Sciencemadness Discussion Board - How to make copper fulminate

How to make copper fulminate

Vikascoder - 28-1-2012 at 06:42

Hi i have prepared some copper nitrate can it be add directly to ethyl alcohol directly to make copper fulminate as we make mercury fulminate in same way

Adas - 28-1-2012 at 08:11

I'd rather try reacting it with sodium cyanate.

Copper fulminate

Vikascoder - 29-1-2012 at 00:33

I dont have access to sodium cyanate

Pulverulescent - 29-1-2012 at 01:49

Your copper nitrate will be a hydrate and the water it contains may interfere in the reaction to form fulminate!
You may be able to desiccate it to monohydrate but heating the crystals will cause decomposition!
If your ethanol is 95% the reaction might proceed by gentle heating!
Try it on the small scale and be prepared for a vigorous reaction!
And use a very large beaker!

[edit]
AFAIK, copper fulminate doesn't have near the sensitivity of silver fulminate but treat it with caution, just the same!

P

[Edited on 29-1-2012 by Pulverulescent]

quicksilver - 29-1-2012 at 08:33

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

Hi i have prepared some copper nitrate can it be add directly to ethyl alcohol directly to make copper fulminate as we make mercury fulminate in same way

You need to do some studying and UTFSE prior to making threads that have been in existence for a LONG time. This is getting too close to spoon-feeding & there are responsibility issues with this.
Do a SEARCH on this issue or others prior to opening a new thread.

Pulverulescent - 29-1-2012 at 09:33

FOH, QS . . . ?

P

Rosco Bodine - 29-1-2012 at 10:16

Vikascoder - 13-3-2012 at 06:58

hey rosco bodine you can tell me the process instead of wasting your time in uploading this type of image . i searched but i still dont know whether it works or not

Mailinmypocket - 13-3-2012 at 07:22

Google really is amazing! You type what you want to find bang there you have it! Give it a try! www.google.com

http://books.google.ca/books?id=J55D3HcgPuoC&pg=PA119&am...

[Edited on 13-3-2012 by Mailinmypocket]

AndersHoveland - 13-3-2012 at 09:27

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder

I have prepared some copper nitrate can it be add directly to ethyl alcohol directly to make copper fulminate as we make mercury fulminate in same way

If it was anhydrous Cu(NO3)2, this might work, since anhydrous Cu(NO3)2 is a reactive nitrating agent. Howerver, the anhydrous form is difficult to prepare, and cannot be made by simply heating the hydrate, as the thermal decomposition results in other products.

"at temperatures below –5°, the reaction of diethyl ether with copper(II) nitrate yields exclusively gaseous ethyl nitrite and complexed acetaldehyde. At higher temperatures, the acetaldehyde is further oxidised to acetate, with liberation of gaseous NO and NO2"
Anhydrous copper(II) nitrate as an oxidising agent. L. C. Coard and R. E. Powell

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In

Making anhydrous copper nitrate takes a bit of chemistry
for as the books says it was previously thought that Cu(NO3)2 could not exist.

The copper nitrate that you prepared was obviously the hydrate. This is not going to react by itself with ethyl alcohol. The nitrate anion is very chemically stable.

Quote:

"From the similarity of copper to mercury and silver in its relations toward nitric acid, the authors were led to make several trials to prepare copper fulminate from alcohol, and either copper nitrate and mixed nitric oxides; or copper nitrate and nitric acid ; or copper nitrate, nitric acid, and nitrous acid, but all without success. The active catalytic oxidising power of cupric salts, which affects the action of nitric acid on copper, and so readily causes the destruction of hydroxylamine is sufficient to explain the failure. In proof of its being exerted in this case, they state that when N2O3 (NO and NO2) is passed for some time into an alcohol solution of copper nitrate, an abundant precipitation of copper oxalate is produced without any evident activity of the nitric acids which become absorbed by the alcohol."
Chemical news and journal of industrial science, Volume 52

Apparently, copper cannot be present during the formation of fulminate, since it catalytically decomposes the intermediate hydroxylamine, which is important for the reaction.

Copper(I) Acetylide

Perhaps another "novelty" explosive to consider is CuC2.
Copper Acetylide is prepared from cuprous chloride, Cu(I)Cl, in Ammonium Hydroxide, by bubbling in acetylene gas.
The coprous salt is may be difficult to obtain. One route is to heat CuCl2 over a flame, driving off Cl2 and leaving being CuCl. The CuCl is almost insoluble in water, while CuCl2 is very soluble.

Copper +2 salts also are able to oxidize iodide ions to iodine, also forming a solid coprous iodide (CuI) precipitate.

Copper(I) acetylide is an unusual explosive in that its instant decomposition is self sustained, but does not generate enough heat to vaporize any of the resultant products, and so there is only traces of gas (from impurities in the compound) to expand besides from the air. It is possible to make pure Cu2C2 that does not (or only weakly) explodes when initiated under a vacuum.

[Edited on 13-3-2012 by AndersHoveland]

bahamuth - 13-3-2012 at 10:00

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland

Copper(I) Acetylide

Perhaps another "novelty" explosive to consider is CuC2.
Copper Acetylide is prepared from cuprous chloride, Cu(I)Cl, in Ammonium Hydroxide, by bubbling in acetylene gas.

Works aswell by adding ammonia to a copper(II)sulfate solution until deep deep blue and bubble in acetylene, filter and wash with ethanol and dry. I consider it "safe" as I never got larger amounts to go off at once (more than 500mg at once). This compound decomposes in my experience without visual change to a non explosive compound after a day or two in air, especially if wet by water.

AndersHoveland - 13-3-2012 at 10:02

Supposedly Cu2C2 is vulnerable to hydrolysis with water, unlike Ag2C2.

quicksilver - 13-3-2012 at 11:49

Quote: Originally posted by Mailinmypocket

Google really is amazing! You type what you want to find bang there you have it! Give it a try! www.google.com

http://books.google.ca/books?id=J55D3HcgPuoC&pg=PA119&am...

[Edited on 13-3-2012 by Mailinmypocket]

Unfortunately Legard's "synthesis" is completely incorrect. "Copper Fulminate" is not made in the same methodology as Hg Fulminate. However one may introduce copper salts into a Hg Fulminate synthesis & this alters certain aspects of the energetic product. Metals with similar atomic weights appear to have this property. (Ni & Zn) while the hyper-sensitivity of Ag is also found in Cd and Pd.
There is a difference between "fulminating" silver, gold, etc and a (x) Fulminate. The discovery of the fulminating properties of Ag for instance was through the mfg of mirrors near the 18th century through the application of ammonia solution to the metal salts.

AndersHoveland - 13-3-2012 at 12:33

Ledgard's book is full of technical inaccuracies. So one cannot believe everything that is in it. It seems he was overreaching is knowledge of chemistry when he wrote it.
But I still think it is a good interesting book, with many useful procedures.

Vikascoder - 13-3-2012 at 20:31

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland

Copper(I) Acetylide

Perhaps another "novelty" explosive to consider is CuC2.
Copper Acetylide is prepared from cuprous chloride, Cu(I)Cl, in Ammonium Hydroxide, by bubbling in acetylene gas.

copper(I)acetyalide can be prepared by bubbling acetylene copper(II)sulfate mixed in ammonia is this correct

[Edited on 14-3-2012 by Vikascoder]