I know that other forum members are afficionados of industrial scavenging so thought I would post some of my recent acquisitions and findings.
I recently made the decision to convert my home furnace from electric to natural gas. Like a true scavenger I was waiting like a vulture as the HVAC
technician struggled out from under my house with the cut up old furnace. I was delighted to see that he had not damaged any of the 5 ea 5000W -220V
heating elements. Next time he popped out of the hole he had an undamaged air handler (squirrel cage, belt driven blower) which I again quickly
scarfed. As I was getting a new air conditioner at the same time I enquired about using the old compressor as a vacuum pump. But we both agreed that
this would not likely work as it needs the coolant carried oil as lubricant. Perhaps I should have grabbed the expansion and compression coils but
they had their designs on those for copper salvage, which may have been part of the bid. I then salvaged the old thermostat which I knew at least had
some mercury in it. I next will be changing out my hot water heater. On this I will be looking for heating elements and sacrifiical anodes.
I conclude that an HVAC boneyard would be a rich source of industrial size piping and equipment for the home tinkerer/mad scientist.
EbC: Title
[Edited on 26-9-2005 by chemoleo]Saerynide - 28-3-2004 at 00:28
Dumpster diving in the school recycling stuff got me a 12v lead acid battery
It was so heavy to walk home with
Edit: I havent figured out how to charge it without risking it exploding
[Edited on 28-3-2004 by Saerynide]Organikum - 28-3-2004 at 13:23
12V lead-acid battery? A car-battery charger should be fine or if you dont have one, almost any DC source with 14V to15V should do the trick. Check
the battery if it is still filled with water/acid and refill so necessary (and possible).
Explosion is VERY unprobable as long as you dont connect the battery to an extreme strong electricity source - wall outlet directly or such nonsense.
battery charging
Magpie - 28-3-2004 at 21:47
My understanding of the hazard with battery charging is the accumulation of hydrogen in the vicinity of a spark source. I charge my car batteries all
the time with a battery charger as it seems someone is always leaving a dome light on or a door unclosed. I think modern car batteries are sealed and
must have a hydrogen recombiner to make water out of the generated hydrogen as you don't have to check liquid level anymore. And car batteries
are necessarily under constant charging by the aleternator. Does anyone know - am I right on this?
The old style unsealed batteries vented the H2 and you had to be careful when charging them that the gas didn't accumulate and then get set off
by a spark as you were connecting a terminal. This explosion would then spray the hapless victim with sulfuric acid blinding same.
If there is a H2 recombiner there must be a catalyst, right? Ah - more opportunities for scavenging!Saerynide - 29-3-2004 at 00:35
My battery is sealed, so Im scared too high of a voltage would electrolyze the water in it, then build up gas pressure and explode/spray H2SO4
I did some reading on sealed batteries, and IIRC, theres a narrow range of voltages and currents that would be just enough to not break up the water,
and it is in that range that you charge at. Very difficult indeed without a charger
compressor as vacuum pump
Ithacacian - 18-8-2004 at 17:45
Know its been a while on this thread however...
Magpie:
Air conditioner compressors do indeed rely on the freon/oil mix for lubrication and cooling, however, you can run one hot for upwards of an hour
without incurring permanent damage. And most have a circuit on the top of the compressor which prevent you from turning it back on if its too hot. As
for lubrication, you can get refrigerator compressor oil at a HVAC place for a few dollars. Just put it in very slowly at the intake drop by drop for
a few minutes while the things running with a collection cup at the output before doing what you want.
These have reasonably good vacuum characteristics, depending on the BTU rating. I believe the 8000 BTU model I had occasion to use had the same cu
ft./min ability as a small Sargent Welch. In good operating condition at least 50 mm Hg and possibly an order of magnitude less. Refrigeration
service pumps and freezer compressors are better though because they don't have the cooling problems and may go lower.
Anyhow, I used an 8000 BTU window AC compressor successfully in a CO2 laser, and it got down low enough - about 50 mm Hg give or take is the threshold
for success.
