Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Accidents...

Accidents...

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Phantom - 4-4-2012 at 13:28

Well, I decided to make a new topic about accidents so we can learn from other people accidents. This is the place where you can write down maybe your own "mistakes" so we can discuss them. This is what every pyro should think about it and take it very seriously. I think everybody heard the story of "Phone"... 800g+ APAN went off in his face! Probably the most dramatic documented pyro accident ever. I have seen some pretty brutal videos on the net about people getting hurt by some HE, mainly primary, most likely TATP. I hope that biginners read this topic as well. Sometimes you just not reailse what are you really doing and this kinda stuff can easily kill you or injure you very badly. So please feel free to comment and share your accidents with energetics.

For the biginners, here is how to make some TATP : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdei-g3FFBQ

This video just shocked me. What I know from the tags it was ANFO with miedziankit and a HMTD cap. I think the fuse was extremly short or a spark went inside the cap before the fuse could finish it's job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bkYZzdYSY&feature=g-u-u...

Pretty funny huh? Go think about it...

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by Phantom]

[Edited on 4-4-2012 by Phantom]

Berrilium - 4-4-2012 at 14:05

I've never had a 'mistake' per say. But I have come close to mistakes when I get absorbed I what I'm doing, eg putting Tatp into a charge and having open flame boiling something close by.

caterpillar - 4-4-2012 at 15:59

I've already wrote about the most stupid and dangerous experiment of mine. I made a charge (AN + dinitronaphtalene), dig a hole and put some mercury fulminate into it. There was no separate detonator. Then I put piece of paper with KNO3 and ignited it. Sparkles, flying from burned paper ignited my charge (200 gr approximately) when I was standing near it (one meter probably). Another idiotism I demonstrated when I put my nose into a bottle with solution of NaOCl. It was like an impact on my lungs. I was unable to breath for some time.

Had a Few.

Bot0nist - 4-4-2012 at 17:43

When first starting, I tried to clean up a 200ml conc. H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> with a towel. Note to others. Cotton towel + Hot, conc. sulfuric acid = smoking pile of carbon and a room full of choking gasses/mist.
_______________
I once spilled RFNA on my nitrile gloved hand and up my arm. I hastily stripped off the glove and ran to the sink to wash up. I turned back around moments later to find the glove popping and spitting angry red fumes and flames about. Had this gone on a bit longer unattended, I have no doubt a lab fire would have ensued.
_______________
The last time I made TCAP (many years ago) I neutralized and dried the compound on a coffee paper. I tilted the filter to allow the white powder to pour off to be weighed. Half way through the "pouring" the whole lot (~1gram) detonated, shredding the paper, and giving me one hell of a fright. I still do not know if friction was to play, but I suspect static, as it was a very dry day out. Maybe I just looked at it wrong

. No injury though. I did have on goggles at least. I never synthesize organic peroxides anymore, and I limit my work with primaries to < a few hundred milligrams, and not very frequently.
_________________
Recently, I have spilled a few oil baths. No catastrophe, but one hell of a mess.

[Edited on 5-4-2012 by Bot0nist]

DougTheMapper - 4-4-2012 at 18:46

Quite a few "Oh s**t" moments (unfortunately) come to mind:

The first was making organic peroxides in the first place, namely 50+ mL batches of MEKP. I never had any "accidents" per se but it scares me to think of what could have happened.

Pic related: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=163845&...

Later in my "kewl" phase I ball-milled anhydrous CuSO4 with magnesium turnings WITH STEEL BALL BEARING MEDIA for like 4 days straight with the house (not mine, my parent's!) being totally empty at times throughout the day. Nothing bad happened, made one hell of a bang when it was done but in hindsight that was a very stupid thing to have done.

Around the same time, I tried nitrating acetone peroxide which ended in a violent runaway. Luckily it was test-tube scale and I was wearing quite a lot of gear. It was, however, indoors and in an unventilated basement room.

When I first got sulfuric acid, the first thing I did was make a nitrating mixture with KNO3 in a shot glass. It began to fume in the air (HNO3 vapors) and I was curious as to what was happening. Like a fool I took a whiff and it nearly put me on the floor - tunnel vision, stars, the whole bit. I was home alone.

Later, when I first got "real glass" in 19/22, I experienced an unstoppable 500mL haloform reaction between Ca(ClO)2 and acetone which boiled significant amounts of chloroform into the (still unventilated) room as I attempted to salvage any yield I could.

I never bothered to buy keck clips for my 19/22 glass and TWICE I've had a chlorine generator experience too much back pressure and pop a joint. Again, no ventilation - just a scrubber and NaHCO3 solution in a spray bottle.

I also blew a joint once recovering some methanol from a benzocaine synth. I forgot to add boiling chips and it was bumping like crazy... decided to ignore it. Whooops.

I also had a bumping issue with an azeotropic distillation of a large batch run of HNO3. I stupidly left the distillation unattended. I had broken my 105-deg vacuum adapter so I just had the end of the condenser dripping into the storage bottle - there was nothing to catch the surge when it began bumping like crazy... Hot 68.4% HNO3 all over the (wood!!) bench and floor!

Despite this, I still have all my digits, my my mind, my lungs, my house, and my lab. I will never repeat these mistakes- they are all examples of dangerous learning experiences. Maybe someone can find this ramble useful.

-DTM

Vikascoder - 4-4-2012 at 19:30

One time i nitrated my cellulose . The remaining acid in which i nitrated cellulose was left on my table . I then added some piece of zinc in it . It was such a vigrous reaction that acid split every where and the container broke down with heat as it was an ordinary glass beaker. Further more i added potassium chloride in it and my whole room was full of nasty fumes . Since then i never played with a nitrating mix

Bot0nist - 4-4-2012 at 20:16

Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper

Quite a few "Oh s**t" moments (unfortunately) come to mind:

The first was making organic peroxides in the first place, namely 50+ mL batches of MEKP. I never had any "accidents" per se but it scares me to think of what could have happened.

Pic related: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=163845&...

Doug, when I first came to this site, I made and posted an experiment with MEKP and every-time I saw that wine bottle neck filled with the oily monster I thought "Holy Sh*t, what if?" Even when wet with MEK it still makes a horrific, violent fire ball. And that's just 0.5ml! You had balls, my friend. I was scared and used tiny HDPE test tubes and made 5ml batches with what surely looked like an aliens, eskimo, space suit on the whole time.

caterpillar - 4-4-2012 at 21:13

Three not very significant incidents. I prepared mixture of R-salt + AN. One week later violent reaction suddenly began. Gray smoke and viscous boiling liquid instead of plastic bottle. I was happy- my parents was not at home. Once I bring some kalium picrate to university. It is nice compound and we added small pieces into cigarettes. Piece of paper with 30-40 gr of aforementioned compound was in my hand when another boy ignited small piece of it at the distance about 3-4 meter. That small piece like a rocket missed heap in my hand. I was lucky at that moment- had its trajectory been 5 cm lower, it would have ignited picrate in my hand. Another small incident- I ignited few gr of mixture of KClO3 + Al with a match. Ball of fire and I lost some skin from my fingers.

EatsKewls - 4-4-2012 at 21:24

The flask is full of MEKP? God damn, although I knew a naughty kid by the name of LordEmrone, who had made 3L bottles of MEKP and stored them in his basement. I'm sure you remember his story of MEKP accident he had with 50ml. Somehow he got to keep his hand.

The most unforgivable accident to have is with ignition. Letting sparks fly into the device is just unacceptable. Moosemanty on YT blew off his arm with 10g TATP in CO2 cartridge, this kid (aka "The Screamer") clearly had the same issue.

