Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Nicotine Extration. (At Home)

Nicotine Extration. (At Home)

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 00:50

hey guys,
i am trying to find a easy method to extract nicotine from tobacco at home.
guys, before we start, i would like to tell you that this is not my first time and i have already did it with many other methods including the apple osmosis one which i found the cleanest and easiest.
so i know how dangerous is it, and if i want to commit suicide, i will just put couple of drops of disolved nicotine in alcohol on my skin.
so okay, my aim:- find the most easiest and cleanest method of extraction of nicotine from tobacco at home.
which also means that i am not going to use any fancy chemicals or apparatus for this process.

and this is active discussion for development. rnd. so any feedback will be appreciated.

okay so this process i have in mind, and i am going to start it tomorrow after few feedbacks from you guys.

1) buy 100 g of tobacco, moderately expensive. not the cheap one which has all the crap nor the expensive one with the addictives in it. (suggestions on type of tobacco are welcomed. please mention name and cost)
2) take around 1 litre of tap water. now we all know if the water is acidic, extraction is better. now, i have done with hcl, so lets try something different. more homely. wat you guys think about lemon juice. (citric acid) couple of lemons in 1 litre water? or what you say about vodka?
3) stir the mixture. boil it for 5 mins. then keep it like that for 24 hours. then again boil it for 10 mins.(stir ever hour). then collect the water. then put the soaked tobacco on a piece of cloth and squeeze the remaining water out of tobacco. (now here guys, i think if i grind the tobacco first then it will be better for extraction, but more impurities will be there in water other then nicotine. what you all say?
4) then throw all the crap away and simmer the water till all the liquid is evaporated.
5) now the tricky part. purification. i have tried the coffee filter method with the help of vaccumm. but which method you guys think i should use here? i need something easy and efficient.

so guys, this is all i got in my brain so far. what you people say? all suggestions are welcomed.
(PS:- i am typing all this for second time. first time i typed everything properly but due to some crappy server error i had to retype it again and i am in kinda hurry. so i typed it this way. hope you understand.)
thanks

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 01:38

guys? no one intrested?

blogfast25 - 4-2-2012 at 06:35

You would be better parking this in 'organics'.

simba - 4-2-2012 at 07:24

I think extracting nicotine from nicotine patches would be easier and cheaper, but I can't tell for sure.

[Edited on 4-2-2012 by shivas]

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 07:31

no its not. 10 patches contain 20mg nicotine which is for like 60$ or something.

Ephoton - 4-2-2012 at 07:56

I call bullshit.

I am on nicotine patches to give up smoking and ive just steped down to step two.

step two patches have contain 35mg each they deliver over the day 14mg
step one patches deliver 21mg a day (I dont have any on me so I am not exactly sure of the actual content)
this should put them around 52mg each.
there are 7 patches too a pack so they last the week.

cigarettes contrain around 1mg each
http://www.erowid.org/plants/tobacco/tobacco_nic.shtml

patches here cost around $20 per pack cigarettes here cost around $15 per 25.

[Edited on 4-2-2012 by Ephoton]

barley81 - 4-2-2012 at 08:56

I'm going to grow tobacco for a grafting experiment (tomacco from the Simpsons). Maybe I'll try this.

smaerd - 4-2-2012 at 09:21

a whole smoked cigarette contains ~1mg of nicotine. They actually have about 10 times that, but pyrolysis is obviously an inefficient route of administration. So say each cigarette contains a gram of tobacco. 10mg per gram, 100 grams equates to what a gram or so of nicotine?

You extraction method isn't much of an extraction at all. It would leave you with a pile of goop. Usually this is why chemists employ solvents... Do you really want to 'squeeze' concentrated nicotine juice? Even if your wearing gloves and goggles? Why vodka? What would vodka help with that wet chemistry couldn't?

Why do you want to do this anyways? Risking your life over something you don't seem to really even understand.

