Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Bromine Eye Inflammation

Bromine Eye Inflammation

ScienceHideout - 20-8-2012 at 18:44

Today I was working with bromine and now my lower eyelid seems inflamed...

I was wondering if this had happened to anyone else and what you guys did to treat it.

Thanks!

Endimion17 - 21-8-2012 at 03:12

Long time ago when I got slightly poisoned with bromine (my fault), all I got was an inflammation of upper respiratory system. It was like a flu.
Are you sure there's a causative connection between the bromine and your eyelid? That would imply skin contact.
Bromine, if not touched, does damage to the respiratory system, destroying the mucous membranes, starting an immune response and making way for the pathogens to come to the party.

One inflamed eyelid and no respiratory problems... that doesn't look like typical bromine poisoning to me.

Ephesian - 21-8-2012 at 03:20

I think we should have a hypochondriac forum. You're probably fine, if not go to the hospital and seek professional help. Sorry for the sarcasm, I don't think we are much help to you online. Go see a doctor if it gets worse.

ScienceHideout - 21-8-2012 at 03:51

I am sorry, but I know that somethimg is wrong. Chemical conjunctivitis can be caused by fumes. there is just no other reason for my eyelid to be hurting. After the night, it is still swollen, but not worse...

Thanks, SH

Ephesian - 21-8-2012 at 04:27

Im not sure where you reside but I think a visit to the doctor is a wise decision. Good luck! Hope all is well.

Endimion17 - 21-8-2012 at 07:10

Did your eye get into contact with a puff of bromine?
What I don't understand is how can an eyelid get inflamed, and the nose is spared? Nose is the first thing that gets hurt.

Put on some gauze soaked with chamomile tea. Not very cold. Tap water cold. Let it stay for half an hour. Repeat few times a day.

If it tends to get worse, like a discharge or more swelling, go to the hospital.

unionised - 21-8-2012 at 11:57

Endimion, can I just check on a couple of things?
First, what are your medical qualifications? and second
Do you have suitable insurance to practice?

Sciencehideout
Go to the doctor.

Endimion17 - 21-8-2012 at 12:16

Even if I tell you, I can't verify it. Therefore, it's futile to argue about it on teh internets.

I gave him a perfectly reasonable advice. Eyelids can become inflamed if something falls into one's eye, or if there's been exposure to allergens like pollen, or if some kind of insect (tiny mosquito) landed there. Sudden swelling can occur with mosquito bites, especially introduced breeds. They inject the toxin into the skin, where it remains relatively immobilized, and when you rub it, it penetrates the intercellular space and trouble (tissue breakup and inflammation) starts.

Bromine doesn't cause tissue swelling unless there's been a direct exposure, and even then, burns are quite obvious.
If there's been a significant total exposure, upper respiratory system would be the first to fail because it's much more sensitive.

He didn't inform us whether he walked into a plume of bromine vapor. He just said he was "working with bromine". Allergy to bromine is a rare thing, and even then, you wouldn't get one swollen eyelid.
Also, I doubt this is his first time being exposed to elemental bromine.

I'm just deducing from the facts and the info he gave us here.
Chamomile tea is a known anti-inflammatory agent with mild action and it can't mess things up. But if things get worse by themselves, it's obvious one should go to the doctor.

[Edited on 21-8-2012 by Endimion17]

Mailinmypocket - 21-8-2012 at 13:07

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17

Bromine doesn't cause tissue swelling unless there's been a direct exposure, and even then, burns are quite obvious.
If there's been a significant total exposure, upper respiratory system would be the first to fail because it's much more sensitive.

He didn't inform us whether he walked into a plume of bromine vapor. He just said he was "working with bromine". Allergy to bromine is a rare thing, and even then, you wouldn't get one swollen eyelid.
Also, I doubt this is his first time being exposed to elemental bromine.

I'm just deducing from the facts and the info he gave us here.
Chamomile tea is a known anti-inflammatory agent with mild action and it can't mess things up. But if things get worse by themselves, it's obvious one should go to the doctor.

[Edited on 21-8-2012 by Endimion17]

Is there any way that you in any way sould have gotten bromine in your eye sciencehideout? Even just a small amount... Or if maybe you were making bromine and somehow got peroxide, or sulfuric acid or some other precursor into your eye?

A long time ago I made some bromine and had a bit of a runaway and overwhelmed the whole setup because I added the H2O2 too fast, I tried to tolerate the vapors for as long as possible while shutting down the thing. A few times I had to exit the room, let the fan work for a few minutes and then take a breath and go back in.