Few peoople hurt themselves cutting HMTD straw, they know who they are. Another kid on RS had an HMTD cap in his pocket and it detonated.

Anybody's guess whether it was pressure/friction or static. Needless to say, he was very unhappy with the hole that made in his leg and the bruising his junk took.

I've only had an accident this past summer with the most unlikely energetic- thermite. Was trying to light stoichiometric MnO2 thermite with some Mg filiings mixed with KNSU. Had no luck for like half hour. After failing another time, I waited 30 seconds and went to pick up the small note card holding 2g of thermite. As I was getting to the door to through it out, I saw a tiny spark, what must have been reinvigorated Mg due to the breeze of air, and the whole thing lit up in my hand. Felt like someone dunked me in the oven. Instantly the pain hit me and I hustled my arse to the tap to run a cold water on it. Did that for 15 minutes, because every time I'd pull the hand away, it would throb terribly. Was pretty concerned to the condition of the hand as it increased in size and I could see the two blisters formed. The burns were 3rd degree, but only a dime in size each and on the palm and finger. After half hour pain was barely noticeable. To dull any further pain, I took a shot of Whisky, lit up a cannon and walked off laughing in the sunset. Like a bauce.....

simply RED - 4-4-2012 at 22:11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdei-g3FFBQ

Looks much like fake. A CO2 with AP will burst into hundreds of scrapnels having the ability to penetrate at least a few centimeters into a human body, thus the main injuries will come from these scrapnels with very possible lethal effect or months long hospitalization.
Even 1 cm in diameter, 5-6 cm long, 1 mm thick steel pipe with AP has tremendous fragmentation effect and fragments from it can kill anyone in a few meters radius if hit the head.
I have done the experiment with such pipe piece, before 13 years, I put the AP filled pipe (about 4 grams AP) in a 20 liters tin can from chiese, in the middle of the can and detonated it (the can walls were like 0.5-1mm thick). The can was pierced all over, with tens of holes in it, the scrapnels that flew from it, hit a wall 1 meter away and penetrated about 3-4 mm in the wall (gypsum).

[Edited on 5-4-2012 by simply RED]

Adas - 4-4-2012 at 22:16

I remember two accidents with hydrogen:

Once I decided to make hydrogen burner, so I took a jar, I made a little hole on the lid, filled the jar with NaOH + Al + water and waited till the jar fills with H2. Unfortunately, I didn't wait long enough

When I lit it up, the hydrogen inside detonated throwing the lid up and scaring me to death.

Another one: I filled a balloon with hydrogen (made by aforementioned method) and I was to inhale it to have that nice voice

I put water into the balloon and shaked to remove the NaOH particles. As I found out later, this was not enough. I had a strange feeling in lungs, my hands were shaking and I lost my taste (for about a day). The next day I had sore throat.

Phantom - 5-4-2012 at 00:48

Quote: Originally posted by simply RED

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdei-g3FFBQ

Looks much like fake. A CO2 with AP will burst into hundreds of scrapnels having the ability to penetrate at least a few centimeters into a human body, thus the main injuries will come from these scrapnels with very possible lethal effect or months long hospitalization.
Even 1 cm in diameter, 5-6 cm long, 1 mm thick steel pipe with AP has tremendous fragmentation effect and fragments from it can kill anyone in a few meters radius if hit the head.

It is real, go chewck out his other videos.

simply RED - 5-4-2012 at 00:57

Then he is ultimately lucky his skull did not become perforated like a strainer.

Phantom - 5-4-2012 at 01:02

I had a couple runaways during the nitration of pentaerithritol.

Once I had a runaway with HMTD. I didn't cool what is more I was stirring it so the crystals would form faster. This was my very first runaway so I was a bit scared. I ran out to the backyard holding the HMTD and quickly put it on the floor. I went inside the house to get some water in a bowl but it was too late. Now the floor outside is white because of the hydrogen peroxide.

simply RED - 5-4-2012 at 01:12

PGDN + AN mix being extremely easy to make, about as powerful as TNT, very safe and sensitive to a blasting cap solves the amateur problem of making dangerous ammounts of primary...

[Edited on 5-4-2012 by simply RED]

Goorlap - 5-4-2012 at 02:22

I once made a tiny bit of AP that exploded too early, no damage done to my body

, fuse was too short. I think a spark set it off prematurely.

froot - 5-4-2012 at 02:51

When I was about 14 my buddy and I were having some pyro fun with match heads. The device was 2 x 1/2" bolts each screwed into either end of a nut with a piece of phospherous striker and ignition material scraped off from 2 match heads in between. We threw these things into the air and when they hit the road they would explode sending the bolts flying. One of these went off in my hand while I was assembling it and rendered my index finger opened up like a peeled banana.

This was caused by a minute amount of OTC energetic material compared to the things kids are playing with these days and I shudder to think of the amount of unneccessary risk involved.

Kids enjoy pyro and they will play in that pen regardless of the rules and consequences. I think it would be a progressive thing to do to provide a controlled envoronment where kids can satisfy their curiosity. Teach them the chemistry, if they're going to play then teach them what compounds to play with and which to stay away from, and show them why. Show them where these compounds belong and where they should never be found, how to treat them, and, controversially, how to assemble a firework safely with all precautions in mind. This idea may be frowned apon but I would bet that pyro accidents would decline.

[Edited on 5-4-2012 by froot]

Bhaskar - 5-4-2012 at 03:37

This accident which I recall, is the only major one which Ihave had...till now.
It happened last year on a raining day. I, foolishly, without wearing any eye protection, cut out a piece of metallic sodium(1gm) and threw it onto the wet ground.
It did not react like it should have with water, but turned into a molten sphere.
I waited impatiently, and, at last, took my 5cm spatula(or whatever it's called) and poked it at the unreacting sodium.
It got stuck to it, and, after axactly 3 seconds, exploded violently with a bang.
And the best part is...all that molten sodium and it's hydroxide flew into my right eye, blinding me instantly. I ran to the sink to wash it and my face started to burn as if hot charcoal was thrown onto it. For the next few days, my eye kept releasing liquids and pus and it became red. In the morning when I would wake up and I would find my eye stuck and had to open it manually. My specs, which I was luckily wearing, got scarred and rendered useless, I had to get a new one. After 7 days, I made a full recovery.
I believe that I have learnt my lesson of wearing eyeware while handling energetics... :cool:

Phantom - 5-4-2012 at 04:15

Wait, so you are still blind on your right eye? That's some serious shit. I remember when I have grinded some natrium metal with some mercury. It exploded and almost hit my face and I did not have any gear on my face. Luckily everything was okay. By the way this was at school with the teacher

Vikascoder - 6-4-2012 at 07:41

these days i was making some chlorate gunpowder i have made about a kilogram of it . to check it power i burned 3 grams of gunpowder 2 mitres away from my one kilo of gunpowder heap . it was so powerful that the other 1kg heap also caught fire . there was a very loud bang and a small crater in the ground . luckily i was at a very safe distance and i was totally safe but my neighbours started peepin in my ground what happened . chlorate gun powder is very powerful its good to keep it at very safe place donot burn anything near it

niertap - 7-4-2012 at 01:49

I once nitrated phenol with acetic anhydride/conc. HNO3. I was using an Erynmyer flask with a rubber septum. After slowly adding all the reagents into the well cooled flask and stirring for a while I let it warm back up to purify it. Apparently it was far too cold and the reaction barely got anywhere. After it warmed up a little it warmed up alot(and quite quickly). Blew the rubber off and sprayed/boiled everywhere. To this day I bet there are still splotches of missing "chemical resistant" paint in and around the fume hood. Oh university. Luckily I was unsupervised and was able to pretend like nothing happened after cleaning up. I recommend wearing safety glasses, having a large flask of ice water to quench emergencies, and to NEVER use a rubber septum for nitrations.