Due to the nature of this stuff I can't recommend doing this. Btw, "LD50 on nicotine is 0.5-10 mg/kg"

[Edited on 4-2-2012 by smaerd]

ThatchemistKid - 4-2-2012 at 09:41

Well, you lucked out the PKa of one of the nitrogens on nicotine is 8.1 and the Pka of citric acid for the first deprotonation is 3.1 so that will work, though how do you plan to uhh remove all the other components of the tobacco such as germacrene and anabasine and piperidine, those will extract as well (though germacrene more so if you use the vodka), on top of the other components from the lemon juice, other trace amounts of elements that you may find in the plant such as mercury or polonium. Like previously mentioned you will more than likely get goop this way, tobacco contains about 3% nicotine maximum that leaves 97% of other things to screw with this? What is your goal exactly?

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 09:45

about nicotine patch, got to give it a second thought. but i want to find a method for this.

You extraction method isn't much of an extraction at all. It would leave you with a pile of goop. Usually this is why chemists employ solvents... - can you please suggest a alternative way then? easy one.

Do you really want to 'squeeze' concentrated nicotine juice? Even if your wearing gloves and goggles? - just a thought. wouldnt it be better for extraction?

Why vodka? What would vodka help with that wet chemistry couldn't? - nicotine disolves better in alcohol. so i was just thinking it might increase chance.

Why do you want to do this anyways? Risking your life over something you don't seem to really even understand. - well you dont learn unless to try it right?i will be carefull. dont worry.

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 09:52

@thatchemistkid
"Well, you lucked out the PKa of one of the nitrogens on nicotine is 8.1 and the Pka of citric acid for the first deprotonation is 3.1 so that will work," - but is there any better solution?
"though how do you plan to uhh remove all the other components of the tobacco such as germacrene and anabasine and piperidine, those will extract as well (though germacrene more so if you use the vodka)," - yes this is my biggest problem. i am searching for easy way of purification and i really cant find any. can you please suggest?
"on top of the other components from the lemon juice," - damn, it almost slipped my mind.

Like previously mentioned you will more than likely get goop this way, tobacco contains about 3% nicotine maximum that leaves 97% of other things to screw with this? What is your goal exactly? - my goad is to find a efficient way of nicotine extraction using normal things. now becoz of all this things, i need your help. hope you will guide me

smaerd - 4-2-2012 at 11:52

Caffeine is a much safer extraction to learn on. if you spill the product on yourself or someone else mistakes it for something else, etc, it could very well be their end. I'd highly suggest learning the BASIC principles of extractions.

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 12:44

dude, please read properly..
this is not the first time i am doing this.

only thing is, i just need a simpler method.

as i mentioned, apple osmosis was very clean method. but it wasnt efficient.

Ephoton - 4-2-2012 at 12:46

even if that is the case smaerd 100g of tobacco here costs near $70

3 packs of 52mg patches cost $60 and thats 1.09g of nicotine.
still cheaper to go via patch.

what do you want nicotine for anyway ?
It is hell to get off I am doing everything I can to stop using it.

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 13:11

dude, relax on that. i already got 250 gm of tobacco. so i am not planing to get nicotine patch.

second, just for fun. yes i know how dangerous it is. and as i mentioned, if i want to commit suicide, i will dissolve it in alcohol and put couple of drops on my hand. or better, i wont wear any gloves.

i just want to figure out a method to do it in simple way.
reason, nicotine is considered to be one of the dangerous toxins on earth and couple of drops will seriously do you for good.
no matter if you inject it, inhale it or your skin absorbs it.
so i just want to find a easy, efficient and moderately safe method of doing it.

so as i mentioned before, i am thinking of weird stuff like lime juice and etc etc.

now, seriously speaking. the think which is really getting on my nerve is method of purification. i cant find any easy and efficient method.

there are some crazy stuff on internet like coffee filter and vaccum, which i had tried before. but they are not that efficient.

sciencefreak666 - 4-2-2012 at 13:13

and btw, 100g is 3+ gms of nicotine.

you do the maths

vulture - 4-2-2012 at 13:19

Few Pointers to make your presence longer lasting on this forum:

1) Use the edit function instead of doubleposting.
2) Don't start the same thread in different sections
3) Take care of your language

