Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Lunacy Rules

Lunacy Rules

DerAlte - 10-12-2011 at 12:15

For crass ignorance and stupidy on all sides read the following:

Quote:

TULSA – Tulsa police arrested a 45-year-old woman they said mixed chemicals together to make methamphetamine inside a Wal-Mart store.

“She didn’t have the money to make the purchases of the chemicals that were needed so she was taking what was needed in the bottle,” Tulsa Police Officer David Shelby told FOX23.com.

Police said the suspect, Elizabeth Alisha Greta Halfmoon, had been in the store since noon on Thursday, taking chemicals from bottles and mixing them in order to make meth. She had been in the store for six hours, according to police.

Security officials called police once they spotted Halfmoon acting suspiciously.

Shelby said it was the first time he had seen anyone actually attempt to mix and make the drug in a store.

“When firefighters were on the scene she made statements to them that is what she was doing, she was attempting to obtain these chemicals and was in the process of trying to manufacture meth. However, she said she was not very good at it,” Shelby told the TV station.

One police officer received minor injuries when the chemicals in the bottle burned his hand. Nobody else was injured.

Shoppers expressed shock and outrage at the incident.

“Something could have happened, something could have blown up in there,” shopper Jonathan Tary told a television reporter.

Read complete coverage at FOX23.com

From http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/09/9327662-cops-wo...

Terminal idiocy and ignorance awards to the "suspect", the store personnel, the police, the firefighters, and most of all to Fox23 and US news. No doubt Home Security was alerted. All over a harmless nut case. I wonder what she was using...

Der Alte

[Edited on 10-12-2011 by DerAlte]

497 - 10-12-2011 at 13:25

How could that even be possible? It's not like there are bottles of pseudoephedrine on the shelves. if it was as simple as they make it sound it would have been done long ago. Ridiculous....

Magpie - 10-12-2011 at 16:07

Quote: Originally posted by DerAlte

I wonder what she was using...

In the opinions of the cretins involved all you need is one or more of the following: Coleman stove fuel, muriatic acid, Red Devil lye...and some coffee filters.

bbartlog - 10-12-2011 at 17:10

I'm not sure I'd classify her as a 'harmless nut case', inasfar as mixing together randomly chosen chemicals from half-remembered meth recipes could be a little bit dangerous either to her or others. Still, the reporting makes it sound like she would have or could have made meth, when she's obviously just addled.
The police officer who burned his hand should also be taken into protective custody, or at least not allowed near dangerous items like firearms.

Sedit - 10-12-2011 at 21:56

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.

hiperion42 - 11-12-2011 at 07:08

Adas - 11-12-2011 at 07:25

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.

That's really very impressive..

arsphenamine - 11-12-2011 at 08:03

Quote: Originally posted by Adas

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.

That's really very impressive..

What a remarkably polite way to shout "Bullshit!".

starman - 11-12-2011 at 09:10

If its of any note at all it certainly represents the ignorance of the media.It perpetuates the 'magic recipe' myth.I mean really! Mix a bit of this and that (widely available OTC) shake well in a bottle, filter (maybe) and kazoom! Glittering crystals of methamphetamine.

Sedit ,maybe you're just trying to stir the pot. I hope so.

[Edited on 11-12-2011 by starman]

Sedit - 11-12-2011 at 11:50

Quote: Originally posted by arsphenamine

Quote: Originally posted by Adas

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.

That's really very impressive..

What a remarkably polite way to shout "Bullshit!".

It is not bullshit it can be done, do you think I am going to post the reaction on the internet? Not a chance in hell. But as a little hint keep in mind the birch reduction does not need Liquid ammonia, there are alternatives out there.

Im not going to continue this conversation because its going to turn into a thread of people trying to weasle "how tos" out of me and I do not condone cooking meth.

PS: This is all based on if one could pull it off without getting caught like this woman did and that would be much harder then the reaction itself.

And Ill give the benifit of the doubt, perhaps it would take 3-4 hours instead, I mean one would have to hunt for the reagents first right.

[Edited on 11-12-2011 by Sedit]

zoombafu - 11-12-2011 at 13:27

I have no doubt that it is possible, however it would look oddly suspicious, and I have no idea how they even let her wander around the store for 6 hours before they thought she was doing something suspicious.

MagicJigPipe - 11-12-2011 at 21:20

I can't imagine anything found in Wal-Mart that would be suitable for dissolving lithium in. I did a quick search and apparently THF can be used with naphthalene as an "e- carrier" but could Li be the alkali used? I don't know. It just seems that it would be very difficult to make any sizable quantity in the store during normal business hours. Not to mention you would be limited to a certain amount of pseudoephedrine (2 boxes I think), which, even with 100% yield, would give you a maximum yield of only a couple of grams.

I mean, of course, if you had free reign in a Wal-Mart with access to all the tools, equipment and materials then you could EVENTUALLY do just about anything. But, to do even the simplest things without getting caught would be quite difficult.

Maybe with the proper amount of luck, ingenuity and intelligence someone would be able to pull it off and MAYBE get high once off of the stuff they made. But, you would think the attributes in the preceding sentence would preclude the very act in the first place.

