I get kind of 'poof' with a small cloud of black smoke. It does not really explode, it is more like nitrated cotton-wool, but with a less visible flame. Is this normal for TACN, or should it really explode?

Edit(woelen): Made link working again

[Edited on 10-3-19 by woelen]

Axt - 7-10-2005 at 11:16

I'll say thats practically the same as my experiance with it. I've never found a definate answer, but the problem (from an energetic aspect) is going to be hydration. For more amusement try looking for complexes not prone to hydration, theres a more established thread here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1778

Right now I'm thinking Diaminesilver (I) bromate, Ag(NH3

2BrO3, should be anhydrous, and quite insoluble, so should precipitate from AgNO3/NH4OH + NaBrO3. Though likely light sensitive sensitive :cool:

Oh, and if your nitrated cotton burns like that, it has serious issues

[Edited on 7-10-2005 by Axt]

woelen - 7-10-2005 at 12:06

Quote:

I'll say thats practically the same as my experiance with it. I've never found a definate answer, but the problem (from an energetic aspect) is going to be hydration.

WIth 'hydration' you mean water, attached to the copper ion, instead of ammonia, or do you mean hygroscopic nature, in the sense that the compound is not really dry?

My stuff is perfectly dry. If I shake that container with the powder, then it does not stick at the glass walls and the powder is free flowing. So, I think it is really dry. Of course, water of crystallization or water, coordinated to the metal ion, still can be in the compound. In that case I expect something like

[Cu(NH3)4-x(H2O)x](NO3)2

where x > 0. This indeed would be less energetic, because the nitrate has less 'fuel'-NH3 in the same compound.

Quote:

Right now I'm thinking Diaminesilver (I) bromate, Ag(NH3)2BrO3, should be anhydrous, and quite insoluble, so should precipitate from AgNO3/NH4OH + NaBrO3.

How can I be sure that Ag(NH3)2(+) is precipitated with bromate and not simply Ag(+)? I once made AgBrO3. That is almost insoluble in water and can simply be precipitated. When mixed with e.g. magnesium, you get a very powerful mix, but this is something different than a compound, which is energetic on its own. Is the ion Ag(NH3)2(+) stable on storage in the solid state? Ammoniacal silver forms fulminating compounds in aqueous solutions, which are insanely sensitive and even a wrinkle on the surface of the liquid may set it off! How about the stability of the solid stuff?

Quote:

Oh, and if your nitrated cotton burns like that, it has serious issues

I think that my comparison with nitrated cotton wool was not very clear

. The only thing I was comparing is the flame and the kind of noise produced. Luckily I only need a propane torch to ignite the cotton wool

Axt - 7-10-2005 at 12:49

Quote:

Originally posted by woelen
WIth 'hydration' you mean water, attached to the copper ion, instead of ammonia, or do you mean hygroscopic nature, in the sense that the compound is not really dry?

I dont think theres an aquo ligand, but as I said, I've seen no definate answer. Cu(NH3)4(NO3)2.xH2O would be my bet.

Quote:

How can I be sure that Ag(NH3)2(+) is precipitated with bromate and not simply Ag(+)?

Since they are both likely clear/white. Take some, walk out into the sun and see if it explodes

Thats what I'd expect. I dont think you will have a problem distinguishing them!

Quote:

Ammoniacal silver forms fulminating compounds in aqueous solutions, which are insanely sensitive and even a wrinkle on the surface of the liquid may set it off! How about the stability of the solid stuff?

Only the dry precipitate is vehemently explosive, not the solution. It shouldn't form so easily in a non-heated solution, just dont leave it overnight.

Quote:

I think that my comparison with nitrated cotton wool was not very clear

heh.. yes. Someones gota work on their analogies

EDIT:

Quote:

Copper (II) ammine Nitrates
Several complexes of general formula, Cu(NO3)2. xNH3. yH2O, are listed in Ref 2, pp 179-82. Izzo (Ref 1, p214) lists the following blue signal light compn contg one of the complexes: K chlorate 53, “nitrato di rame ammonicale” 26, charcoal 16 & sulfur 5%

Re/s:
1) Izzo (1950), 214
2) Gmelin, Syst Nr 60, TIB, Lfg 1 (1958), pp 179-82

That doesnt indicate either way, only thay water is involved. the refrence from: Gmelin-Krauts Handbuch der Anorganischen Chemie, Verlag Chemie, Berlin,8th ed (1928-1958) would shed some light on it.