ThatchemistKid - 4-2-2012 at 16:03

you know I already explained to you via U2U how to purify this, using methods that are doable at home? purifying stuff from natural plant sources is not trivial the links you sent showed lack of understanding of what was really in the extraction mixture.

sciencefreak666 - 5-2-2012 at 04:56

yes, and it will very very helpfull. you have covered most of things and frankly it is one of the easiest method to do it.
and the best i found so far.

but i am kind of looking for something more easy, that can be done at home. with less apparatus.
i know, my goal is impossible, i wont end up with pure nicotine without it. but i am hoping to end up with something close to pure nicotine.
frankly speaking, nicotine patch thing makes it more easy. but i am looking for this from tobaco.
frankly speaking, i realise. that from 250g of tobacco, at the max i can get 5 gm of nicotine at home. using thatchemistkid method i am sure i can get more then 15gm which is almost 3 times more. but i need simple and i am ready to settle for 5 gms.
and it will have impurities, but my goal is to have one with minimum impurities.

please ignore my false language.

bfesser - 5-2-2012 at 07:46

Find a first edition copy of <a href="http://amzn.com/0721671217">Introduction to Organic Laboratory Techniques</a> by Pavia, Lampman, & Kriz. "Experiment 5: Nicotine from Tobbacco." The third edition does not contain this experiment--possibly removed due to toxicity concerns. Sorry, I do not own the second edition.

Skimming through, you'll need sodium hydroxide, ether, methanol, and basic labware. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't even think about dealing with nicotine.

[end spoon-feed]

[Edited on 2/5/12 by bfesser]

water vs di-ethyl ether.

sciencefreak666 - 6-2-2012 at 05:49

hey guys,
consider 5 gm nicotine dissolved in 100 ml water.
and when i add 50 ml of di-ethyl ether to it, will the nicotine which is already dissolved in water get dissolved in ether?

if it will then whats the reason behind it?

Bot0nist - 6-2-2012 at 06:44

Nicotine Hcl?, Nicotine sulfate? free base? What temperature, with shaking,etc? Please be more specific with your parameters. It sounds like your asking about an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_base_extraction">"acid base" extraction</a>.

Organikum - 6-2-2012 at 07:54

There are already several threads on this topic, you might search a bit. Nicotine extraction is gruesome as this is soluble in almost anything.

I remember that I liked best the apple trick. putting an apple into a tobacco-water mix and after some days extract the apple, the skin was serving as a decent membrane. I tried this, it works, almost no goo.

Good luck.
/ORG

sciencefreak666 - 6-2-2012 at 08:45

well,
free base. (extracted from tobacco)
room temperature and with shaking.

simba - 6-2-2012 at 09:34

Quote: Originally posted by Organikum

There are already several threads on this topic, you might search a bit. Nicotine extraction is gruesome as this is soluble in almost anything.

I remember that I liked best the apple trick. putting an apple into a tobacco-water mix and after some days extract the apple, the skin was serving as a decent membrane. I tried this, it works, almost no goo.

Good luck.
/ORG

This reminds me of Man, Woman, Wild show on discovery, when they used dried plums to filter the salt out of sea water so they could drink it.

sciencefreak666 - 6-2-2012 at 10:45

sometimes internet can be funny.

i was just fooling around and found this method to prepare cyanide
HCOOH + NH3 → HCOONH4
HCOONH4 →(heat) HCONH2 + H2O

then

HCONH2 + KOH → KCN + 2H2O (heat till water evaporates)

now, there is no way in world that preparation of potassium cyanide can be this easy. there got to be some complifications right?

UnintentionalChaos - 6-2-2012 at 10:57

Quote: Originally posted by sciencefreak666

sometimes internet can be funny.

i was just fooling around and found this method to prepare cyanide
HCOOH + NH3 → HCOONH4
HCOONH4 →(heat) HCONH2 + H2O

then

HCONH2 + KOH → KCN + 2H2O (heat till water evaporates)

now, there is no way in world that preparation of potassium cyanide can be this easy. there got to be some complifications right?