Just one more note on the recycling of lead batteries: I had a go at it once, cus I didn't want to buy a fresh one.
I took out the PbO2/PbSO4 etc covered lead plates and physically scraped them off, until the lead underneath would shine out. Then refueled it with
H2SO4 (32%), and it worked fine thereafter. I don't know how well it worked by comparsion to a new one though - but it worked.
Also, I was thinking lately that it should be easy to get rid of the PbO2/PbSO4 with NaOH conc - as soluble lead salts are formed. That way there is
no need taking the plates out.
old computers
Magpie - 18-9-2004 at 19:07
I recently bought a new computer so now have the old one stored in my garage in 2 large boxes. I need the space for my lab equipment so am thinking
of giving the computer away. Another possibility is to salvage it for certain components and then pitch the remainder.
I would like to query the forum on what components would likely be useful for chemistry and why. It is a Gateway 2000 desktop of 1997 vintage.axehandle - 18-9-2004 at 19:41
The PSU would be very good for electrochemical procedures. Some hotwiring of it is necessary, I can provide a small howto if it's needed.vulture - 19-9-2004 at 01:38
Computer PSU are the holy grail for electrolysis: high currents at low voltages.
It has also once crossed my mind to salvage harddisk motors for high speed magnetic stirring...
And ofcourse the fans...JohnWW - 19-9-2004 at 02:31
If it is your only other computer, you should keep it for emergency use in case your new computer breaks down. At the same time, you could link it to
the new computer to back up your data on. As a precaution against a house fire, you should keep the old computer in your garage for data backup
purposes.
John W.Organikum - 19-9-2004 at 05:06
Not the harddisk motors but the neodym magnets in the hdd´s are the hit.
Dont remove them from the base-plates, as they need those for full power. The plates also shield the backspace from magnetism.Magpie - 19-9-2004 at 19:04
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to pop the hood and see what I can find in my CPU.
What about the CRT - any uses for that? I recall threads on "flyback transformers," but IIRC the neon sign transformers are better for high
voltage arcs.neutrino - 21-9-2004 at 15:56
You might be able to salvage some lanthanides from the phosphors, but there really isn't too much point in destroying a perfectly good monitor
for those. ebay the monitor. As for the tower... blow it up or ligt it on fire and watch with satisfaction as the gateway finally gets what's
coming to it.
Edit:
Almost forgot: if you don't want to hassle w/shipping the thing to the winning bidder, donate it to charity as a tax writeoff.
[Edited on 21-9-2004 by neutrino]
Gateway tower slavaged
Magpie - 25-9-2004 at 15:54
Ok, here's what I salvaged from my old Gateway CPU:
1 ea 140W DC power supply; this I hope (w/axehandle's help) to use for electrolysis
2 very small disk drive motors
2 LED's w/wiring
1 tiny laser from the CD drive
1 neodymium magnet w/plates from the hard drive
I threw away alot of silicon (chips). We need to come up with some uses for doped Si.
Personal computers were unkown when I was in school so I have no formal education in computer components or operation. So this salvaging operation is
helping.
Organikum that is one sombitchin strong magnet!
Maggie
Computers
MadHatter - 26-9-2004 at 07:55
Magpie, when I started my sophomore year in high school(1973) the 1st
mini-computers were out. I learned to program in BASIC+ on a DEC PDP-11/04.
Hell, cellphones have more memory than that behemoth did ! My 1st PC
was a Pentium MMX 166 MHz machine made by NEC. When the motherboard
finally cooked itself, I stripped out the components and gave them to various
members of my family.
I now have an HP Pavillion 933 MHz which I have upgraded continuously.
I don't need a faster processor for my work.