[Edited on 7-10-2005 by Axt]

Quince - 8-10-2005 at 04:29

Quote:

Originally posted by axehandle
..and for those of us here who don't know the cyrillic alphabet nor russian...?

LOL, he used cyrillic, but not Russian, he just phonetically spelled out the English (Disclaimer: I'm not Russian, I just know the Cyrillic alphabet).

Quince - 8-10-2005 at 04:32

Quote:

Originally posted by quest
I found some picture in google with some metarial in the same color of the "green" I got:

click here

[Edited on 30-12-2004 by quest]

Er, you should know better than to do something like this and expect a valid reply. The chromatic responses of different monitors vary widely, unless all users have calibrated their systems with the correct color profiles (I have, but have you?).

[Edit: Fixed spelling error.]

[Edited on 8-10-2005 by Quince]

lopos123 - 25-3-2009 at 12:39

Sorry for writing in a very old thread!

Yesterday i tried to make TACN by dissolving 2g pure copper and 5g ammonium nitrate in 10ml 10% ammonia sulution.
After 1 day the solution turned blue and bright blue crystals formed at the copper. I filtered the solution and ended up with 0.7g with crystals. I dried them well. Then i tried to detonate it. It got a very little "poof sound" and some smoke came.
Is this TACN? If so, it didn't impressed me!

I also tried to use CuO insted of pure copper. I ended up with some very dark blue\purble crystals after i filtrated it. When i heated them up, nothing happend. What is this? What did I do wrong?

Can somewhone give me a recipe with CuO and one with Cu to make TACN? It is so little info on these explosives on the internet! I have access to most of the chemicals and equipment used. And yes, i have read this thread and i have searched.

[Edited on 5-20-2011 by Polverone]

User - 25-3-2009 at 17:22

Well maybe it's a useless comment but isnt TACN just a pointless pursuit.
It has no practical use what so ever.
It's a bitch to dry, i made it under absolute alcohol with dried gass and every possible way i could think of to eliminate water still the damn stuff remains wet, which ruins it's properties if it has any.
Except for educational purpose i can not imagine why one would want to make it.
Better look for other complex primaries.

Try bubbeling dried ammonia gas through the solution.

lopos123 - 25-3-2009 at 22:49

Thanks.

In the Copper, ammonium nitrate? Can i mix copper and ammonium nitrate in ethanol and bubble ammonia through?
Can i boil 10% ammonia to get ammonia gas or must i do it another way?

Taoiseach - 26-3-2009 at 00:27

"Well maybe it's a useless comment but isnt TACN just a pointless pursuit. It has no practical use what so ever."

I have to disagree. TACN is easily dehydrated in dry acetone, forming a stable dull-violett powder. This is the only useful form of TACN. The hydrated form cannot be stored because it readily draws CO2 from air. It is also very insensitive and weak. I observed the same effect with TACP: The hydrated form is useless. It can hardly be ignited with a match and is very insensitive to impact. Remove the water of crystalization and you get a much more sensitive and powerfull substance. Of course these materials must be stored in a well stoppered bottle to exclude moisture. Thats probably the reason none of these substances ever saw commercial application as primaries.

"It got a very little "poof sound" and some smoke came.
Is this TACN? If so, it didn't impressed me!"

Yes but its the hydrated form. From that you will hardly get anything more impressive than a pop sound and some smoke. Plus it decomposes in air. So you need to dehydrate it. Put the crystals in a beaker with dry acetone, crush them carefully then decant and press dry between filter paper. Let them dry in warm air until all acetone has evaporated. Then do a final drying over CaCl2.

During the acetone wash you will notice the chunky crystals change color from deep blue to a light violet and turn into a fine powder. This powder is stable in air and quite powerful. Its quite sensitive too - smack with a hammer and it goes boom.