HCONH2 + OH- => NH3 + HCOO-
Also, I think you're in the wrong thread.

sciencefreak666 - 6-2-2012 at 11:01

about that cyanide stuff, wikipedia says so. frankly i have no idea.

about thread, yup, i know, actually the base nicotine there is my only. i just came across this so i posted here.

zoombafu - 6-2-2012 at 12:56

Go look up solubility properties of nicotine, and this should probably be moved to organic chemistry

sciencefreak666 - 7-2-2012 at 03:06

request to mods - please move to organic chemistry.

did some study on solubility. and yes, nicotine will be extracted from tobacco water to ether.

now there is one question in my mind.

with nicotine what else will get disolved into ether?

bfesser - 7-2-2012 at 13:56

What won't!? Seriously, do some research of your own. Try a real library, not just half-assed Google searches. And, as stated by Organikum, there are already other threads on this topic--I suggest you read them. Hint: click "Search" up near the top left corner of the page and enter the term "nicotine".

zoombafu - 7-2-2012 at 14:18

Quote: Originally posted by sciencefreak666

request to mods - please move to organic chemistry.

did some study on solubility. and yes, nicotine will be extracted from tobacco water to ether.

now there is one question in my mind.

with nicotine what else will get disolved into ether?

It depends on what else you are dissolving. If you are extracting from dried tobacco you will need to take in to account all of the other chemicals that are present, and do research on solubility of those chemicals. If you are doing patches you need to see if there are any binding agents or additional chemicals present in the patches that would be dissolved.

sciencefreak666 - 8-2-2012 at 04:17

"It depends on what else you are dissolving. If you are extracting from dried tobacco you will need to take in to account all of the other chemicals that are present, and do research on solubility of those chemicals. If you are doing patches you need to see if there are any binding agents or additional chemicals present in the patches that would be dissolved. "

i am doing from dried tobacco. and yes, there will be lot many chemicals in it.

i tried to google, but i am not able to find any post with exact tobacco contains.
i have already searched this forum, no related posts for what i am upto http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/search.php?token=&srchtxt=nicotine&srchfield=body&srchuname=&f[]=2&srchfrom=0&filter_distin ct=yes&searchsubmit=Search

anyways, i read couple of posts on yahoo search and found some interesting ideas.

so far i found that tobacco has nicotine, amines and some heavy metal. - thats the best google and yahoo could offer.

i consulted one of by friend/mentor told me that there are some resins and poly phenols.

so if anyone knows the contents of tobacco, please please share.

Ephoton - 8-2-2012 at 05:42

I would probably extract with alcohol looking at nicotines structure.

then evap alcohol and take up in dilute acid.

then wash acid with none polar a few times to defat it and rebase the nicotine with sodium hydroxide.

collect nicotine from solution with none polar of choice.
dry none polar with nicotine in it and then gas with hydrogen chloride to make
crystaline hydrochloride nicotine / anabasine / piperidide mixture.

to purify any further I think your looking at chromatography.

I strongly doubt you will be able to do this or you would already know it.

I have the same thoughts as I did at the start of the thread though now they are confirmed by
the fact your looking into making cyanide with no chemical reason to have it.

(your not making amine with the cyanide or you would know how to extract them)

most alkaloid plant extracts are the same as far as procedure.
there acid base properties are normaly used for purification.

sciencefreak666 - 8-2-2012 at 06:01

no no, i am not making cyanide..
lol, seriously. i just posted that reaction coz i found it so simple to look at. and thanks.

Ephoton - 8-2-2012 at 11:57

well if your not hurting anyone good luck

make sure you wear gloves for this and dont boil the freebase in water down.

be aware that some alcohols have water in them.

I am not sure if nicotine will steam distill or not though it should not azeotrope with alcohol.

I have no data to back that up though so boiling down the alcohol from the freebase extract is were
I would be very very carefull ( I would not do it in a confined space and even better in a distillation
setup)

how to extract ephedrine or any other alkaloid should be a good starting point as lots of people
have done that.

It should be possible to make a chromatography column with a clear tube but with out some kind
of analysis to inspect fractions that are collected your realy in the dark and waisting your time
trying to seperate the amines from the tobacco.

there is information here on how to make an IR spectrometer but you will have to make a cuvet and light
source to go with it.

