Sciencemadness Discussion Board

A list of delayed-acting poison

7-cartridge - 13-11-2011 at 10:43

I am making the list of delayed effect toxic substances.

A latency period is one years or more.
- Aflatoxin
- Nitrosodimethylamine
- Nitrosodiethylamine

More than half a month
- Dimethylmercury
- Diethylmercury
- Tetramethyltin
- Tetraethyltin
- Fadogia homblei poison

Several days
- Methylmercury
- Trialkyltin
- Nickel tetracarbonyl
- Iron pentacarbonyl
- Thiosarin
- NPF (Neopentylene phosphoryl fluoridate)
- NPSF (Neopentylene thiophosphorus fluoridate)

What kind of thing is there in addition to this?

White Yeti - 13-11-2011 at 11:01

An interesting first post....
There are certain mushrooms that contain poisons that have delayed effects. Among them:
-Amanita phalloides
-Amanita ocreata
-Conocybe filaris
-Galerina autumnalis

The poisons contained in these mushrooms have effects that manifest themselves ~24h after ingestion, causing kidney and liver failure. Scary stuff, I hope you are not thinking about working with these chemicals. If you plan to manipulate these poisons, I strongly suggest you reconsider.

7-cartridge - 13-11-2011 at 16:39

Thank you for your reply.
I add some compounds.

- O,O,S-Trimethyl phosphorothioate
- o-Phthalonitrile
- Acrylamide (false charge?)
- Thallium salt
- Bromomethane

I am interested in whether Selenosarin and Selenosoman are a delayed effect.
It is said that they are kinds of Novichok.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent
(Please read the bottom figure.)

White Yeti - 13-11-2011 at 16:56

Looks good.
What do you mean by thallium salt?

7-cartridge - 13-11-2011 at 20:11

Thallium salt is thallium acetate, thallium sulfate, etc.

Addition

Carcinogen
- Azoxymethane (Explosiveness?)
- Azoxypropane (Explosiveness?)
- Methyl methanesulfonate
- Ethyl methanesulfonate
- Ethidium bromide

Poison
- Cobalt hydrocarbonyl
- Tetraalkyl lead
- Mercury vapor
- Cadmium
- Acromelic acid and Clitidine(Non-fatality)

Semi-chemical substance
- Prion

Endimion17 - 14-11-2011 at 03:06

I don't really see the sense in naming "all the poisons" because everything can be a poison.
Even if you want to list chemicals that are usually considered poisonous, you'd have to write a book. A big one.

woelen - 14-11-2011 at 05:01

I agree with Endimion17, many common chemicals can be added to this and many of those have delayed effects, just to mention a few:

- soluble hexavalent chromium compounds are carcinogens when inhaled (e.g. potassium dichromate, ammonium dichromate, sodium chromate, chromium trioxide)
- nitrites indirectly are carcinogens, due to transformation to nitrosamines in the stomach
- benzene is a carcinogen
- p-aminophenol and related compounds (e.g. metol, p-diaminobenzene, hydroquinone) used in photography are senzitizers which can cause extreme allergic reactions after a long time.
- ....
- ....

And so the list can continue many many pages. You see, you even do not have to mention exotic chemicals like carbonyls or complicated organic molecules, synthesized by plants or fungi. Even simple inorganic compounds or simple aromatic compounds can have delayed effects.

bquirky - 14-11-2011 at 05:16

In this context I would interprate poison to mean 'a substance suitable in small quantitys for deliberately poisoning oneself or another'

7-cartridge - 14-11-2011 at 14:11

I'm sorry.
My mother tongue is not English.
Using an automatic translation, I read and write.
Therefore I may not understand the remark of all of you very much.

It is not all poison that I want to list.
I list highly toxic materials.

Delayed poison is found well when I search it in HSDB of TOXNET with "a latent period".

Addition

- Brodifacoum
- Coumatetralyl
- Diphenadione
- p-Cresyl diphenyl phosphate
- Tricresyl Phosphate
- Orellanine

Endimion17 - 14-11-2011 at 15:00

Then you can list pretty much all body-soluble actinide salts because they get stuck inside you and give you cancer after a while.
But then again, they don't have to be soluble in body. You can inhale dusts and develop lung cancer after a while.

simba - 14-11-2011 at 16:17

I think phosgene and other carbonyl halides definitely deserve a place in this list.