Upgrades to this system include:
Maxed out memory to 768 MB
2nd harddrive - 120 GB Maxtor(primary drive is 60 GB Maxtor)
Viewsonic PF790 19" CRT monitor
Plextor 708a DVD burner(replaced Samsung SD-612 DVD ROM)
Creative Labs Soundblaster 5.1 Live ! soundcard w/speakers
ATI RADEON 9600 SE graphics cards w/128 MB memory
Hauppauge WinPVR-250 personal video recorder
CyperPower 1500 joule UPS
Nikon Coolpix 5200 5.1 mp camera
Carryovers from the 1st computer are a Canon S300 printer, Microtek
ScanMaker V6upl flatbed scanner, and an Iomega 100 MB zip drive.
It's been expensive but carried out over the course of 3 years. I don't
have any PCI slots left in this computer so if I need more devices I'll
have to get a new PC. Wouldn't be a bad thing though, the newer
processors are more than 4 times as fast as my current model.vulture - 26-9-2004 at 08:06
My big toe tells me this thread is going to end in an Intel vs AMD flamewar
So let's keep this on topic eh?
EDIT: Anyone care to start a AMD vs Intel flamewar in whimsy?
[Edited on 26-9-2004 by vulture]
AMD vs Intel
MadHatter - 26-9-2004 at 09:05
Vulture, I'll pass on that 1 ! I don't know the 1st thing about the AMD
processor. I like my Intel so I'll go with what I have. Thanks anyway !jimwig - 28-9-2004 at 18:09
from most recent to the distant past
a working impreller pump (dumpster) 120vac
a laptop computer- works no keyboard response
a ton of electrical equipment - boxes, conduit, devices from a industrial/loft job that was just thrown away afterward.
next day a laptop type scanner USB
another pentium that had been through a fire but works
two guts of pentium 3 - CPU's, some memory and hard drives, cd, no cases
lots of stainless steel tubing and ss valves and vessels - from metal recycler but practically free.
all kinds of bicycle parts
a toster oven
a stainless steel diving "air" tank NICE #3000 psi on this. hydrogenation vessel!!!
a ton of stepper motors, power supplies, and various other scrap from larger IBM equipment including about 20 pounds of magnesium from hard drives.
a real score - 54 brand new speed reducers - industrial models - traded them for $1700 worth of stuff from the junk and recycle yard - a band saw, a
Miller AC/DC welder etc (4 for fure use)
a complete package photo color printer in a dumpter - too heavy to remove so I dismantled and saved the guts. lenses etc.
this goes on and on
many motors, pumps, industrial obsolete machinery including solid state controllers, thermocouple wire, and on and on.
got a bunch of chemicals from a polymer r/d lab that bit the dust. some glass but mostly large sacks of phthalic anhydride, benzoic acid, maleic
anhydride, trimilletic acid, etc. and many smaller chems. same place I bought all their borosilicate glass - two cases with 5mm to 48mm tubing.
another dumpster full of electrical fittings and supplies.
that isn't all but I have run out of memory.
Oh yeah there was that dumpster that was filled with electronics text equipment- Systron Donner stuff, lab power supplies, and ton of electronic
components in sorted plastic draw cases, and fabrication and jig components. must have been a jobber that did sub assemblies.
ANYWHO - if you are traveling somewhere take the time to dve the industrial areas.
bye bye
Scrapheap Challenge
Dr.Freemanstein - 23-9-2005 at 02:10
I am currently trying to source certain materials on the cheap, which means I have been cannibalising a lot of stuff to get the materials etc. that I
need. What I have not yet encountered a great deal, is Stainless Steel tubing.
Does anyone have any ideas what item(s) I should be looking for to obtain a decent quantity/range of bores???bio2 - 23-9-2005 at 02:39
You're not likely to find much SS in the junk but a good source for used tubing is boat handrails.
Check the marine welder/mechanics for a good deal and bring along a tiny magnet.IrC - 23-9-2005 at 06:20
If you have any companies that process foods such as chicken nearby you will find they have lots of SS tubing and other shapes.Magpie - 23-9-2005 at 07:34
The chemical process industries (including all types of food processing) use a great deal of stainless steel tubing and piping. It is usually grade
304 but where halide resistance is needed you will often find grade 316 also. When I worked in industry there was always a lot of piping in the
"boneyard." How to get access to it is the real question. They may end up selling it to a scrap metal dealer or even have auctions. But I
suspect much of it is just buried due to liability concerns over contamination. This shouldn't be an issue for food processing piping, however.