"Can somewhone give me a recipe with CuO and one with Cu to make TACN?"

Both will work. NH4NO3 can oxidize copper metal, forming ammonium nitrite, ammonia and water. The nitrite is unstable @RT and decomposes to water and nitrogen:

Cu + 3NH4NO3 > Cu(NO3)2 + 2NH3 + 3H2O + N2

Only 2 moles of NH3 are formed per copper atom. Four NH3 will coordinate to Cu(II) forming the tetrammine complex:

Cu+2 + 4NH3 > [Cu(NH3)4]2+

The nitrate [Cu(NH3)4](NO3)2 can be precipated because it has a much lower solubility than copper nitrate.

As you can see, oxidation of Cu with NH4NO3 will only give 50% theoretical yield because too little NH3 is formed. You can remedy the situation by boiling Cu metal in NH4NO3 solution, then add ammonia. Work with hot concentrated solution, if possible use dry NH3 gas and lead into the still hot solution. Upon cooling you should get a nice crop of TACN.

Of course CuO works better because copper is already oxidized. No waste of the precious nitrate ion here. Put copper metal into ammoniacal NH4NO3 solution and bubble air through it. Copper is oxidized on contact with air, the oxide dissolving in water:

2Cu + O2 > 2CuO
CuO + H2O > Cu(OH)2

"It's a bitch to dry, i made it under absolute alcohol with dried gass and every possible way i could think of to eliminate water still the damn stuff remains wet, which ruins it's properties if it has any."

It cannot be made in anhydrous form, unless you have access to anhydrous copper nitrate

This stuff is not easily available and quite impossible to make at home.
If you start from CuO or copper metal, the reactions forming the complex will always produce water so theres no point in using ethanol as medium.

User - 26-3-2009 at 04:02

I've made it under professional lab conditions as well as TANN with "every" possible material/chemicals within my reach .
And besides i used no water at all ( as far as that's possible with moisture in the air ).
The only contact it had with water was during vacuum filtering.
Well what I am actually trying to say is that its funny substance to make but it remains pointless.

Ps. is not there a topic about this like 20 pages long?

lopos123 - 26-3-2009 at 05:27

I really appreciate your post Taoiseach!
One thing I did not understand was how to dehydrate it in acetone? Can you describe the dehydrate procedure a little clearer, I'm not so good in English.

Taoiseach - 26-3-2009 at 07:03

Dump it into a beaker filled with acetone, stirr and let it sit for a short time. The acetone will take up the water of crystalization. Pour off the acetone (which now contains water) and wash with another portion. Repeat until the color of the crystals no longer changes.

Of course this works best with dry reagent grade acetone, but I tried it with the crappy comercial stuff (which contains a considerable amount of water) and even that worked fine.

lopos123 - 26-3-2009 at 08:34

Can i just heat up some 10% ammonia sulution to get ammonia gas?

User - 26-3-2009 at 10:08

Yes its possible thou not very economical.
You can also use an ammonium salt e.g ammonium nitrate.
Just pour some acid over it and you will have ammonia gas.
The only problem is that the gas might be wet so it has to be dried over a desiccating salt/fluid.

lopos123 - 26-3-2009 at 10:59

NH4NO3 + HCl --> NH4Cl + HNO3
HCl is the strongest acid i have, so how can i make ammonia gas the?
Can I use acetic or citric acid?

Taoiseach - 28-3-2009 at 01:19

Fuck I wasted my time on u retard. U dont know shit about chemistry but ask questions on how to make explosives. FU :mad:

lopos123 - 28-3-2009 at 01:40

I have not taught me everything in the chemistry yet, but I know a lot about it. My father worked on it, so he can very much. He helps me too!
So you don't need not be angry.

I have dehydrated the crystals in acetone and dried them with Potassium Chloride (10h). I testet them, but they didn't detonate! The acetone was 60-100% and the container i dried them in with potassium chloride is airtight. What did i do wrong?

