Boron Trioxide - 28-9-2012 at 13:21
This is my first new thread so I'm sorry if i do something wrong
I recently saw this video of perpetual motion on youtube, and I cannot see how it is really working. By no means am I proposing that perpetual energy
exists, though could someone explain how this machine is working without violating the laws of physics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqG-TL0WnjE&feature=plcp
The person first shows his initial attempts and finally the working product, the last machine is the one that finally works around 2:11 on the video.
Thanks
IrC - 28-9-2012 at 18:34
I have studied that video intensely, many times at only 1 frame per second, then 2, so on. I still do not see how it works. It takes energy to move
the magnet bars, plus the bearing friction loss. I do not know the pole orientations but I can say this. When the closest row hits bottom the small
magnet moves closer to the rows. At the top the more uniform field is kept close until this same point of rows nearly meeting reaches this point and
the longer magnet is moved away, an inverse operation. This is all I can say. I have derived bitmaps of various frames and blown them up trying to see
any secret mechanism but can find none. At some point I will try building one experimenting with pole orientations since we are left clueless to the
precise details. My brain says no way but my eyes say way. It appears to be legitimate but there must be a continuous loss of angular momentum in the
wheel. Therefore impossible. I even laid out bitmaps figuring 30 frames per second, comparing it to fixed points on the wheel, to try and determine if
even at one or two 32's of a second is the damn thing slowing down yet it does not appear to be. However the trick may all be illusion because we do
not see an uninterrupted steady video over a few minutes, i.e., long enough to make any slowing down visible. I must conclude outside of building the
thing it must be an illusion because we are not allowed to observe it over long time frames.
Or have I just lost too many brains cells with age? Or is there an invisible motor? You could build a very thin SMT circuit in the base using very
thin Li cells, pulsing coils in the base not seen. This would explain how he can turn it around seemingly to show there is no clever mechanism
tricking us. Or, the circuit could be larger, under the table with more powerful pulsing coils. He would only need to set the thing at the correct
location on top the table turning it into the proper position to get the pulsing fields correctly arranged to drive the wheel. The wooden side frames
are large enough for a circuit, batteries and coils. We have all seen those toys (desktop conversation devices) which run on principles like this.
What does anyone else here think?
Boron Trioxide - 28-9-2012 at 20:59
I agree I was stumped too when I found it,
I don't think that it is faked, though I don't think it is perpetual motion, it probably slows down after a long time or something, as for the
orientation, I believe the magnet suspended and the embedded ones are like poles facing each other, thereby attracting each other, it would spin
forward perhaps by the next set being further spaced somehow helping?
franklyn - 28-9-2012 at 23:35
A closely related post and thread
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6043#pid68215
The magnets propel as shown below. Either arrangement
shown on the left or right below can be used .The problem
is that the horizontal part in all cases goes to the end and
stops there. There is the initial impulse provided by the
weight of the cam swinging down which the magnets must
carry back up again every turn. The open question is can
the action of gravity , assist to jerk the cross bar so that
motion carries over into another turn.
It's a very elegant machine. If this is valid , it's monumental
on a scale of importance as E = MC²
In the left arrangement the horizontal bar magnet
moves upward attracted to the wide end of the
spaced magnets with all left and right side poles
oriented the same as labeled at the top end.
( all are North on the left , South on the right )
* Note switching all the poles in the entire
arrangement to their opposite the motion will
remain as before , toward the top
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . N _________ S
N . . . . . . . . . . .S . . . . . N . . . . . . .
. . . .S
畂 . . . . . . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . . . . .畂
.桳 . . . . . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . .
桳 . . . . . . . . .畂
. 栠 . . . . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . . .
畂 . . . . . . . .畂
. .摩 . . . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . . . .
畂 . . . . . . .畂
. . 琠 . . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . . . .
. 畂 . . . . . .畂
. . .敨 . . . . . 畂 . . . . . . . . . .
. 畂 . . . . .畂
. . . 映 . . . . 畂 . . . . . . . . . .