Dr.Freemanstein - 23-9-2005 at 08:37
Thanks guys, you have given me loads of ideas. It just so happens I have several boatyards nearby, and a few food processing factories. I'll
give them a whirl
[Edited on 23-9-2005 by Dr.Freemanstein]uber luminal - 23-9-2005 at 15:30
keep in mind that Scrappers (people that collect scrap metal for a living) make a lot of their money on Stainless. Its actualy very difficult to find
it as scrap. you might have to buy it, or make it if your able. (which your porbably not, if you are looking for SS)
Sometimes its hard to tell what is SS and what is not. Most people would claim you could use a magnet and see if it sticks or not, and this works for
most but not all SS. And its hard to describe what the difference is, but its based on how the metal has been processed throughout its entire life.
(and what substitutional atoms are added(what impurities are added)).
So how do you tell SS from galvanized or other corrosion resistive coatings? scratching the surface with something harder than steel. you can see
color differences. OR how much corrosion has taken place around the suspect metal. If its attached to something that is really rusty, but the metal
you are looking at is shiny... or only has mild pitting, then it might be SS... or it might be glavanized heh. You can acid etch the metal as a test.
HCl or even Acetic acid will react with the zinc in most galvanic coatings. you can buy food grade SS cups/beakers, plates as used for camping or
drinking expensive coffee...
I found a set of SS mugs for $4. thats 4/$4. plates can be just as cheap and can be reshaped or cut.
Stainless
chloric1 - 23-9-2005 at 17:21
hey, a nice source is your closest Salvation Army or Goodwill. I almost always see stainless cookware on the cheap. A majority is even marked
"stainless".
Most people that donate this really don't understand/care what they dispose of. But then again, try to find pure copper in such a place
Myself, I have been thinking about buying a ladle and cutting off the handle for an easy steel crucible. KOH fusions anyone?
[Edited on 9/24/2005 by chloric1]Eclectic - 24-9-2005 at 01:42
Use a magnet to test your stainless steel.
400 series stainless steels are magnetic high chromium content, the GOOD stuff is nonmagetic 8% nickel, 18% chromium, the REALLY GOOD stuff is 10%
nickel, 18% chromium, 3% molybdenum for chloride resistance.
[Edited on 24-9-2005 by Eclectic]Dr.Freemanstein - 24-9-2005 at 08:40
Cheers guys, I'll bear all that in mind while i'm on the hunt. If I were to have access to a forge, Uber, where would you suggest looking
to find the neccessary ingredients for Really Good SS???12AX7 - 24-9-2005 at 09:56
Ingredients? Pffbt.. just go to a ferrous foundry (look in the yellow pages). They'll pour a shape for you cheaper than you'll even build
an arc or induction furnace capable of melting and casting the metal.
It melts around 2600°F = 1425°C.
TimDr.Freemanstein - 24-9-2005 at 11:11
Hmm....yes sorry for that, could have used a better word than "ingredients".
Thanks tho, very helpfull.Eclectic - 24-9-2005 at 17:36
Good stainless= 304 Really good=316, 317. Try a plumbing supply. 316 1/4" tubing is used in soda fountains. Any non-magnetic stainless is
likely to be 300 series. 300-304 will become slightly magnetic when cold worked: ie, beat the hell out of a small area with a hammer, and if it does
not become slightly magnetic, it's probably 316.
(I like metallurgy and machining)
[Edited on 25-9-2005 by Eclectic]chloric1 - 25-9-2005 at 08:16
Wow eclectic that is some profoundly practical information. Do work regularly with ferrous alloys? I was under the impression that NONE of the SS
alloys would interact with a magnet. HMMM I will have to remember these tests.froot - 25-9-2005 at 10:52
Look around for old boilers and heat exchangers too. Some are made from stainless and contain a lifetime's supply of tubing.