7-cartridge - 14-11-2011 at 18:36

That's right.
Phosgene and PFIB, bis(trifluoromethyl)disulfide, others have a latency period.
Methyl fluoroacetate is also the same.

However, I did not add these to a list because a latency period was often around several hours.
This is because a list avoids getting longer.

Panache - 15-11-2011 at 00:41

This is interesting, I think it's a very valid topic provided the definition quirky nominated is adhered to. Otherwise it's impossible I mean barium sulphate posions palladium catalyst doesn't it should it be on the list, of course not, so perhaps withhold from referring to toxic chemicals with broad unpredetermined effects.
Maybe this will become the default reference for writers of CSI television dramas.

unionised - 15-11-2011 at 11:39

The "delayed action" poisons are certainly interesting. I think we should add paracetamol (acetaminophen) to the list.
I also hope that not to many murderers read this page.

hissingnoise - 15-11-2011 at 12:43

Quote:
I also hope that not to many murderers read this page.

Or psychopathic wannabees . . . ?


AJKOER - 15-11-2011 at 12:57

OK, if a delayed acting toxin is one where you have received a lethal dose, but don't know it yet for sure (that is, you are in effect a walking dead), you might consider adding H2S (which numbs the sense of smell and is ingesting via the skin as well), and also the sweet smelling ClO2 to your list.

White Yeti - 15-11-2011 at 13:16

You could probably also put neutron radiation as a "delayed" effect poison (I know it's not a chemical substance per se, but it deserves a place on the list). When you receive a lethal dose of neutrons, you enter a period of "walking ghost", where things look like they are improving, and then your organs start to fail and you die a brutal and painful death.

7-cartridge - 15-11-2011 at 15:46

- Flocoumafen
- Difenacoum
- Coumachlor
- Chlorophacinone
- Difethialone
- Coumafuryl
- Valone
- Pyriminil (Pyrinuron)
- MPTP

Most are rodenticide.

Random - 16-11-2011 at 06:30

Everything is a poison and nothing is without poison.

hissingnoise - 16-11-2011 at 07:16

Oxygen is very slow-acting . . .


simba - 16-11-2011 at 18:10

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Oxygen is very slow-acting . . .




Water is pretty hazardous too, everyone that drinks it will die someday, which proves its delayed toxic effects. :cool:

7-cartridge - 16-11-2011 at 18:20

- Abrin
- Chlorosoman
- Ethylene glycol (not highly toxic)
- Diethylene glycol (not highly toxic)

Is this post the 40000th?

Random - 19-11-2011 at 12:58

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Oxygen is very slow-acting . . .




actually, it/s free radicals in the body damage the DNA and may be the possible cause of cancer which is slow acting

White Yeti - 20-11-2011 at 07:42

Quote: Originally posted by Random  
Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Oxygen is very slow-acting . . .




actually, it/s free radicals in the body damage the DNA and may be the possible cause of cancer which is slow acting


And the free radicals come from the reduction of elemental oxygen inside the body.

simba - 20-11-2011 at 08:57

Quote: Originally posted by Random  
Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Oxygen is very slow-acting . . .




actually, it/s free radicals in the body damage the DNA and may be the possible cause of cancer which is slow acting


Then other substances such as methanol shouldn't be considered toxic also, since its toxicity comes from our body's action on it, which oxidizes it into the both harmful formaldehyde and formic acid, but methanol itself isn't poinsonous.

White Yeti - 20-11-2011 at 09:04

Quote: Originally posted by shivas  

Then other substances such as methanol shouldn't be considered toxic also, since its toxicity comes from our body's action on it, which oxidizes it into the both harmful formaldehyde and formic acid, but methanol itself isn't poinsonous.


In that case, there are tons of other substances that could be eliminated from that list. Ethylene glycol for one, wouldn't be a poison either. The body metabolises it into oxalic acid, which is toxic. Many poisons (especially the ones that are slow acting) are toxic because of what the body does with them. Many slow acting poisons are slow acting because they get metabolised into harmful intermediates before excretion.