. . 畂 . . . .畂
. . . .捡 . . . 畂 . . . . . . . . . . .
. . 畂 . . .畂
. . . . 獴 . . 畂 . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . 畂 . .畂
. . _________
S _________ N
In the right arrangement the horizontal bar magnet
when situated over the wide end of the spaced magnets ,
moves downward repelled away from the wide end of the
spaced magnets with all left and right side poles oriented
the same as labeled at the top end.
( all are North on the left , South on the right )
* Note switching all the poles in the entire arrangement
to their opposite the motion will remain as before , away
from the top toward the bottom.
Hitachi experimented with a similar device that it termed a magnetic wankel motor.
That used a solenoid that pulsed to push the moving magnet past the end of the
passive section of the circular track which attracted it. Download the book below.
www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm
"EXPERIMENTS WITH SPIRAL AND WANKEL MOTORS" "Ted Loder PhD"
www.4shared.com/office/0v3Ih56Z/EXPERIMENTS-WITH-SPIRAL-AND-...
.
[Edited on 29-9-2012 by franklyn]
IrC - 28-9-2012 at 23:43
Sorry, the file link that you requested is not valid.
All I get with that last link. Why it would be gone if you just posted it I do not know.
Forgot to mention but I do not see how it can stay running since it has to work against both gravity on the cam actuated magnets and bearing friction.
What is the source of power to replace the loss? The Bearden link clearly uses a battery source to energize a coil but the video example does not.
[Edited on 9-29-2012 by IrC]
Endimion17 - 29-9-2012 at 04:07
How does it work? It uses two special ingredients - trickery and deceit. 
If something is on YouTube, it doesn't mean it actually works. Hey, people file such "patents" all the time, and they get registered although they
don't work. If they succeed in that, they'll surely fool a bunch of people on YT.
I'm sick and tired of those clowns. Every time I search about hydrogen, the results get spammed with magnet motors, "free energy" bullshit, etc.
IrC - 29-9-2012 at 07:10
"How does it work? It uses two special ingredients - trickery and deceit."
My thoughts as well, the reason I was wondering about the length of time he allowed us to watch the device rotating.
franklyn - 29-9-2012 at 08:56
An elaborate trick done as a practical prank is usually done
by engineering students with too much time on their hands.
Sophomoric motives aside , if I were to use subterfuge , it
would house a battery powered solenoid inside the hub ,
set to pulse at the appropriate points ( Top dead center )
and ( Bottom dead center ) indexed to trigger by the abrupt
change in the magnetic field where the cross bars are.
I am not dismissive nor skeptical , just realistic.
The late Carl Sagan said it best " Extraordinary claims
demand extraordinary evidence."
.
[Edited on 29-9-2012 by franklyn]
IrC - 29-9-2012 at 10:05
When I posted my musings along this line I was looking carefully at the inside of the cylinder when he turned it around to 'show no wires'. You can
see a shiny small cylinder the diameter of a dime sticking out a quarter inch or so. It looks like a plated NdFeB magnet. Got me wondering about what
might be inside in the form of circuit, coils, battery in the wooden side frames. Not visible in pics above. If you could turn the cylinder around in
pic 1 and look inside it is visible, see the video and stop frame it. Look at the lower portion inside the cylinder in the pic. I admit maybe not
needed if a ring of magnets is around the cylinder but I see no need for whatever the shiny disc is inside the cylinder, see pic.
A toy along these lines :
http://www.officeplayground.com/Asteroid-Perpetual-Motion-P1...
[Edited on 9-29-2012 by IrC]
franklyn - 29-9-2012 at 10:28
article on " Magnetic Wankel " in Popular Science June 1979
http://books.google.com/books?id=fAEAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80
[Edited on 30-9-2012 by franklyn]
franklyn - 9-10-2012 at 08:26
More on this interesting device _
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:_Mechanical_Opener_fo...
How to make your own _
www.overunity.org.uk/showthread.php?527-Flexible-V-Track
Say it isn't so _
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13587#pid1750...
.
[Edited on 10-10-2012 by franklyn]