Other possibly useful goodies I've found in a junkyard:
lithium from batteries
mercury level switches
teflon/copper/aluminium in various forms
lead
Thermocouples
ceramic tubing
nichrome wire
transformers
HT diodes and SCR's/triacs
plumbing/hydraulic paraphinalea
basically unused catalyst converters
refrigeration compressors...
the list goes on.
Dr.Freemanstein - 25-9-2005 at 11:07
WOW! Thanks froot....thats alot of suggestions!!! Should have no trouble finding what i need now
Scrounging
DrP - 4-10-2005 at 05:22
I got some good bits when the local Uni had a clear out of their science dept.s. Helps if you know someone there who can point you in the right
direction - i.e. towards the heap of things to be thrown out.
Got 2 x 3dp ballances
Waterbath / heaters and stirrers
various mixers
range of solvents and chemicals
mercury filled pressure gauge
There was alot of stuff I didn't take because I didn't need it at the time, like a rotor evap.
I REALLY kicked myuself for not grabbing an entire HPLC kit from the skip!!!! An injection port, a pump, collomb housing and a detector. I left it
there and it was gone 3 days later when I went back for it!! Prob. didn't work entirely but surely some bits would have been repairable.
Also missed out on a vacuum oven. (seals were probably broke - but again, for nought I think I could have tried to fix it)
I really need a scanning UV spectrometer for some work I'm doing - I've been trying to scrounge one but, unsurprisingly, not having any
luck.epck - 4-10-2005 at 10:54
I just picked up a vacuum pump from my local university scrapheap as well. There was a sticker on it saying the motor was bad but it seems to work
just fine. However, there was no oil in it which leads me to the following question.
Is it absolutely necessary to use official vacuum pump oil in vacuum pumps? Could I use, say, motor oil or some other oil in them? Would there just
be a decrease in performence or would it seize up at some point in the near future?
I thought about starting a new thread for this but figured I'd just get the old UTFSE ( which I already tried). And, yes, I'm sure I could
just order the appropriate vacuum pump oil but why dish out the extra cash if I really don't have to.Magpie - 4-10-2005 at 18:34
If you have a refrigeration worker equipment supply store (like Grainger, etc) you can pick up vacuum pump oil there.bio2 - 4-10-2005 at 18:54
.....s it absolutely necessary to use official vacuum pump oil in vacuum pumps?..........
No, low temp refrigeration oil such as in freezer compressors can also be used if mineral (petroleum) based. The ultimate vacuum is determined by
the oil vapor pressure which is lowest in oils specific for vacuum pumps.
............ Could I use, say, motor oil ..........
No, a thin mineral based oil w/o additives is required. Probably motor oil would overheat the pump due to the clearances being very close for the
viscosity common to even light weight motor oil.HydroCarbon - 14-9-2008 at 19:08
Bringin' this one back from the dead
I've heard that lots of PC components contain some valuable metals. Mainly copper, silver, and gold.
Anyone know anything about salvaging metals from PC parts?? or know any good techs or sites on the subject?12AX7 - 14-9-2008 at 20:05
Old computer stuff has a little gold and whatnot in it. REALLY old. Like, devoted collectors' basements old. Modern stuff is just barely economical
to recycle on an industrial level, nothing of interesting for an ameteur unfortunately.
TimMagpie - 26-10-2008 at 15:14
I'm running out of storage space for my chemicals and noticed I had about 1/2 lb of cut up magnesium anode from my old hot water heater. I couldn't
come up with any use for it and am ready to throw it out. I'm guessing it is an alloy of Mg so it likely wouldn't be good for Grignards.
Does anyone have any suggestions for using this sacrificial anode material?kclo4 - 26-10-2008 at 15:26
How small are the pieces cut up into?
Could be used for producing H2(maybe reductions?), or perhaps some sort of alkoxide?
You could also reduce things with it such as B2O3, or SiO2 maybe?
Have any need for various magnesium salts?