User - 28-3-2009 at 10:09

Are kidding me?
How do you dry stuff over KCl, its not like that hygrospopic.
Wow and btw that would be an awsome way to make HNO3

lopos123 - 28-3-2009 at 10:20

I buyed KCl on a hardware store as a stuff to dry things, so I thought I could use it.
NH4NO3 + HCl --> NH4Cl + HNO3, i copy and paste it from another site. I thought it was too easy to make HNO3 that way too, however, it could be that NH4NO3 + HCl --> NH4Cl + HNO3 was right, but it was impossible to make HNO3 that way for some wierd reason.
Don't look at me like I'm stupid!

how can i dry the crystals then?

Formatik - 28-3-2009 at 10:37

Go pick up a basic chemistry text book and learn some things. Then read some literature.

lopos123 - 28-3-2009 at 10:49

I can just ask my dad instead. I have a chemistry book, also a book about explosives.

User - 29-3-2009 at 06:43

Damn I hate flaming like this.
But I dont want to make myself look stupid.
No if course its not possible to make nitric acid that way... OMG.
Please go play with lego or something.

PHILOU Zrealone - 31-3-2009 at 04:31

Quote: Originally posted by User

Damn I hate flaming like this.
But I dont want to make myself look stupid.
No if course its not possible to make nitric acid that way... OMG.
Please go play with lego or something.

It is possible and HNO3 is in the mix of NH4NO3 + HCl aside with NH4Cl; but to get HNO3 out in appreciable amount is another story because HCl is more volatile and because by concentration of the watery solution HNO3+HCl will make ON-Cl and O2N-Cl and oxydise the NH4(+) into N2, NH2Cl and NCl3 (+ some Cl2)...

lopos123 - 9-6-2009 at 05:47

There you see

I have got some calciumchloride to dehydrate my TACN. How long does this take?
It has stood for three days, however, nothing has happened. Another person from another forum has let it sit for over a week and the TACN has turned brownish? He has not yet testet it, though.

lopos123 - 10-6-2009 at 06:55

I've tried to detonate it now, however, nothing happened.

Etanol - 13-3-2013 at 11:54

It worked!
Cu(NO3)2 + 10% NH3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOd4NTnolTA&list=UUd1EjH...

Laboratory of Liptakov - 7-9-2014 at 11:09

Laboratory of Liptakov developed a easy preparation TACN.

This converter is patent protected by March 12, 2014. The owner of patent rights: Laboratory of Liptákov. You do not ask me any permission. Asking for permission to be in the industrial and commercial use.

TACN the hemihydrate. OB -6.3. Reagents for the portion of the base:
NH4NO3 clean 100 g
Cu wire diameter 1.5 mm 40 g
NH3 25% in aq. 140 g
Glass is placed 350 ml clean grease-free Cu wire according to the diagram. The cap hole with a diameter of 12mm. AN embankment and pour NH3.
Glass coated foam insert into a suitable mixing apparatus. For example, a ball mill. Set the speed to 60 to 120rpm. The reaction takes 2-4 hours. According to the ambient temperature. Last hour to dissolve all the copper and glass full of raw TACN about 1-2 mm grain size. Caution: the reaction is exothermic. Reaction temperature 30-40 ° C. Do not exceed. After the reaction cooled to 5 ° C. Crystals TACN put into the separator. That is the figure. Vent domestic vacuum cleaner. Dry at 40 ° C. Yield: 120-140 grams of dry hemihydrate. For the production of explosives not need recrystallization. Recrystallization: from 8% aqueous solution of NH3.
LL........... :cool:

[Edited on 8-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

TeACP

Laboratory of Liptakov - 28-1-2015 at 09:49

For TeACP procedure is almost the same as for TeACN. In the clip, the only difference in the ratios. The clip is also an attempt to what can be cut only with youtube editor. But this is off topic EM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDPa0Od3jws
...Dr.Liptakov... :cool:

Etanol - 3-2-2015 at 11:16

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

This converter is patent protected by March 12, 2014. The owner of patent rights: Laboratory of Liptákov. You do not ask me any permission. Asking for permission to be in the industrial and commercial use.
[Edited on 8-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Thanks a lot for technique!
Never before have I carried out such a simple synthesis.
This is a great way to get rid of copper scrap.