Sedit - 11-12-2011 at 21:31

MJP, I will PM you later or tomorrow since I know you have little to no interest in cooking meth and tell you what Im talking about ok. There is Ammonia on the shelfs of walmart BTW you do realize that right?

Bot0nist - 12-12-2011 at 04:34

I guess that scary "shake and bake" method could be done in a couple hours if you weren't disturbed.

Everything for Birch is indeed at walmart. Of the top of my head. Ammonia salts, NaHO, pseudoephedrine (now locked behind the pharmacy) Li batteries, dry ice, solvents, tubing, containers, etc.

One can probably find H2O2, iodine solutions, HCl(aq), match covers, etc if you wanted to go the HI route. That would take more than a couple hours though. Just scraping the match covers, lol.

This lady must have been a grade a fucking idiot to even attempt it in the store. And the policeman being burned by what I assume is lye solution. He must be lacking in even basic (pun) common sense. Meth is bad, cooking meth is stupid, trying to cook meth in Walmart is fucking retarded, IMO.

arsphenamine - 12-12-2011 at 08:06

Pardon my ignorance but, stipulating that dry ice, lye, and NH4OH are available for generating NH3(l), how does one obtain elemental lithium? Li is present only as the salt (ClO4-?) in batteries.

Is there a method for in situ lithium production for the Birch Reaction?

Bot0nist - 12-12-2011 at 08:09

Quote: Originally posted by arsphenamine

how does one obtain elemental lithium? Li is present only as the salt (ClO4-?) in batteries.

No, elemental Li can be found in batteries if one has the tenacity to get it out. Check youtube. Millions of vids on this.

franklyn - 12-12-2011 at 10:01

In the action adventure television series Angus MacGyver a resourceful secret agent
with an encyclopedic knowledge of science and theatrical license is able to solve
complex problems with everyday materials he finds at hand.

This is your brain on meth , attempting improvisation requiring prodigious skill in the art.
" she said she was not very good at it ".

.

Rosco Bodine - 12-12-2011 at 12:58

If Colonel O'Neil went back in time to Hollywood by using the stargate during a solar flare, and he killed MacGyver in the past, would it be a grandfather paradox

Sedit - 12-12-2011 at 13:12

I am honestly surprised to find I am only one of the few that feels its possible for her to really make amphetamines using stuff found at Wal-mart. Its obvious there is a huge misunderstanding as to the mechanics of the birch reaction. Normally when someone suggest I am bullshitting about a reaction I will hop right on it like I did with the Nickle/copper separation thread but this is just one experiment I have no desire to produce meth or to risk jail time just to prove a point.

Bot0nist - 12-12-2011 at 13:29

I believe you. Most people would be surprised to know what all is available to the amateur chemist at WalMart if one is clever. While I have never reduced psuedoephedrine, I know that WalMart has every thing needed to make a few energetics. Both primaries and secondaries. Yeah, don't go trying to make an experiment to prove your point on this one. Not worth it.

Sedit - 12-12-2011 at 19:54

Your right its not nearly worth it, However....

Can anyone think of another substrate to test out the Birch reduction on that would be easy to separate from the formed product? I have been wanting to test this but have been unwilling to manufacture methamphetamine, What else could be reduced? Benzyl alcohol? Toluene could be reduced if I had KMnO4 to oxidize the formed product to isolate as its Sodium Phenolate salt but I have nothing to perform the oxidation of Cyclohexene(or whatever the fuck that product name is) unless Yall can think of another oxidizing agent that would work.

I'm almost finished working on a solvent based synthesis of Glacial acetic acid that was discussed a few weeks ago in another thread and the results are great and pictures and writeup are coming soon so when Im done that as long as ya'll can give me a substrate to test this on I will prove to you that the reaction I am thinking of can be performed in around two hours using only Wal-mart chemicals.

Doing it IN Walmart however takes the nerve of a drug addict which I just don't have. You have to be retarded and desperate for drugs to even think of trying this in a store.... Just steal the shit if you are really that fucking desperate for drugs and try to make it at home. What the hell was she thinking? This sounds like propaganda but who knows.

497 - 12-12-2011 at 21:05

Phenylephrine? The phenol should not interfere as far as I know...

Sedit - 12-12-2011 at 21:34

Separation of the reduced product however is an issue, I would rather reducing a benzene ring so that oxidation will allow easy separation and yield determination.

Plus if things went bad I would still look like a meth cook, now I would just look like a really really stupid meth cook.

Chordate - 17-12-2011 at 05:48

Sedit, I mean, hypothetically you could, but unless you know something I don't about dissolving metal reductions I can't imagine anything you rigged up in wal-mart being anything anhydrous or safe.

I think the "things going bad" possibility is pretty high, is what I am gettin at.

Sedit - 19-12-2011 at 17:27

It appears I do know something about "dissolving metal reductions"(the birch is not a DMR By the way) that you do not. It can... with ease, be done with chemicals obtained from Wal-mart much simpler then the traditional Birch reduction because there is no need to deal with liquid ammonia. I have never said anything in the past because the world already has enough dumb Meth cooks... does that information really need to be made highly public? I don't think so and I don't think I ever will.

