Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Question about Chemistry Supply Companies

tom_servo - 21-4-2012 at 20:33

Pardon my ignorance but is there a reason that companies like Sigma Aldrich don't sell chemicals to individuals?
As far as legal reasons that is.
I ask because my girlfriend and I are considering opening an online chemical supply house specializing in smaller quantities.
Also making available scheduled chemicals within the threshold amounts, not with intent for people to make drugs or bombs but for hobby chemists that are not able to procure things they would actually need, so no Phenylacetone but yes Nitroethane.

And, if I do make this happen, will you all be my patrons?

Magic Muzzlet - 21-4-2012 at 20:54

I think that you need to think about what you have posted on this public forum, and what you continue to post. You have a thread about your issues with making one very particular nitropropene, with real time commentary about trying to reduce it to an illegal drug.
I think before you discuss your personal plans any further with the world, you need to have a hard think about what the hell it is you are doing!

The reason Sigma won't sell to individuals is partly because of people doing what you have done. Not that I am particularly against what it is you have tried to make, but because if you are talking about it on the Internet so freely you will probably be caught and make chemical aquisition harder for everyone and maybe the companies you bought your reagents from will be hit with consequences as well.

Just saying.

tom_servo - 21-4-2012 at 21:12

well, firstly my name is not mentioned any where on here. Secondly, the company will be in my partners name as a person with multiple felonies is not allowed to own a business in the marvelous country. 3rd most, I don't see any reason for me to "get caught" since A) I'm not the one doing this a friend is, and B) I/He has no intentions on "dealing," Just making a small quantity for personal use. Which btw, his impatience caused him to ruin.
Personally, any of the chemicals I care to use are totally accessible for me. This company is just something to help out a small community of hobby chemists and give my g/f something to do since she doesn't have to work a "day job"

watson.fawkes - 22-4-2012 at 07:11

Quote: Originally posted by tom_servo  
well, firstly my name is not mentioned any where on here. Secondly, the company will be in my partners name as a person with multiple felonies is not allowed to own a business in the marvelous country. 3rd most, I don't see any reason for me to "get caught" since A) I'm not the one doing this a friend is, and B) I/He has no intentions on "dealing," Just making a small quantity for personal use. Which btw, his impatience caused him to ruin.
Personally, any of the chemicals I care to use are totally accessible for me. This company is just something to help out a small community of hobby chemists and give my g/f something to do since she doesn't have to work a "day job"
1) Just because your name isn't mentioned here doesn't mean that it can't be figured out with some modest effort. Step 1. Give NSL to hosting company for SmDB. (NSL=National Security Letter) They provide IP address. Step 2. Give NSL to IP service provider. They provide account information. Now while I'm sure that eventually someone is going to grow a pair and get the whole NSL regime overturned for flagrantly violating the 4th and 14th Amendements (search and seizure, due process of law, respectively), the de facto law of the land today is that this can all be discovered in secret.

Step 2. Felons are allowed to own property, including businesses. There may be jurisdictions where various matters involving incorporation are restricted; legal research is required.

Step 3. If you are not doing this, and your felon friend is, then you are also doing it because you know about it. At the very least you'll be susceptible to a conspiracy charge.
Quote: Originally posted by tom_servo  
And, if I do make this happen, will you all be my patrons?
Absolutely not! Why would I want to end up in your database? It is far too likely to be seized and investigated.

The biggest mistake you are self-promoting is your stated focus. If you focus that way, it's equivalent to painting a target on yourself. This is true more widely than your stated focus; it's already been happening with pyrotechnics.

GreenD - 23-4-2012 at 07:15

go for it.

Antimony Pentafluoride - 23-4-2012 at 09:36

Quote: Originally posted by tom_servo  
Pardon my ignorance but is there a reason that companies like Sigma Aldrich don't sell chemicals to individuals?
As far as legal reasons that is.


Liability concerns obviously

tom_servo - 23-4-2012 at 12:31

IDK about that, I mean gas stations aren't liable if someone fills their gas can and drinks it right?

Antimony Pentafluoride - 23-4-2012 at 13:14

Quote: Originally posted by tom_servo  
gas stations aren't liable if someone fills their gas can and drinks it right?


Nice analogy :D

I'm not actually sure the answer to that.

I'd recommend carefully reviewing the legal restrictions you'll have to deal with: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/govpubs/pidcms.htm is a good place to start imo

Selling listed chemicals requires a lot of paperwork, and the associated fees are quite expensive. I'm not an expert, but I have several years of experience working in an undergraduate lab (don't judge me lol) and there is a significant cost (both in time and money) associated with purchasing listed chemicals even for a legitimate educational institution. For example, we would need to apply for a permit if we were to purchase iodine.

If you're girlfriend is serious about this, she shouldn't plan on distributing listed chemicals. And I don't just mean the DEA list. Pyrotechnics chemicals are watched and restricted as well. From a business standpoint, if you are going to sell to individuals, you must take steps to limit liability (and culpability!).

fledarmus - 24-4-2012 at 04:51

Quote: Originally posted by tom_servo  
IDK about that, I mean gas stations aren't liable if someone fills their gas can and drinks it right?


Not yet anyway. At least, not until a jury of "reasonable people" can be convinced that a "reasonable person" would not be aware that gasoline should not be ingested, and that the gasoline station was negligent in not providing large written warnings with the appropriate graphic (for people who can't read) warning them that it isn't a good idea to drink gasoline. The current warnings being not sufficiently informative, of course.

GreenD - 24-4-2012 at 06:42

If you follow all the rules, and make sure you can account for every dime in and out of your business, then there isn't a problem.

The fact you bring up this post makes me to believe you have something to hide though :D

tom_servo - 25-4-2012 at 04:06

well could that same gas station be held accountable for someone buying camping fuel there and making meth with it? I've never seen the Do not use for meth sign near the coleman.

As far as something to hide, not really although as I said the business wouldnt be mine technically, I would just help get her established.

Honestly the reason to even start said company is to provide things that these smaller guys wont sell and larger guys wont sell to individuals. It would be on the up and up but any thing to be beneficial to people and not big brother we would support.

Like i said there are thresholds on products, most places wont sell them but you can own up to X amount of kg of them.