Fossil - 7-4-2012 at 15:27

My worst accident is not as severe as the last few but could have ended worse.

I was making some Cl2 in my backyard out of boredom. So i froze some bleach in a test tube to slow the reaction as I poured some hydrochloric acid in. This worked quite well and i stoppered it with a tube leading the gas into a second test tube that was in an ice bath. I then placed the first tube in a beaker that had very hot water in it to speed up the reaction. The only thing is that the second test tube was also stoppered.

The pressure built up quite a bit until the stopper on the first test tube, where the reaction was taking place, blew out. A cloud of chlorine gas shout out along with some Ca(OH)2 along with some unreacted bleach and hydrochloric acid.

Unfortunately for me I was very close when this happened, roughly a foot and a half away. I was fortunately not leaning over it.

The result was my sinuses burning like shit and a day long headache, but i did learn a valuable lesson.

killswitch - 7-4-2012 at 20:47

That first video of some Eastern European kid blowing his fucking hand off was taken down within a few hours of this thread's posting. Did anyone save it? Its instructional value is beyond measure.

TheMessenger - 7-4-2012 at 23:50

The closest call I ever had was dissolving half a pound of ETN for recrystallization in my condo on a natural gas stove with a double boiler. I decided to pour the ethanol in right out of the gallon can... And you know how those cans love to spill. After pouring a little ethanol in I saw that it was about to spill. I tilted the can toward me and as I was pulling it away the flame hit the can top shooting up from some spilled droplets, it went inside, and shot flaming ethanol into my face.

So... Things are going great at this point. I have half a pound of flaming ETN and my head is on fire... I quickly smother the flames on my head and grab the fire extinguisher and kill the flames over the ETN. Luckily it was still just a low temperature alcohol fire that takes around a minute to ignite ETN powder... Not really that dangerous unless not taken care of within twenty seconds.

I then discovered I was barely burned at all and went onward with the recrystallization after cleaning up the area.

[Edited on 8-4-2012 by TheMessenger]

Phantom - 8-4-2012 at 01:27

Quote: Originally posted by killswitch

That first video of some Eastern European kid blowing his fucking hand off was taken down within a few hours of this thread's posting. Did anyone save it? Its instructional value is beyond measure.

YouTube > Search > Hand blown off

Phantom - 8-4-2012 at 12:46

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

these days i was making some chlorate gunpowder i have made about a kilogram of it . to check it power i burned 3 grams of gunpowder 2 mitres away from my one kilo of gunpowder heap . it was so powerful that the other 1kg heap also caught fire . there was a very loud bang and a small crater in the ground . luckily i was at a very safe distance and i was totally safe but my neighbours started peepin in my ground what happened . chlorate gun powder is very powerful its good to keep it at very safe place donot burn anything near it

Lol, this happened to me with a big cup of meal powder

Goorlap - 9-4-2012 at 02:35

Another accident I had was with some unneutralized MHN drying on the stove. (For sensitivity testing purposes, most of my MHN batch was neutralized)
Next morning I woke up, and there was a strange smell and smoke in my living room

It apparently exploded because of the extra heat of sunlight.

Bhaskar - 9-4-2012 at 03:27

Quote: Originally posted by Phantom

Wait, so you are still blind on your right eye? That's some serious shit. I remember when I have grinded some natrium metal with some mercury. It exploded and almost hit my face and I did not have any gear on my face. Luckily everything was okay. By the way this was at school with the teacher

I wrote there that I mad a full recovery in a week!
Also, regarding your comment, I have tried it, it's very reactive with the evolution of mercury vapour and sizzing. Doing that same reaction with an increase in surface area will have landed some bad results!

Bhaskar - 9-4-2012 at 03:30

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

Thats must have been a comical encounter! What was the expressions on your neighbours faces?

Bhaskar - 9-4-2012 at 03:36

Quote: Originally posted by Goorlap

Another accident I had was with some unneutralized MHN drying on the stove. (For sensitivity testing purposes, most of my MHN batch was neutralized)
Next morning I woke up, and there was a strange smell and smoke in my living room

It apparently exploded because of the extra heat of sunlight.

Whats yhe full form of MHN?

Vikascoder - 11-4-2012 at 05:24

Quote: Originally posted by Bhaskar

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

Thats must have been a comical encounter! What was the expressions on your neighbours faces?

my neighbour were looking like at me as there is yamraaj at mu home sabke yaar mu phate reh gaye. bas yaar muge ghur te rahe

simply RED - 11-4-2012 at 05:30

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dec_1334124937
He wanted to be posted on YouTube, but it became more suitable for liveleak...

[Edited on 11-4-2012 by simply RED]

Vikascoder - 11-4-2012 at 05:56

one more accident happened .when i was making hcl using h2so4+nacl my gas generator burst out and all the acid spilled everywhere. even 5to8 drops spilled on my face and it burned very badly .

weiming1998 - 11-4-2012 at 06:44

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

Quote: Originally posted by Bhaskar

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

Thats must have been a comical encounter! What was the expressions on your neighbours faces?

my neighbour were looking like at me as there is yamraaj at mu home sabke yaar mu phate reh gaye. bas yaar muge ghur te rahe

Oh god! 1kg of a chlorate composition? You intend to store that? Next time you make any compositions, just make small amounts and use at once. Storing them in large quantities, especially a chlorate composition, just isn't safe. A spark and it goes boom, possibly setting fire to your house as well.

As for me, luckily, I have never had major accidents related to chemistry. A minor one (probably not even one) was me trying to blowtorch some phosphorous/KMnO4 wrapped in aluminum foil (there were as much phosphorous as you could extract off 1 match box).
That was stupid, because the next thing it did was explode, and a spark landed on the back of my hand. The place it landed felt like it was burning for a few minutes, then it was alright again.

Accidents, well...

albqbrian - 16-4-2012 at 01:23

I guess we've all had them to some degree or another. Given that my chem "career" started when I was six; I've had a few myself

They've been varied both in degree and detail as my "career" has included: unsupervised, extensive "energetic explorations" back in the glorious 60's when a kid could get any chem he could pay for, a university chem degree, several years in the Army, and extensive high power rocketry work. So in chronological order:

1. For 5th grade (circa 1968) Show and Tell I asked to be allowed to fly a rocket (on a wire) across the auditorium. Luckily (in retrospect) that request was refused. But they did allow me to demo a good sized batch of Ammonium Dichromate. Which was a big hit. However the beaker it was in cracked and made a pretty gnarly scorch mark on the table top. It also resulted in my 1st prohibition! No more Show and Tells for me.

2. The next year, my years of amateur flash powder study caught up with me. I had made a sample (sodium peroxide, Magnesium powder, activated charcoal) that i wrapped in some Kleenex. I was in my friends basement waiting for him to mix up his potion. For whatever reason the sucker blew up without warning

Luckily i was holding in by my lap so my eyes and face escaped any damage. It did give me a large 2nd degree burn on my wrist, scorched my shorts, and caught the bottom of my t-shirt on fire. My doctor, after meeting me at the Emergency Room gave me a good ass chewing which included the most colorful language that I'd ever heard him use. It also earned me my second banning. From my friend's house.