Maybe not the most ideal way to handle the situation but I have never made that mistake again...All this to say that my eyes didn't burn after the experience (let only only one of them) but my nose and throat did quite badly and all I could smell for the next hour was bromine. You probably had something get in your eye... but I doubt it is bromine :-/

Not to say that you shouldn't go the the doctor of course but just keep an "eye"

on it.

[Edited on 21-8-2012 by Mailinmypocket]

[Edited on 21-8-2012 by Mailinmypocket]

Ozone - 21-8-2012 at 15:53

Could be a random sty?

Hexavalent - 24-8-2012 at 13:03

ScienceHideout...were you handling the bromine in a fume cupboard, and, if so, what position was the sash in?

unionised - 24-8-2012 at 14:52

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17

I gave him a perfectly reasonable advice.

[Edited on 21-8-2012 by Endimion17]

Specifically your advice was cold chamomile tea.
Can I ask for the details of the peer reviewed test on that?

"Chamomile tea is a known anti-inflammatory agent with mild action and it can't mess things up. "
http://allergicliving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1597

cyanureeves - 24-8-2012 at 15:45

i have long suspected fumes as the culprits of itching and minor swelling around the eyes when around chemicals like chlorates,especially the bottom lid and the corners of the eyes. i think its because its always moist there but i always wash lightly as to not infect the area by scratching or hard scrubbing and just dab a little bit of lavender oil rather than cortisone cream. cortisone cream draws too much attention from people who already know i'm into chemicals and will jump at the chance to blame everything on my hobby.lavender oil will not fight off infection but will keep you from itching.

Endimion17 - 25-8-2012 at 02:23

Quote: Originally posted by unionised

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17

I gave him a perfectly reasonable advice.

[Edited on 21-8-2012 by Endimion17]

Sorry, but that's nitpicking. Chamomile is everywhere. Baby shampoos, hair gels, toothpaste. The whole cosmetic industry exploits it. Freak allergies do exist and I see absolutely no need to warn about it. If he's allergic to chamomile, he probably knows it.
It's like freaking out if someone advises to eat a bar of real chocolate to get a mild mood boost. If he's allergic to chocolate, he won't eat it.
Do you have any peer review test on advices such as putting ice pack on a bruise, or similar benign situations? Because, who knows, one might fall into an anaphylactic shock... cause some people are allergic to water.

It's like putting warning on can of peanuts: "WARNING! CONTAINS PEANUTS!"
because some people are allergic to peanuts.

unionised - 25-8-2012 at 04:24

Good point (but not the one you thought you were making)
"Chamomile is everywhere. Baby shampoos, hair gels, toothpaste. The whole cosmetic industry exploits it. "
If chamomile actually worked as an anti inflammatory then it would be a drug and regulated by the FDA.
It wouldn't be everywhere.

Now, do you actually have any evidence that it works?
(Please note that evidence is not the plural of anecdote).

Endimion17 - 25-8-2012 at 04:54

It is not listed as "specific anti-inflammatory agent" because it's not a compound, but a plant/extract. But it does have certain properties and was used a lot.
That has nothing to do with it being everywhere. Cocoa and coffee have a measurable impact on human behaviour and they're everywhere. Using your logic, the fact they're everywhere is a proof they aren't pharmacologically active and that's not true.

There are numerous non-bullshit references on Wikipedia about its medicinal use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamomile#Medicinal_use

The case with chamomile's properties is not like one of those cases where someone finds about some weird exotic plant and starts talking it cures cancer.
For god sake, trashing chamomile is like trashing lingonberry for its diuretic properties. It's a known thing, not a myth.

unionised - 25-8-2012 at 05:23

"There are numerous non-bullshit references on Wikipedia about its medicinal use."
And if you follow the links through you get things like this
"Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center makes no warranties nor express or implied representations whatsoever regarding the accuracy, completeness, timeliness, comparative or controversial nature, or usefulness of any information contained or referenced on this Web site. Memorial Sloan-Kettering does not assume any risk whatsoever for your use of this website or the information contained herein. Health-related information changes frequently and therefore information contained on this Web site may be outdated, incomplete or incorrect. Statements made about products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Use of this Web site does not create an expressed or implied physician-patient relationship."

or this "Chamomile can interact with various kinds of medication, including blood-thinning medications, cholesterol drugs, sedatives, birth control pills and certain antifungal drugs. Tell your doctor about any other supplements or drugs you are taking before drinking any kind of chamomile tea. Do not use chamomile tea as a replacement for getting medical attention or any treatment your doctor has prescribed."