Only one question: why do you think that the formula of TACN is [Cu(NH3)4](NO3)2 * 0.5 H2O , but not [Cu(NH3)4](NO3)2 ?
How do you identified the water?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-2-2015 at 08:58

Water was determined by mass analysis. Weight ratios. Decomposition TACN to CuO. Water (tied) in TACN is not a problem. VoD is high, 3600 m / s. With aluminum 5% over 4000 m / s.
... :cool:

...LL

C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2 - 29-1-2019 at 16:40

All the syntheses for this compound have seen required either a combination of a copper salt/oxide/hydroxide, AN and concentrated ammonia, or else elemental copper, air, AN and concentrated ammonia. Would it be possible to do the reaction with weak 3% ammonia cleaner and then pour it into a tray and evaporate?

Edit: sorry to bump an old thread, but I figured that it's best to have all the TACN data, old and new, in one thread.

[Edited on 30-1-2019 by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 30-1-2019 at 02:48

Not. It will not works. Is necessary do it boiled 3% NH4OH in one container and insert rubber hose into distil water cooled on zero, better on - 10C. And create concentration minimal 24% NH4OH in aq.

Elemental Phosphorus - 31-1-2019 at 19:25

Can't TACN also be made from copper nitrate and ammonia? I tried this recently and got a dark blue solution, but no precipitate. The solutions used were not very concentrated and hopefully that accounts for the lack of precipitate. Is it safe to just boil the solution?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 1-2-2019 at 09:50

Cool your solution to zero Celsius in ice bath and introduce ammonia gas NH3 into. It should produce a light blue solution and everything else precipitates on TACN crystals. Process is pretty quick, should by takes 30 minute. If you have ammonia water 24%. If not, is necessary create it.

XeonTheMGPony - 5-3-2019 at 04:58

Quote: Originally posted by Elemental Phosphorus

Can't TACN also be made from copper nitrate and ammonia? I tried this recently and got a dark blue solution, but no precipitate. The solutions used were not very concentrated and hopefully that accounts for the lack of precipitate. Is it safe to just boil the solution?

Ya you want it to be as concentrated as possible.

I make a super concentrated copper nitrate solution, then chill and then direct gas ammonia through it.

Makes things a ton easier for post processing, filtering.

TACN

Laboratory of Liptakov - 13-3-2019 at 13:04

Maximal easy method for preparation TACN with recrystallization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSbU1DDKivg

Etanol - 31-5-2022 at 09:32

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

VoD is high, 3600 m / s. With aluminum 5% over 4000 m / s.
... :cool:

...LL

It is strange. Steel test showed Brisance of TACN/Al is less than pure TACN. Charges diam 19mm density 1.3g/cm3. How was VoD estimated?

[Edited on 31-5-2022 by Etanol]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 31-5-2022 at 21:53

Ideal density for TACN was tested. At 1,4 g /cc has lower brisance than at density 1,2 - 1,25. With aluminium or without.

Etanol - 31-5-2022 at 22:11

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Ideal density for TACN was tested. At 1,4 g /cc has lower brisance than at density 1,2 - 1,25. With aluminium or without.

Charges diameter? Plastic / metall shell? There is important the ratio diameter:critical diameter.
I find 7mm at 0.8-1.0g /cc and 10mm at 1.25g /cc in plastic tube.

[Edited on 1-6-2022 by Etanol]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 2-6-2022 at 12:33

OK, it can be. But TACN is cheaper against TACP. Therefore usually is used bigger diameter, for example 20 - 25 mm. Or 50 mm as main charge.

Etanol - 12-4-2024 at 13:08

How is critical diameter of melt-cast mix
4.5% hexamine/45.5% ammonia nitrate/50% coarse-cristalline tetraaaminecopper nitrate
at density c.a. 1.7-1.8g/cc?
40mm? 50mm? 60mm?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 12-4-2024 at 23:35

I am afraid that this mixture will not works at this high density at all. Because TACN + 5% Al provide best brizantion at density 1,25g/cc. At density 1.41 his brizantion fall on half. At diameter 25 mm. For described mixture I reccomend diameter 70 mm. With booster 5g HE. Only my opinion.... :cool:

Marcello0922 - 3-9-2024 at 12:20

Quote: Originally posted by Etanol

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Ideal density for TACN was tested. At 1,4 g /cc has lower brisance than at density 1,2 - 1,25. With aluminium or without.