3. At college (late 70s) I did a year of Independent Study with an Organic Chem professor. One reaction had me making a waste product that was a nasty, stinky, thiol thing. A 1st yr grad student was my supervisor. I asked him how to get rid of it. Being it was the Glorious 70's; his answer was: "pour it down the drain." Roger that! Life was sooo simple then. Pretty soon we have a 1st Yr Chem TA in the lab, asking if we just did "something"? So we followed him to the basic chem labs that were on the floor below us. And which had all been evacuated! We went in one lab and noted a nasty, stinky smell. Of which we denied any knowledge, but did tell him it was OK

I didn't dump that down the sink after that.

4. Also while pursuing my chem degree I got a great Work Study job as part of my financial aid. I worked for three years as the prep slave in a biochem lab. My prof was a world renowned protein chemist guy who studied Cytochrome C from all sorts of creatures. My job was pretty much "processing" the creatures and extracting the Cytochrome C. And I got paid for it as well as having a huge lab space to myself! It doesn't get much better for an undergrad chem nerd! Some examples of my work? For a while one of the grad students was looking at yeast Cyto C. So I got 50lb boxes of the stuff, prepped it, and passed it on. After a while I HATED the smell of yeast and had to give up bread for a bit. Another time a town hired a guy to cut down on their pigeon problem. So one afternoon he pulls up to the building with about 400 dead pigeons in the back of his truck! We only needed the heart and breast muscle. We set up a pigeon disassembly line (a few of the newer grad students had to help) and ripped those things apart. At one point several of us had to break and go to a P Chem class. We didn't change; we just trundled over in our bloody, feathered up clothes. Oh those good old days. So you get the idea. My accident came about after Thanksgiving when someone decided to study the Cyto C in tapeworms :mad:

Nasty, nasty, nasty!!! So I got seventy pounds of frozen tapeworms from a local slaughterhouse. My basic processing method was usually to through whatever I was working on into a gallon Waring blender, homogenize it, then extract the protein. If you ever saw the old SNL skit about the Bassomatic; that was pretty much it! The tapeworms had a complication. Normally I just worked with hearts, or very active muscles (more Cyto C). But the tapeworms required me to do something to kill their own proteolytic enzymes. Which basically meant that I had to dump a chemical that was a close cousin to a nerve agent into my blender. I forget exactly which I used, but it was some floro-phosphate thing. For my protection they gave me an atropine syringe

My problem was that the postdoc who made the stuff put it in a glass bottle. When I whipped up the tapeworms it created this horrible, slippery, "meringue-like foam which also had a smell that induced instant, uncontrollable retching. I'd highly recommend against blenderizing tapeworms

Anyway, somewhere among my retching, refilling, emptying, etc. the blender the glass bottle shot out of my slime covered gloved hand. And broke on the concrete floor right at my feet. Sorry Michael Jackson, but I'm pretty sure right then that I invented The Moon Walk as I got the hell out of the place. I then regrouped, kitted up (respirator, bags on my feet, atropine injector in my pocket) and went back and decontaminated the floor. Of course this was the Saturday of the lab picnic so I was the only person there. But it all turned out OK. And thank goodness I never had to process tapeworms again! But think, I got paid $3.85 an hour for all this fun!! Ahhh, the Glorious 70's!!

5. My last misadventure occurred at my last Army posting. I was the project officer who tested Field Artillery Scatterable Mines (FASCAMs in Army lingo); more commonly known as Cluster bombs in the civilian world. One shell held 36 of them. Each had the same kill mechanism as a hand grenade. The grenade and the electronics were held in a pie wedge-shaped hunk of hard plastic. The kill mechanism was surrounded by a "sheath" of liquid explosive. So however the mine landed, the explosive would be under the grenade and would pop it up about head high. The thing had seven trip wires, an anti-disturbance feature, and a self-destruct feature. A nasty little thing; that's for sure. The design guys were always thinking up failure modes and would then send us the items to test. One such test involved dropping the shells, in various orientations, from about 70 feet up; onto a steel platform. We wanted to be sure rough handling wouldn't accidentally detonate the mines. After we dropped them, remotely of course; we watched them for a day or so; then hauled them away for destruction. There was a separate Demo Branch that was responsible for such things and during this test there was just the Demo guy and I at the site. So he puts a couple of sticks of C4 on the thing. Now it certainly doesn't look like enough to me, but he's the expert and it's his C4. We light the fuse and run away. After the explosion we return and see a fair amount of the shell is still there. And as I look into the desert I see a mine. With some trip wires deployed. Then another, and another. Then a whole freaking bunch! So we didn't destroy any mines; we just chucked them across the desert. At which point we executed the run away plan. I got back to the office and checked in with our story. We then got on the horn with the design guys. The problem? As a safety feature; these mines only arm after experiencing the setback force of being shot out of a howitzer. A good idea no doubt. The concensus was the mines shouldn't be armed. Though there was some doubt as the force of the C4 blowing them was certainly substantial. Was it enough?? The experts didn't think so. But they were in Minnesota and New Jersey; not at our site. And they didn't have to go back and individually blow up each of those mines. I did. So the next day my demo pal and I went out and found every mine. Real carefully. We then set a hunk of C4 next to each mine; but it couldn't touch the mine in case the anti-disturbance feature got activated; and blew each one up. A bit of a pucker day, no doubt

For the rest of this test i made the Demo guy wrap each shell in a freaking blanket of C4. We didn't have any other problems. That was an interesting time which included a few other pucker times. And what really pissed me off? I didn't get hazardous duty pay; unlike anyone else who worked on these projects. They were all civilians so they got hazardous duty pay; as well as overtime. When I went to personnel to try and straighten this out? I was told: "Too bad, you're in artillery; only EOD officers get hazard pay." WTF? I work on a mine field, with live mines, every day. Tough. Oh well, at least I got to blow a lot of stuff up.

OK, I've rambled enough. Accidents do happen. And for the weirdest reasons. Always keep that in mind when dealing with energetics!

Goorlap - 19-4-2012 at 03:25

Quote: Originally posted by Bhaskar

Whats yhe full form of MHN?

do you mean the full name ? Mannitol hexanitrate

Pyro - 30-4-2012 at 04:37

when i was testing different nitration times and ways to nitrate cellulose i had accideltally left a little water in the acid beaker, so i unwittingly poured H2SO4 and HNO3 in and added the cellulose. it started to make lots of very thick reddish orange smoke and the cotton got dissolved and the entire mixture started boiling, so i put in a beaker of water to keep it cool, then once the volume had decreased by half it turned green and made lots of foam, after the foam has gone i had about 70 ml of green mixture with black stuff in the bottom (carbon i guess), i imagine that the small amout of water diluted the H2SO4 that decomposed the cellulose into H2O and C which made a vicious circle.

barley81 - 30-4-2012 at 05:25

Nitration runaway... Fortunately I never had one. Two years ago, I was nitrating cotton for the first time. I had little equipment: a couple of clean jars, some powdered ammonium nitrate (from prills), some drain cleaner sulfuric acid, and some baking soda. It went ok, but the nitrating mixture fumed a ton. The top of the jar was corroded. It wasn't really an accident, but I learned to respect fumes.

Bot0nist - 30-4-2012 at 06:16

Mixed acid/salt nitrating baths are nasty to prepare, but I still end up doing it over nitric acid distillation for a few simple things. I find a few measures can greatly reduce the horrible mist and fumes that result. Making sure the nitrate salt is very dry and properly sieved for lumps before addition, and to pre chill the sulfuric. I add slow additions with mag stirring and cover with foil. The beaker then goes in the fridge to re-chill before use. If done properly a nearly clear solution can be had, with minimal fuming.