Which is hardly reassuring.

However if you try hard enough you can find real scientific papers like this

http://www.cvzv.sk/slju/11_3/Fabian-SJAS-3-2011.pdf

Which, (if you look at the data in Table 1)
Shows a small and inconsistent effect of chamomile (Oil, not tea) on inflamed rats paws and a much larger effect from conventional treatment with dexamethasone (i.e. conventional treatment).

(the only effect that's statistically significant at p= 1% is for an effect from administration of 2500 ppm oil in their food- but it's not present at 1250 or 5000 ppm which is weird.)

So the OP has two choices.
Go to a doctor and get a known treatment that will work, or use chamomile which, if you eat enough of the oil sometimes works for some assays (but not others) at some doses (but not others).

(Obviously, I'm not claiming that steroids are devoid of side effects- but at least those are known and documented.)

"For god sake, trashing chamomile is like trashing lingonberry for its diuretic properties. It's a known thing, not a myth. "
And, once again, we have an assertion- but without any proper evidence.
Can you show us a proper peer reviewed paper to support that please?

Endimion17 - 25-8-2012 at 05:46

Why would anyone want to go to a doctor for a small inflammation? Do you run to the hospital for every small cut or bruise, or cold, or a bug bite? I don't, and I've got a pretty good state health insurance. Why should I run to my doctor if it's not a classic conjuctivitis that grows worse? He would say: "Put on some sugarless chamomile tea soaked gauze on it, and here are some antibiotics", because it's easier to stuff me with antibiotics than to make a swab test.

BTW this is funny, because I'm one of those skeptics that would otherwise be on your side, but your skepticism is improper and a huge overkill.

If you're not trolling, better call FDA the next time someone offers you a cup of coffee to help you with fatigue or a piece of chocolate to help you with your mood, or sugar water to boost your energy, and ask for a peer review study.

unionised - 25-8-2012 at 08:12

"Why would anyone want to go to a doctor for a small inflammation? "
To make it smaller.
" Do you run to the hospital for every small cut or bruise, or cold, or a bug bite?"
No.
" I don't, and I've got a pretty good state health insurance. "
Lucky you! I have the NHS.

" Why should I run to my doctor if it's not a classic conjuctivitis that grows worse?"
To check to see if it is something that gets worse and/ or to get something to make it better.

" He would say: "Put on some sugarless chamomile tea soaked gauze on it, and here are some antibiotics","
Really?
"because it's easier to stuff me with antibiotics than to make a swab test."
Indeed it is: So what?

"your skepticism is improper and a huge overkill."
Then you should have no problem actually demonstrating the validity of your point by providing a peer reviewed paper.
Why have you not done that?

"FDA the next time someone offers you a cup of coffee to help you with fatigue or a piece of chocolate ..."
The FDA's approach to foods is different from its approach to things marketed as drugs.

So, that's enough with the nonsense. Provide some evidence for your assertions or keep quiet.

Endimion17 - 25-8-2012 at 10:44

You've managed to take a simple advice (which didn't even include "don't go to the hospital") analogue to "take some baking soda to reduce heartburn" to a "chewing blessed lemons picked from the western tree in the midnight cures infertility".

You say the FDA's approach to foods is different from its approach to things marketed as drugs? Chamomile tea is a type of food, and that coffee/chocolate advice was not about nutrition. Talking about fallacies...

You're clearly trolling and I'm out of the discussion.

unionised - 25-8-2012 at 11:17

Chamomile tea is a type of food,
Not if you stick it in your eye.
I take it that this "You're clearly trolling and I'm out of the discussion. " means that you can't actually supply any data to support your assertion.
Fair enough.
Bye.

ScienceHideout - 4-9-2012 at 11:38

Hey everyone!

I forgot to give you all an update!

I am completely fine.... It was completely non related to bromine. Doctor said it was just an eye infection- interesting. Anyways, he gave me eyedrops and now I am fine!

Thanks for your concerns!

Endimion17 - 4-9-2012 at 14:56

Told you so.

unionised - 5-9-2012 at 12:43

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17

Told you so.

In the very real sense that you said "Why would anyone want to go to a doctor for a small inflammation? "
He went to the doctor and got treated.