Charges diameter? Plastic / metall shell? There is important the ratio diameter:critical diameter.
I find 7mm at 0.8-1.0g /cc and 10mm at 1.25g /cc in plastic tube.

Hello everyone. I think this article will clear up a lot of doubts: Properties and detonation performance of tetraamminecopper(II) nitrate (TACN) – a prospective green explosive.

In addition, I also have the results of the blast wave pressures generated by TACN and TACP in bulk and compressed form. The most interesting thing is that in the pressed form it has a lower pressure value than for the bulk form.

Attachment: Properties and Detonation performance of tetraamminecopper(II) nitrate (TACN) - a prospective green explosive.pdf (3.3MB)
This file has been downloaded 139 times

Etanol - 4-9-2024 at 14:04

Quote: Originally posted by Marcello0922

Thanks for the valuable experiments.
The critical diameter of about 20 mm at near-crystalline density is not so bad. I expected something like that. This retains the hope that a cast mixture with 50% TACN will be capable to detonate in 45-50mm diameter.
At 0.8 g/cc, I do not think that your experimental maximum VoD of 2980 m/s is very different from theoretical. It is more likely that Cheetah Code used inaccurate equalities of a state, especially molten metal copper. According to my estimates, the theoretical TACN VoD at 0.8g/cm3 should be 3200-3300m/s. This is close to your result.
However, according to your description of the synthesis, I have no certainty that your product is 100% TACN. Due to the fact that the reaction took place at the usual temperature, the unrestrained Cu(OH)NO3 could remain inside the crystals of the TACN. This could reduce the detonation parameters.
In the synthesis, I achieve the complete dissolution of the solid substance in the hot excess of water ammonia and only then crystallizes by cooling up to 0C.
Also, Dr Liptakov mentioned that crystallized from water ammonia product is a hydrate, which I personally doubt. However, it may make sense to dilute the hot solution of TACN in ammonia with alcohol and only then cool it to 0C. Maybe this will lead to a more powerful waterless TACN.
It is very good that you give speed values for base 1 and base 2. My opinion is this is not a measurement error, but valuable information that shows VoD increases or decreases. I think that the speed of the base 2 is closer to the true value for the specified diameter than the average value.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-9-2024 at 23:33

If I stated somewhere that TACN is a hydrate, it is a mistake. However, TACN can often be hygroscopic because it often contains NH4NO3 residue.
If quality recrystallization from aqueous concentrated ammonia 25% is carried out, TACN is no hygroscopic. Or only very little..... :cool:

Marcello0922 - 11-9-2024 at 09:40

As for the hygroscopicity of TACN, the crude product was washed several times with methanol, so that when kept for several months in the package, it did not change its properties and did not become covered with any residue. I also conducted tests to see if there would be a change in mass or the appearance of changes under elevated humidity conditions (about 80%). Nothing of the sort occurred.

As for the purity of TACN - the synthesis was carried out at about 50 degrees C and the whole was cooled down. XRD studies confirmed that nothing else but TACN was present. Maybe Cu(OH)NO3 is formed in small amounts and is soluble in methanol? After 2 rinses the alcohol solution was blue, after 3 it was slightly blue, after 4 it was clear.

Etanol - 11-9-2024 at 23:12

Quote: Originally posted by Marcello0922

Maybe Cu(OH)NO3 is formed in small amounts and is soluble in methanol? After 2 rinses the alcohol solution was blue, after 3 it was slightly blue, after 4 it was clear.

No. Cu(OH)NO3 is poorly soluble in water and insoluble in alcohol. Well, if XRD method is accurate enough, then everything is fine. I think the blue color of the methanol solution is caused by the fact that methanol displaces liquid aqueous solution of TACN. When the product completely lost water, the color disappears.