Pyro - 30-4-2012 at 10:30

well, i nitrate with nitric acid, and i just mix them room temperature, it just gets warm enough to hurt if you hold it for a while, and i usually only get a few whisps of white fume, i think the water caused it, and got the sulfuric to decompose the cellulose into carbon and water, producing more to continue in a vicious circle.

barley81 - 30-4-2012 at 11:12

It is well known that runaways can occur in preparations of nitrocellulose. This is caused by improper cooling. The red fumes indicate that the cause probably was a nitration runaway, not decomposition of cellulose. If decomposition to carbon was the main cause, then the cellulose would not dissolve, but would turn black right away.

99chemicals - 30-4-2012 at 12:17

Mine (so far) envolves lithium and water. I took apart a battery and threw the entire wad of lithium in water. It went fine for a second then it lit on fire and shot burning lithium everywhere. I was wearing a face shield and was unhurt.

I took that solution of LiOH and added more lithium to it so I could have a more concentrated solution. I added smaller peices this time and I went fine. It finished and then the metal dish blew up! I think some of the lithium melted and got on the wall of the container. Then the water touched and it went BOOM

I lost my lithium solution to my patio...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dpzXddW1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAsEXtTDVDQ&feature=chan...

I managed to record both of them. I used an aluminum tripod and later realized that it was pitted pretty badly.

Pyro - 30-4-2012 at 13:09

could be, but why just this time? and the only thing left was a clear liquid

sargent1015 - 5-5-2012 at 21:03

Nothing too bad, but I was using chloroform one afternoon and was pouring it into a column. For some reason I had my head up next to the funnel I was using and caught a huge wiff of it! Knocked me quickly on my @ss. Won't be breathing that stuff in again anytime soon!

Also, I was heating a solution, without a boiling chip or stir bar and was going to crash it out with ether. The solution was too hot for the ether, that it immediately boiled all over the fume hood. UGH! Wasn't a cheap product either...

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 22-5-2012 at 09:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK0TneymrCM

Another example of an horrible accident of a flash powder (LE) explosion.

Phantom - 24-5-2012 at 13:50

Quote: Originally posted by CrEaTiVePyroScience

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK0TneymrCM

Another example of an horrible accident of a flash powder (LE) explosion.

This is what I just post when a opend this topic. By the way it was ANFO not flash powder.

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 25-5-2012 at 07:53

@Phantom Ow I am sorry , looks like for somehow reason I didn't read that.

And by the way, I really got my doubts about that being ANFO because the video itself is labeled as "firework accident" and here in Europe, there are alot of commercial firecrackers which contain produce about that kind of explosion examples are "Big boy , delova rana , cobra 6 , Achtung , BSC Italia" they contain flash powder (20-100g). The explosion itself also wasn't that hard and since ANFO is a territairy explosive , it's really useless to detonate such small amounts of ANFO because its very insensitive. IF it was ANFO it would've only been 30g at most and ANFO explosions are normally starting from 200g , which would kill you. 30g ANFO explosion really are really rare.

What makes you think he used ANFO?

[Edited on 25-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

Phantom - 25-5-2012 at 10:59

Well, when I first watched the video and I was looking at the tags of it, It contained ANFO, miedziankit, HMTD etc. People who dunno shit about explosives they just say "firework" even if it was TNT. Also flash powder releases white dense smoke cloud and here right after the explosion you can see a brownish cloud which is probably NO2 gas. It could be 50-100g from the sound and the demage. If you look carefully you can see his leg was injured as well and probably his chest and his other hand but because of the adrenaline he could only scream and run for help.

[Edited on 25-5-2012 by Phantom]

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 25-5-2012 at 12:05

After looking more closely I agree with you that hes knee is bleeding and both his hands are ripped off. The color of the smoke can also be due the casing which is ripped in a million piecies finely distributed in the air. I am guessing at 40-50g of ANFO because I think that 100g of ANFO would collapse your lungs due the shockwave if it explodes that close to your body.

And I think you are also right about it not being a firework because the fuse at the start produces way more smoke than a normal visco fuse would do which contains black powder, that fuse contains kno3/sugar (If i look at the smoke). I also dont understand why the fuse is that short? He must have been really stupid ?

Also flash powder would produce a large amount of light, which also isn't visible!

[Edited on 25-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

[Edited on 25-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

a_bab - 29-5-2012 at 04:51

As taken from a explosive incidents report (can't find it, maybe someone else will):

"The accident occurred on the 12th of December 2006 next to the railway bridge on the river Vah, opposite Budatin Castle [seen in background] in Zilina, Slovakia. The victim, Adamovi K prepared what in pre-fire pictures looks like it could be ammonium nitrate and nitromethane (ANNM) which looks like a purple slurry (presumably from the dyes sometimes added to nitro fuels), in a plastic container which looks like it could hold about 200g. Initiated by a homemade blasting cap made from a glass vial containing a homemade primary explosive (HMTD/TATP), which was inserted into the secondary explosive slurry. It's not known why detonation occurred prematurely, but cotton wool may have been used to seal the fuse inside the vile of primary explosive, which failed... The victims right hand was severely damaged and had to be amputated."

Even if it was flash the result would have been the same. The discussion as to what it was is irrelevant; he clearly had a big fuse-related issue.
A good reminder for anyone playing russian roulette.

Swede - 29-5-2012 at 05:51

I refuse to even watch videos like that, although I am an old dude and have seen similar before.

Peroxides... just say no. Sucks that they are so easy to prepare.

Adas - 29-5-2012 at 07:38

Quote: Originally posted by a_bab

As taken from a explosive incidents report (can't find it, maybe someone else will):

"The accident occurred on the 12th of December 2006 next to the railway bridge on the river Vah, opposite Budatin Castle [seen in background] in Zilina, Slovakia. The victim, Adamovi K prepared what in pre-fire pictures looks like it could be ammonium nitrate and nitromethane (ANNM) which looks like a purple slurry (presumably from the dyes sometimes added to nitro fuels), in a plastic container which looks like it could hold about 200g. Initiated by a homemade blasting cap made from a glass vial containing a homemade primary explosive (HMTD/TATP), which was inserted into the secondary explosive slurry. It's not known why detonation occurred prematurely, but cotton wool may have been used to seal the fuse inside the vile of primary explosive, which failed... The victims right hand was severely damaged and had to be amputated."

Even if it was flash the result would have been the same. The discussion as to what it was is irrelevant; he clearly had a big fuse-related issue.
A good reminder for anyone playing russian roulette.

Wow, I live in Slovakia and river Váh flows through my town. :O :O

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 29-5-2012 at 07:59

Wow 200g of ANNM would kill you if it explodes that close to your body, he should be ATLEAST deaf..

Phantom - 29-5-2012 at 12:32

"Phone"'s accident...

Phone's post before he killed himself that weekend

===========================================
phone
February 21st, 2004, 07:08 AM
i wonder if in europe there is anyone that uses mehenamine for fire tablets or other things..i found only petrol derivate tablets...

Yeah. They´re german, I don´t have the pack right here, but it´s almost pure methanamine (or how you now spell that lame word). You just solve it in aceton and you get it pure (or was it water) I haven´t really memorized it since I am an AP lamer (but I do own a pack with methanamine), HMTD is nutting for me

, but hey, first time I did AP I did 80 grams, second 120 grams, third time (yesterday, drying today) something about a kilo or more...