Send it to me f and leave me with this burden Magpie - 26-10-2008 at 15:34
Quote:
from kclo4:
How small are the pieces cut up into?
Could be used for producing H2(maybe reductions?), or perhaps some sort of alkoxide?
I have the rod cut up into 4" pieces. They fit well in a pint jar.
I like your suggestion for making H2. Why waste good mossy zinc when I could use this anode junk. 12AX7 - 26-10-2008 at 21:47
I think anodes are usually quite pure. After all, aluminum or silicon (possible incidential impurities) would reduce corrodability. Other elements
(copper?) are only added, and I see no reason why they would be present. The anode bits I've melted before were quite flammable, much more so than
the alloy magnesium I have. Clean 'em up and grig (pronounced "grin") away...
Timgrndpndr - 29-10-2008 at 02:24
Speaking of reclamation there was an unguarded suprerfund site 12miles west until about 10 years past.Consisting of a very large ww2-'60' munitions
depot post w/some 400 'Igloos' or steel reinforced storage bunkers filed w/all sorts of small arms to 8in arty shells-hand and rifle grenades as well
nearly all the US inventry at the time even mustard gas though denied there are the remnants of high temp furnaces and episodes of whole herds of
sheep/beef dying and government quickly reimbursing owners. Quality test equipment and what were referred to as burn pits to dispose of either
unfit/unneeded product.These were hauled to what was known as burn pits as a wat seems a halfharted, vain attempt to detonate all the explosives
deemed unsafe/surplus etc would pile the projectiles rfles grenades,40m aaa shells 105s,155s,8in and some typef a very heavy bomb either 500-1000lb or
more judging b the several hundred Lb remaining steel casngs ndicating likely low order explosions as they generally disposed of the ordance as
described.
Piling the ordnace into lare piles w/small charges or none at all and relying on thermite to ignite the explosives and resulting in deflagration then
detonation.Im sure I don't have to tell you many or most at least ignited but many also didnt detonate leaving unmelted W2 -60s HE intact in the
shells in a very arid enviroment with very llitle deterioration as the shells were often bulldozed into pits as soon as cooled.Staying undisturbed for
20-50yrs untill many began to erode back out of the gullys.The 155-8in shells actuallty used to be popular yard ornaments for homes in the 50s-60s.Im
not completely sure of everything that was buried out there.If youve ever been in the military thay could have bured anything! I had heard a fully
functioning jeep buried as motor pool idnt have the proper papperwork for the jeep! stranger things have happened like this burn pit and declared
supefund site due to unexploded ordnace and chemcontamination that for 30years had been unguarded except for a loclkless chain link fence, upon
driving up on the hill where the pitswere located flat tires had to be watched as the shrapnel was still quite sharp used fuse initers everywhere and
a walk around 100-120 acres yielded all calibers and conditions of large and smal ordnance.Most common being the 40mmAAA
w/o the nose fuses still in the original wood crates appearig to just need a cleaning and a fuse to detonate as the hadn been exposeed to heatIn
addittion of the countles 40mm there wer varous caches of 155-8in shells tough far rarer and no grenades or any RGs that I recall though not keen to
shovel about being a heavily used obviously carelessy used dsosalse for HE.
Today it makes me think of the Russ Mob discovering old battlesights with the w/metal detectors and other methods and mining the batlesights for HE
and rebuildable small arms.Since the Mide 90s he place has been cleaned and I believe at least located,Ifitwerentthe fact all the shells had
[Edited on 29-10-2008 by grndpndr]iHME - 31-10-2008 at 09:16
Oh thats cool, I would have gotten some munitions just for the kicks from there if I would have lived around it.
I have done some low level scavengin, my biggest score being houndreds of 1,44mb floppys and few houndred custom ic's.grndpndr - 12-11-2008 at 14:47
I did have some aquaintances who did use double boilers back then with some of what washed out of the burn pits just to show it was practical and the
quantities were there
and the product still good w/o any solvents /recrystalization.Melting points, deflagration/ decomp temps seemed correct?
