Sciencemadness Discussion Board - How to turn lead into pink-red

How to turn lead into pink-red

den_zuk - 8-12-2011 at 19:09

Hi there,
I have a question, is it possible to make lead to look like a copper ( i mean in color primary), but i'm not talking surface coloration, idea is when i cut for example part of lead - all internal visible surface to be colored in pink-red.
I found some process using bismuth, is it the only one option?

Endimion17 - 9-12-2011 at 05:02

It's like asking a question can you turn sulphur green, and to still have sulphur. The answer is no.

blogfast25 - 9-12-2011 at 05:53

Ok. What you do is, right, you go to one of them magic shops on the high street and buy a magic wand (you should be able to get some bargains with X-mas coming up!) Don't forget to buy a decent spell as well: abracadabra is over used!

watson.fawkes - 9-12-2011 at 06:47

Quote: Originally posted by den_zuk

I have a question, is it possible to make lead to look like a copper [...] all internal visible surface to be colored in pink-red.
I found some process using bismuth, is it the only one option?

Are you looking for a high-lead alloy with these properties?

If you're trying to make counterfeit copper, it's likely that the alloying components are more expensive than copper itself.

Wizzard - 9-12-2011 at 06:51

You could use pink/red tinted sunglasses.

[Edited on 12-9-2011 by Wizzard]

Phosphor-ing - 9-12-2011 at 06:54

Why don't you post the example using Bismuth that you were talking about so we know what you're talking about?

[Edited on 9-12-2011 by Phosphor-ing]

Endimion17 - 9-12-2011 at 08:52

Alloy of lead is alloy of lead. It's not lead anymore.

Pair of pink shades is a good idea, thought everything else would turn pink, too. But in the end, "think pink" isn't such a bad idea, either.
Some pink cellophane wrap might be the thing you need. Make a lead ingot and cover it in pink cellophane. It's still lead, yet it looks pink. It won't be pink inside, but that's a start.

Wizzard - 9-12-2011 at 09:07

How about metallic plastic/wax? That may work also, and accepts dyes to be any color you'd like.

Tungsten-doped waxes and plastics can be pretty dense.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EAR-WEIGHT-TUNGSTEN-POWDER-TIPPING-D...

ScienceSquirrel - 9-12-2011 at 09:17

Quote: Originally posted by Wizzard

How about metallic plastic/wax? That may work also, and accepts dyes to be any color you'd like.

Tungsten-doped waxes and plastics can be pretty dense.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EAR-WEIGHT-TUNGSTEN-POWDER-TIPPING-D...

That must be the strangest product I have ever seen.

sternman318 - 9-12-2011 at 13:51

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17

It's like asking a question can you turn sulphur green, and to still have sulphur. The answer is no.

Well, molten sulfur is red

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burning-sulfur.png

Endimion17 - 9-12-2011 at 16:11

Quote: Originally posted by sternman318

Well, molten sulfur is red

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burning-sulfur.png

Yes, it's red. Therefore, it's not green. What's your point?

den_zuk - 9-12-2011 at 20:02

in fact all of you guys are correct...this bismuth voodoo that my friend gave me was total fake ( some kind of nuclear reaction by my understanding)
i'm trying to make lead to look like a copper from counterfeit point (our guys here check on places where collect these metals only with eyes and with magnet), and as we know there is a plenty metals that not responding well to magnet forces, but this coating chemistry is deadly regarding lead.
maybe there is a second issue - these two metals are too different in their use - copper is used primary for cables, but it will be very hard to cast lead into such tiny cables

Bot0nist - 9-12-2011 at 20:11

Lead to copper for profit? An alchemist at heart, ehh.

If you can find a vendor that can provide you with a philosopher's stone you could go lead to gold and really make a killing.

Mr. Wizard - 9-12-2011 at 20:15

Perhaps he is talking about red lead oxide? Minium Lead Tetroxide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_tetroxide

[Edited on 10-12-2011 by Mr. Wizard]

blogfast25 - 10-12-2011 at 09:40

Quote: Originally posted by den_zuk

in fact all of you guys are correct...this bismuth voodoo that my friend gave me was total fake ( some kind of nuclear reaction by my understanding)

Nuclear reaction? Sounds like you've been duped twice. A donkey only stubs his toe once!

peach - 11-12-2011 at 12:48

Quote:

i'm trying to make lead to look like a copper from counterfeit point (our guys here check on places where collect these metals only with eyes and with magnet), and as we know there is a plenty metals that not responding well to magnet forces, but this coating chemistry is deadly regarding lead.
maybe there is a second issue - these two metals are too different in their use - copper is used primary for cables, but it will be very hard to cast lead into such tiny cables

People who've been handling literally tons of metal per day for years and years of their life will be able to tell them apart, or that something funny is going on, simply by the feel and look of it; in that it'll be quite a bit heavier than a bucket of copper parts the same size. They won't be happy if you try that.

People do try it, and have been, for a long time.

The Aztecs used to, but were way ahead of the game as they'd make copper look like Gold.

Quote:

In depletion gilding, a subtractive process discovered in Pre-columbian Mesoamerica, articles are fabricated by various techniques from an alloy of copper and gold, named tumbaga by the Spaniards. The surface is etched with acids, resulting in a surface of porous gold. The porous surface is then burnished down, resulting in a shiny gold surface. The results fooled the conquistadors into thinking they had massive quantities of pure gold. The results startled modern archaeologists, because at first the pieces resemble electroplated articles.

That fooled the Conquistadors for a while, who promptly stole all their stuff on arrival, but it is certainly not going to fool a gold trader today.

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ScienceSquirrel - 11-12-2011 at 17:14

I suspect that it is easier to pass off closely related metals like copper and silver than very dissimilar metals like lead and copper.
An item made of copper silver alloy with silver plate on top could be hard to detect without lab tests to determine density or drilling and sample analysis.
Even moderate adulteration would yield a good profit as copper is so much cheaper than silver.

Wizzard - 12-12-2011 at 06:08

Don't forget W with a thick plating of Au is indistinquishable by any means other than x-ray without destroying the sample entirely

peach - 13-12-2011 at 09:21

I would hazard a guess the refineries are already onto that and have a camera photographing or filming all the materials going in. And will destroy (shred) the sample (find the W) prior to melting it, then check the camera and go back to the supplier, who'll then call the police and give them your details.

Wizzard - 13-12-2011 at 11:59

@Peach- Most places keep ingots as-is... They would need to be re-measured and everything, while the ingots are stamped, shaped and serialized.