I GONNA BLOW MY FRICKING ARMS OFF! And yeah, I don´t treat AP with respect, but well, I got plenty of cold, snow and ice outside so my AP is usually quite resistant against pressure e.tc. Well, right now my brain feels like weird, I gonna have to put up a few lamps e.tc. (it dried overnight, switched the newsspaper it was on) and I think I gonna put up a few lamps to get the bitch dry faster. Well, my moms out of the weekend, that´s why I am sitting here with over 1 kilo AP and lots and lots and lots AN. Well, sure, I spam... but.. hey!

Well.

Well, almost forgot, I always take all my explosives and just make 1 big fucking bomb of it. 1 kilo AP and a couple of kílos AN coming up.
===========================================

A major swedish newspaper reports that a 15 year old boy was killed instantly on the night between sat. and sunday when a homemade bomd exploded .

His three friends at the site where not physically injured but severly chocked.

Police and bomd squad later evacuated the apartment building in which the boy lived, to search the apartment for explosives.

Today they said it was TATP about 800g

Here is something to laugh about...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x58deh_800g-apan-byfornikat...

How careless are these people today with explosives...

[Edited on 29-5-2012 by Phantom]

Fossil - 29-5-2012 at 16:23

It always makes me cringe seeing people using fuses. Why not just pitch the ~40 dollars to make a good electric initiator setup, and not lose a hand, or even worse, your life. The people getting hurt are (almost) always the ones using fuses.

Edit: Typo

[Edited on 2012-5-30 by Fossil]

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 30-5-2012 at 04:09

Wow @Phantom, I just can't believe it how can you syntheze that much of acetone peroxide without releasing that you got a 99% on an accidental detonation, seriously 1kg of tatp , that's just.. sick! You have to be totaly ungraduated, insane & have a sick mind to do that kind of stuff.

I have done 47 syntheses on acetone peroxide my highest yield was 1.33g and I never will go any higher, normally it's about 200mg. I only had one accidental detonation of a 176mg sample and I can tell you that it's like a gunshot exploding next to your ear. It scares the hack out of you and you hear a high beep for several minutes after the explosion. Also glass was all over the place , but I made my own "reinforced fumehood" that's really very usefull , it catches all the glass!

The video you linked is also fun to watch, seriously, 200g AP ! and mixing that quite roughly , I still don't get it why it didn't went off.

simply RED - 30-5-2012 at 04:58

AP is a weird stuff, sometimes you hit it with a hammer and it does not detonate, sometimes it detonates without any warning just as it is sitting... As PETN, NG, EGDN, RDX are available you do not need more than half a gram of primary...

Phantom - 30-5-2012 at 11:39

CreativePyroScience@ It wasn't made by me at all. Nickname : Phone who was a member of roguesci he synthesized it and blew himself up.

I know how it feels like.
Once 200-300mg HMTD went off about 40cm away from me. I couldn't here for seconds and I couldn't hear well in the next week.

[Edited on 30-5-2012 by Phantom]

Fossil - 30-5-2012 at 11:57

If you are getting accidental detonations of AP you definitely do not have the trimmer or have not neutralized it properly. It is not unpredictable if it is made correctly.

caterpillar - 30-5-2012 at 13:09

Well, one more story. It happened 20 years ago. One wise boy wanted to get some money and made hand grenades- for bandits, of course. TATP + AN, no primer- a hunter's match instead of it. it burns for long time, therefore one has few seconds to throw it away before flame reaches main charge. Something seemed wrong for him in this construction, and this boy tried to extract aforementioned match from a charge with a nail. he made some movements and suddenly became cold. "What am I doing?" came to his mind. "I'll blow up myself!" At that very moment a bird made noise outdoor- he turned head to that side and made one last movement. This bird saved him one eye. Fingers at his left hand just evaporated- no single piece of bone was found. Blood drained from many holes in his chest. Had he incorporated some steel (nails, screws or similar shit intended to kill) into that charge, this boy would have been killed undoubtedly. Nothing to say, he got just that he deserved.

hyfalcon - 30-5-2012 at 14:41

Makes my pound of primer powder set off a arms length with a lit paper towel look mild to some of the shit kids are trying now a days. I just lost an eyebrow out of the deal myself.

Fossil - 30-5-2012 at 17:40

What type of primer powder are you referring to? I cant imagine a pound of any common energetic going off at arms length to not cause any serious harm.

hyfalcon - 30-5-2012 at 18:20

Black powder, as in FFFF.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by hyfalcon]

Ral123 - 31-5-2012 at 02:56

caterpillar, can you tell us more about this acident? What was the hull of the charge, why did he continued after he "become cold"? What's that hunter's match? (it would be ridiculous if it's a match with just extended mixture) What could've went wrong with the nail, there're not supposed to be metal parts so how did it ignite? There are some myths of AP going of by itself but there's never complete iformation.

Fossil - 31-5-2012 at 03:14

That is because AP does not go off by itself if it was made correctly. It really is not as bad as people make it out to be. As long as good safety procedures are followed, you will not get hurt. You need to prepare it the right way, keep the temp under 5C during addition, let the reaction proceed in a freeze or in a sub-zero environment, and proper neutralization of the product.

Ral123 - 31-5-2012 at 03:58

I never rely that it wont go of by itself. I always handle like a psycho devil with a blowtorch and a bucket of Al powder is right behind me. And who knows if it wont be me who will set it off

Adas - 31-5-2012 at 07:52

Quote: Originally posted by Fossil

That is because AP does not go off by itself if it was made correctly. It really is not as bad as people make it out to be. As long as good safety procedures are followed, you will not get hurt. You need to prepare it the right way, keep the temp under 5C during addition, let the reaction proceed in a freeze or in a sub-zero environment, and proper neutralization of the product.

True, but the temp does not have to be that low, but when you let the temp. rise too high, it will decompose after some of it was formed (due to the acid). TATP oxidizes HCl to chlorine gas, btw. That's why TATP has chlorine-like odor when neutralized unproperly.

Formation of the Diperoxide is very unfavored, fortunately.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by Adas]

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 31-5-2012 at 08:50

@Fossil I dissagree with you. I neutralized that sample with 100ml of distilled sodium bicarbonate and 50ml of fresh water. When I tried to pick up the 176mg of TATP with a wooden spoon it detonated , and I wasn't putting any pressure at all, I very carefully used a paper to put it on the spoon but it just wen't off. Acetone peroxide should never be considered safe and you should keep in mind that TATP can go off at any moment and you shouldn't make any larger quantities than 1g because of that, making more is suicidal (Yes I once made 1.33g.. --"). There are hundred of stories from people who synthesized 2g+ amounts of TATP that went off accidental and there are lots of people who lost their fingers, hands , hearing and life due to being not careful and making too much of TATP.
TATP should be treated with respect and it's actually too easy to synthesize, bad nature

@Phantom I know it wasn't meant perosnal at you, but at Phone although it might look like that

@Adas I use sulfuric acid as a catalyst never tried HCl.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

Fossil - 31-5-2012 at 13:59

Quote: Originally posted by CrEaTiVePyroScience

@Fossil I dissagree with you. I neutralized that sample with 100ml of distilled sodium bicarbonate and 50ml of fresh water. When I tried to pick up the 176mg of TATP with a wooden spoon it detonated , and I wasn't putting any pressure at all, I very carefully used a paper to put it on the spoon but it just wen't off. Acetone peroxide should never be considered safe and you should keep in mind that TATP can go off at any moment and you shouldn't make any larger quantities than 1g because of that, making more is suicidal (Yes I once made 1.33g.. --"). There are hundred of stories from people who synthesized 2g+ amounts of TATP that went off accidental and there are lots of people who lost their fingers, hands , hearing and life due to being not careful and making too much of TATP.
TATP should be treated with respect and it's actually too easy to synthesize, bad nature

@Phantom I know it wasn't meant perosnal at you, but at Phone although it might look like that

@Adas I use sulfuric acid as a catalyst never tried HCl.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

If you are not able to synthesize AP properly, you obviously should not be making any energetics, period. Also, your 1.33 gram synthesis is nothing to brag about and is far from suicidal.