Those who wish to perform a birch reduction for more reasonable substances will more then likely also be able to do the research needed to figure out what I am talking about and will have an understanding of the mechanics of the birch reduction so that it can be done with easy to get materials...

The rest can be left to wounder while they dick around with learning new ways to blow up there trailer.

rollercoaster158 - 5-5-2012 at 16:38

Quote:

“Something could have happened, something could have blown up in there,” shopper Jonathan Tary told a television reporter.

Ow! You're making me facepalm too hard!

Pyro - 18-5-2012 at 17:18

lol,
you know that a realistic possibility is that she wanted to get caught, if she can't afford to buy those chemicals she must be doing pretty bad, and i bet in her case she will be better off in prison, i mean that she will probably get fed more and better in prison, have somewhere warmer to sleep, etc.
and her being off the streets is just an 'added benefit''

Ephoton - 19-5-2012 at 04:16

ye thats mad as

sedit is right it can be done though plating the stuff up would be tricky with out getting done.

edgeofacliff - 5-6-2012 at 22:05

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.[/
You cannot get red devil lye or muriatic acid at wal-mart. If you think you could walk in to wal-mart and make meth in two hours with whats in the store you are either bullshitting us or you have some unknown recipe that many drug addicts would kill you for.

edgeofacliff - 5-6-2012 at 22:08

Quote: Originally posted by Pyro

lol,
you know that a realistic possibility is that she wanted to get caught, if she can't afford to buy those chemicals she must be doing pretty bad, and i bet in her case she will be better off in prison, i mean that she will probably get fed more and better in prison, have somewhere warmer to sleep, etc.
and her being off the streets is just an 'added benefit''

Prison? she wont go to prison, chances are she was released and will get probation.

edgeofacliff - 6-6-2012 at 13:20

The entire episode sounds like something dreamed up by a child. Is it possible someone told this woman a fairy tale about cooking meth and she believed it? Discussing ways this could be accomplished by someone with a chemistry background does not seem to me a worthwhile conversation. Besides, doing something like that with the "Asset Protection" unit watching seems more like a magicians trick, if not downright impossible.

Pyro - 6-6-2012 at 13:48

yeah, but my point is she may want to go to prison...

Eliteforum - 9-6-2012 at 00:10

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.

Yeah.. Course!

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

It is not bullshit it can be done, do you think I am going to post the reaction on the internet? Not a chance in hell.

Which means "Of course I'm talking out my arse, and as I haven't a hope in hell of proving I'm not talking out my arse, I'm just going to get on my high horse and bullshit how I'm not going to share my 'recipe' *yawn* "

Rogeryermaw - 18-6-2012 at 17:49

Quote: Originally posted by Eliteforum

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

Its not impossible people, I'm sure I could walk into walmart and in about 2 hours have a batch of meth finished so don't discount this story just yet.

Yeah.. Course!

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

It is not bullshit it can be done, do you think I am going to post the reaction on the internet? Not a chance in hell.

don't be stupid. walmart has housewares(glass and filter), automotive(solvent/acid), hardware/home improvement(strong base), sporting goods(other solvent), electronics(reducing metal) and pharmacy(ammonia and precursor) sections. of course it can be done. not wanting to outline an easy to follow procedure for kiddies and kewls does not equate to a lack of knowledge.

obvious troll is obvious.

Eliteforum - 20-6-2012 at 04:01

dann2 - 20-6-2012 at 04:21

Rogeryermaw - 20-6-2012 at 11:19

don't get mad cuz you got beat. just admit you don't know every damn thing and go on.

Sedit - 20-6-2012 at 15:09

LOL, what a sad way to attempt to weasel information out of me Eliteforum, funny part is jokes on you because there are some around here who know exactly what I'm talking about and you just don't happen to be one of them.

Its not a high horse to have no desire to "share my recipe" considering I already have, on this forum matter of fact, but its dumbasses like you and these other low grade meth cooks that can't see a reaction for what it is and need a recipe in the first place.

chemrox - 21-6-2012 at 11:12

Wasn't there a discussion awhile back on a new and cruder version of the "nazi" method? I recall asking a question. It seems that it was reported in the popular (I can't call it 'news') media that meth-freaks were mixing batteries, fertilizer and sudafed in a bottle and getting enough crude meth out of it to get a rush along with a bunch of shit that CY 450 can't deal with and probably causes blood poisoning (if they're lucky-it could be much worse). Anyway the stories were about freaks getting a pack of batteries, a bag of fertilizer some red pills and a bottle and doing the deed in the parking lot. I think they smoke it so the chances for detonation might exist too. I somehow have a bit of a problem believing this one. It sounded like an urban, cop legend.

Rogeryermaw - 21-6-2012 at 16:44

that does sound like the media in cahoots with the authorities using scare tactics. what you describe would end in a bottle with pills, powder and some batteries in it. no reductive environment.

Vogelzang - 23-6-2012 at 10:02

http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/drugs/methamphetamine/

http://www.rotten.com/

[Edited on 23-6-2012 by Vogelzang]