I dont think nicotine brakes down with heat (or we could not smoke it) so it should be an easy extract.

I dont think that cyanide reaction is worth looking at as I have never been able to make it from
formamide but then I never tried that hard.

Cyanides are not nice to work with and I strongly sugest you stay away from them till you have
a lot more chemistry experiance.

sciencefreak666 - 8-2-2012 at 12:39

"make sure you wear gloves for this and dont boil the freebase in water down." - yes, my friend told me that nicotine will steamdistill. so i wont do it at all

"be aware that some alcohols have water in them." - i am using diethyl ether.

"I am not sure if nicotine will steam distill or not though it should not azeotrope with alcohol. " - at low temp, i dont think it will.

"I have no data to back that up though so boiling down the alcohol from the freebase extract is were
I would be very very carefull ( I would not do it in a confined space and even better in a distillation
setup)" - true, i am gonna do this part outdoor.

"Cyanides are not nice to work with and I strongly sugest you stay away from them till you have
a lot more chemistry experiance. " - well cyanide = suicide

. and thats not on my mind. not atleast now.

i do have one querry though which i am really really not able to find any answer. half life period of nicotine as freebase is 2 hours.
now when i will extract nicotine into ether, as far as my knowlegde, it will be free base coz i am not adding any acid to collect crystallised nicotine. so from which point should i start considering the half life period?

coz i am sure its not from water extraction through tobacco, coz black leaf 40 = that water. and it has nicotine.

sciencefreak666 - 11-2-2012 at 09:35

guys, i got a pretty serious problem here.
1) i soaked tobacco in water for 5 days.
2) i filtered water from tobacco goo with the help of cloth, throughed the goo away.
3) washed the water from tobacco with Di-etheyl ether.

now i know that there is supposed to be only 2 layers, 1) ether at top which is there. 2) water at bottom which is also ther.

now my problem is there is a third later. between water and ether. i think that layer is ether only. but it is dark in color.

dark brown layer of water at bottom, light brown layer in middle and faint brown layer of ether at top.

now i know nicotine is completely soluble in ether.

so what should i do of second layer, collect it with ether or throw away with water?

please reply asap

[Edited on 11-2-2012 by sciencefreak666]

slyder - 11-2-2012 at 12:38

very good detailed Nicotine extraction is described in this book/website :

http://www.lambdasyn.org/synfiles/nikotin.htm

you need just google translator to translate it from german to english language.

Nicodem - 11-2-2012 at 12:39

Quote: Originally posted by sciencefreak666

so what should i do of second layer, collect it with ether or throw away with water?

Throw away the water? So, you did not even bother checking the logP of nicotine and you don't have a clue about the basic properties of amines or isolation techniques in general. Additionally, instead of using one of the numerous verified and published procedures, you desperately want to reinvent the wheel, even though you know not what you are doing and don't bother checking the literature. Meanwhile, despite your total incompetence, you plan to extract a deadly poison instead of first learning the required skills and gather some basic knowledge. And what is worse, you are soliciting others into assisting you in your self-destructive behavior.

Quote: Originally posted by sciencefreak666

i tried to google, but i am not able to find any post with exact tobacco contains.
i have already searched this forum, no related posts for what i am upto http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/search.php?token=&srchtxt=nicotine&srchfield=body&srchuname=&f[]=2&srchfrom=0&filter_distin ct=yes&searchsubmit=Search

How about investing some more effort?
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3404

bfesser - 12-2-2012 at 06:46

sciencefreak666, please put some effort into your spelling, capitalization, and use of symbols. In chemistry, a single incorrect character can mean an entirely different thing from what you intend. It's important.

"Di-etheyl ether" should be written as diethyl ether.

Hints:
- Don't arbitrarily capitalize the first letter of compound or element names.
- Dashes are not used after prefixes such as mono, di, tri, tetra, etc.
- Be careful when naming/typing alkane functionalities.

On a related note, you're not making the best first impression on this forum. Take Nicodem's advice, and invest some serious effort into your research. One decade of bench work can be avoided by one minute of literature research. Don't waste our time, or your own. Hell, we've done half the work for you, by providing you with the literature. Now read it.