Quote: Originally posted by Adas

I prefer the low temp as it gives me added security and assures the formation of the trimmer. That is, it assures the formation of the trimmer when it is coupled with a sub zero environment while the reaction is taking place. I also let the reaction take place for 48hrs and never less. I know that is excessive, however it gives me peace of mind that everything has reacted properly.

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123

I never rely that it wont go of by itself. I always handle like a psycho devil with a blowtorch and a bucket of Al powder is right behind me. And who knows if it wont be me who will set it off

Same here, I wear my rag-tag BOD suit whenever I handle TATP. Thick welding gloves, ear plugs, full faceshield mounted on a hard hat, hockey elbow pads and my hockey shoulder pads. I never compromise on wearing this when I am handling TATP, whether it be filtering or packing it into cartridges. If something goes wrong, I hope it will help me.

caterpillar - 31-5-2012 at 21:28

I do not know that boy directly, but one of my friends (same person who made 1.5 l of NG at once) does. Hunter's match is a match with long and big head- it burns violently for relatively long time and is used in wilderness to ignite firewood. I do not think (and I agree with Fossil) that TATP is an extremly dangerous compound. There are some more sensitive ones. But if one will break a single crystal of TATP with something hard like steel nail (not that one, that is growing at your finger) explosion MAY occur. Just as it happened. I cannot tell you, why this boy continued. He wanted extract match from charge. Why I ignited fuse after it had become too short?

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 1-6-2012 at 06:40

@Fossil , pathetic that you are judging me on how I make acetone peroxide if you are just typing this from your computer without knowing anything about how I work. You obviously don't know where you are talking about.
And after 48h not everything has reacted yet.. Seriously I have done multiple measurements and had always more yields after 72h+ than 48hours. You just filter it off it doesn't matter...

You know what? Ill make a video on how I make acetone peroxide and then it's your turn to correct but I bet you will find any corrections. How about that?

Acetone peroxide is never safe dude.

[Edited on 1-6-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

Ral123 - 1-6-2012 at 07:29

I cool the acetone and the peroxide to -5C seperately, mix and let them cool again. After they are at less then -5C I begin adding HCl. I use kinda lot of HCl and get small crystals within less then a hour. For less then few hours it looks like this
http://www.google.bg/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D2&q=yogu...
and instead of waiting more I filter and wash with distilled water, then with methanol. Dry in warm dark, ventilated place. It only acidently detonated when I left it on the sun, but it doesn't pop when I walk over it (hmdt does)
I'm close to the optimum right?

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 1-6-2012 at 08:00

@Ral123

That's a .. yoghurt link?

Is it accidental or do you mean it looks quite cloudy, which is very normal.
And it indeed detonates/deflagrates at very low temperatures, the sun will set it off on a warm day.
It depends if you walk over it bearfoot, with socks it won't detonate because your skin/socks are quite soft and will make space for TATP but if you would wear strong combat boots for example it will detonate.
I don't think the -5°C is neccesary I always keep it around 3-6°C and works fine, but you can never be safe enough , indeed! What are the quantities that you make?

Ral123 - 1-6-2012 at 08:40

Once my standart was like 70-100g. Now 10-15g. When I was even younger kid/14 years old/ I mixed in a 400ml jar. Filtration? What filtration? Neutra....what? Just shake up the yoghurt from the jar to a 2l box from ice cream and let dry for few days(the procedure was kinda wierd with H2SO4

). Then proudly carry 10g samlpe in medicine box with me in school. Show others in the school lab how it burns-grab little amounts and place over the burner till it begun hissing when I try to grab more

Btw My first synth was with totally sick proportions witch gave something like tear gas and was supprisingly effective at ruining furniture. I don't know what was I doing with so much ap but I never did any significant explosive device. For the next years I was more into spudgunning and rc models and was fine just with the illussion that I can make some explosive if I need.

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 1-6-2012 at 08:48

No offence but it looks here are alot of peoples on this forum making TATP just for "making an explosive" without knowing anything about the chemistry and danger behind it. That's very dangerous because one accident can change your life.

Imagine if the 100g that you made exploded right next to you, then you won't be here today..

"Carrying 10-15g of TATP to school.. , really you never had an accident??

I know I might sound overprotective but I speak from experience, just 200mg of TATP is like a gunshot and gives eardamage.. I don't want to imagine what happends when 15g explodes in that medicine box while you are carrying it.

Ral123 - 1-6-2012 at 09:27

I had very limited access to internet and all I knew about explosives was from a gay-ass website written by a man who has never seen any explosive with a rubbish ap synth and two other bombs, here are the designs so we can laugh together-
fertiliser bomb-"place 500g fertiliser in a paper box, soak it with diesel, light the paper and run, the fire ball is over 6m"
jenirik bomb-"take a glass bottle and put few crystals of kalium permanganate. Put few mililiters of gasoline and wait till it evaporates. Close the bottle and throw it. Keep in mind it has the power of 1/2 stick of dynamite"
Interestingly back then ap was a valuable thing. It was very dissapointing when I had some and was supposed to get rid of it, withouth blowing it up

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 1-6-2012 at 09:49

I see but you never ever had any accident of TATP or came close to it?

Ral123 - 1-6-2012 at 10:06

Only that my first synth was a runaway, and that some blew in the sun. The only acidental detonations were from little amounts of hmtd on the ceramic floor. I was handling egdn and that made me horibly nerveous :mad:

I know a guy who blew himself with a pan of AP. A pan of AP and a short visko

And another guy-a bucket of 400g ap and a sparkler

They are bouth well now.

Adas - 1-6-2012 at 10:25

The tear gas must have been chloroacetone, because TATP can oxidize HCl to Cl2 which then reacts with acetone... Anyways, not washing the TATP that has been made using H2SO4 could have been fatal - as water evaporates, the H2SO4 concentrates and its dehydrating property may set the thing off.

Fossil - 1-6-2012 at 11:53

Quote: Originally posted by CrEaTiVePyroScience

@Fossil , pathetic that you are judging me on how I make acetone peroxide if you are just typing this from your computer without knowing anything about how I work. You obviously don't know where you are talking about.
And after 48h not everything has reacted yet.. Seriously I have done multiple measurements and had always more yields after 72h+ than 48hours. You just filter it off it doesn't matter...

You know what? Ill make a video on how I make acetone peroxide and then it's your turn to correct but I bet you will find any corrections. How about that?

Acetone peroxide is never safe dude.

[Edited on 1-6-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

You're right, I do not know how you work, but I can make the assumption based on your results. The 48hr reaction time is what I have found to be the most effective in terms of safety and time. By the way, I believe I do know what I am talking about since I have undoubtedly synthesized much more TATP than you and have not had a single accident. I have run many tests on the sensitivity of what I make. They have all shown that my method of manufacture produces a relatively stable energetic, although I have not done any tests with quantities larger than 0.3 grams. To give you perspective, it will not go off when struck with a hammer when the surface it is resting on is wood (2x4). It will however reliably go off when it is resting on metal and struck with a hammer. Friction sensitivity is the same.

Make a video if you want, although I do not recommend it as it can be used against you (by the cops.)

[Edited on 2012-6-1 by Fossil]

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 1-6-2012 at 13:12

@Fossil So how much TATP do you make each batch?

Fossil - 1-6-2012 at 15:17

Average 8.42g, although I have recently moved away from that. Now I make it in 2.23g batches. It is not because I have had an accident, but because I no longer feel comfortable handling such large quantities. I feel the risk is unnecessary and when more is needed, I just make multiple small batches. My largest batch was one 15.74g made alongside five ~10g batches. It was a stupid thing to do in hindsight.

Ral123 - 2-6-2012 at 03:26

So far my 15g sample in the freezer is still nice fine powder(three weeks). You wouldn't belive it's ap. What's with these small quantities? I know that 15g of very well compresed rdx does almost nothing to old shoes from 25cm. What can these 15g of low density crystals that would sh*t themselfs if I look too serious at them (the ones not in the fridge kinda did

) do to my tough polypropylene googles from 40cm? There even people that had AP explode in direct contact with unprotected hand and havent lost any or very little parts of the fingers in long term.

Vikascoder - 2-6-2012 at 06:13

Till now i have synthesized acetone peroxide lots of times carefully maintaining temperature each batch weight almost 4 grams luckily i did not had any accident . But i dont know the problem with my HMTD i synthesized it many times even at 35'c and it doesnt detonates from spark it deflagrates very quickly it can only be detonated with hammer . Could any one tell me how to detonate it with spark in open without confining it..

Ral123 - 2-6-2012 at 07:08

I think AP is easyer to ddt. HMTD only with good confinement.

Vikascoder - 2-6-2012 at 08:09

i read somewhere that aluminium and sulphur thermite can initate it in open just place half a gram of HMTD on any surfaceand then place 2 grams of aluminium and sulphur thermite and ignite it then hear a big bang then the detonation is really powerful .

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 2-6-2012 at 08:29

@Ral123 You"ll be amazed what 15g can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdei-g3FFBQ

That is four grams of TATP if you are handling three times that much then I don't even want to think what happends when it would go off right next to you..
The shrapnel will penetrate your glasses easy, piece of cake.

Fossil - 2-6-2012 at 08:34

RAL123, you think 15 grams of TATP is not very powerful?
This is a charge of 15 grams packed in a toilet paper roll. It is buried roughly 50 cm deep in a hole 7 cm in diameter.

A rock was subsequently placed on top of the charge.

The resulting crater was big enough to say, fit your head in, for lack of a better reference.

The the cavity is bigger than what the opening lets on. Also, this is what happened to the rock.

And you thought 15 grams of TATP was not something to be concerned about. I should also clarify that this is by far the largest TATP charge I have made. Additionally, I have no plans to ever repeat this experiment as TATP should not be handled in such large quantities in the case something were to go wrong.

[Edited on 2012-6-2 by Fossil]

Ral123 - 2-6-2012 at 09:34

Don't make me post a super boring picture of an avrage man with almost nothing with his face. He blew himself with 400g AP. He went like a kilometer abosolutely by himself and didn't spent so much at hospital. 4g riped off an arm?? I did a test of 4g on a 3mm aluminium surface of an loud speaker. It bearly left a dent. A fragment from the thin wall of a pet bottle will never penetrate 2.5mm polypropylene googles. It may cause third cosmetic modification to my face trough

It wont be much compared to the metal shrapnel I've eaten. I'd say that the bottom of the bottle can make a lethal tough high velocity shrapnel.

Fossil - 2-6-2012 at 09:57

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123

Don't make me post a super boring picture of an avrage man with almost nothing with his face. He blew himself with 400g AP. He went like a kilometer abosolutely by himself and didn't spent so much at hospital. 4g riped off an arm?? I did a test of 4g on a 3mm aluminium surface of an loud speaker. It bearly left a dent. A fragment from the thin wall of a pet bottle will never penetrate 2.5mm polypropylene googles. It may cause third cosmetic modification to my face trough

It wont be much compared to the metal shrapnel I've eaten. I'd say that the bottom of the bottle can make a lethal tough high velocity shrapnel.

Tthat made absolutely no sense.

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 2-6-2012 at 09:59

@Ral123 15g can cause major damage. Even if 4g of that detonates when your are carrying a vial with acetone peroxide (with a closed hand) you will defently lose your hand or atleast three fingers.

@Fossil I totally agree with that.

[Edited on 2-6-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 2-6-2012 at 10:03

@Ral123 I've made a video about TATP (in February)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQLOobppsw

Skip to 1:20 and see what happends when a 200mg sample (accidently) detonates. Rare footage of a 200mg TATP sample that detonates in the open (due a match was pushed in it)
The TATP wasn't confined and still it blew a two inch hole in an hard plastic object.

Ral123 - 3-6-2012 at 04:05

Nice chanel, I subscribed

Abot the AP-in a shrapnel free case I wouldn't be afraid(of death

) of anything less then 20ml egdn at distances more then 40cm.

Fossil - 3-6-2012 at 05:36

With that attitude, I'm willing to bet you are going to abruptly stop posting on this forum.

Goorlap - 3-6-2012 at 11:49

@fossil, you detonated your 15 grams electrically ? Static can be transferred through the wires and prematuraly det your AP.

Fossil - 3-6-2012 at 12:02

I don't see how that could happen. The detonator is always the last thing to be hooked up, the wires are grounded and I do not use a spark ignition. I short out little Christmas lights with 18v, which in turn initiates a primary, in this case, TATP. If I'm missing something here, on the safety of my setup, feel free to share.

I would like to remark that this is much safer than lighting a fuse and running. I know exactly when my charge will go off, that is, when I flip the toggle switch and hit the two momentarys at the same.

caterpillar - 4-6-2012 at 01:29

Quote: Originally posted by Fossil

I don't see how that could happen. The detonator is always the last thing to be hooked up, the wires are grounded and I do not use a spark ignition. I short out little Christmas lights with 18v, which in turn initiates a primary, in this case, TATP. If I'm missing something here, on the safety of my setup, feel free to share.

I would like to remark that this is much safer than lighting a fuse and running. I know exactly when my charge will go off, that is, when I flip the toggle switch and hit the two momentarys at the same.

Nothing to say, you are absolutely right. Only indolence prevents from making some simple electrical ignition systems. They are much safer. Assume something is wrong and explosion doesn't occur. Pull the wire and get detonator out of charge. But if you have ignited a fuse and explosion doesn't happen, what the next movement will be? Get closer and look at what is there? It is direct way to start to learn to play harp.

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 4-6-2012 at 07:44

@Fossil Heyy! I do the same , I also use christmas lights do you also do it the same way that I do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_xsake03f4 (made by me)

Or do you do it different?
(I don't need comments from people saying that putting TATP in that detonater is stupid because I've done lots of test and it doesn't react with the metal inside).

[Edited on 4-6-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]

Fossil - 4-6-2012 at 12:51

Yeah I do nearly the same thing.

FrankRizzo - 8-6-2012 at 15:31

If you've ever had to cut glass tubing, a similar technique can be used to get a nice cut on the glass envelope of a holiday light. You simply use a small triangle file to score the bulb, then apply pressure to either side to "snap" it along the score line. It takes a bit of practice, but you can get a very nice clean break and retain a good portion of the volume of the bulb.

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